[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

[lasvegan]

It‘s a Felony E crime - exacerbated by the central issue at the core of the case - falsifying business records to conceal from voters that he had paid off a porn star to keep quiet about his alleged affair. Prosecutors said that this cover-up constituted 3 crimes: a New York State election law, a federal campaign finance statute, and a state tax law.

That elevated the charge of falsifying business records from a lower-level misdemeanour into a more serious felony.

The punishment is probation, fine or incarceration for each count but likely to run concurrently (rather than consecutively ) and there are also public policy considerations; ie cost of security and the risk of inviting political controversy - (the suspicion he was being incarcerated to influence election) that the judge might see as favouring a non-custodial sentence.

He will immediately lodge appeals of course (there are indeed some points of law that the defence brought up in trial (such as the vagueness of the statute) https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/05/acquit-trump-in-the-hush-money-case/

Appeals could take years to go through the various appellate courts, during which time he could serve a second term - Presidents are immune from custodial sentences as it is unconstitutional to prevent them from carrying out their Office. That doesn’t stop him from facing jail time once his term was over though.

The article you posted just points out that this whole case is a complete sham, orchestrated by his political rivals to interfere with his presidential campaign. How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments? It really beggars belief…

If this case had any merit it would have been brought up 8 years ago, but the FEC, DOJ, the previous NY D.A. agreed it had no substance. It will be reversed on appeal.

The D.A. is corrupt, the judge is corrupt, NY State is corrupt. What a sad state of affairs…

I’ve spent a lot of time on here defending the USA, but I’m gradually losing faith. You were right all along, the USA is currently a laughing stock. Roll on November 5.

 

[Mental Lental]

In all seriousness though, falsification of business records is a misdemeanor at most , it should never have been charged as a felony , he has been stitched up. And I'm betting he goes to jail.

Essentially the jury found:

• 1) Trump paid, and directed others to pay certain funds used to induce people to to either purchase rights to stories in order to bury them, or to not disclose what they saw or knew (this is legal)
• 2) The purpose of those funds was to prevent unfavorable news stories from reaching the public eye (also legal)
• 3) The purpose of attempting to prevent those unfavorable news stories from reaching the public eye was to influence the 2016 Presidential Election (ALSO legal)
• 4) Trump failed to disclose the spending of those funds, spent with the intent of influencing the 2016 Presidential Election to the Federal Election Commission (illegal, but that's a federal crime, and one the state of New York has no jurisdiction to prosecute over)
• 5) Trump doctored, or directed others to doctor, business records of his New York based business to hide the true purpose of those funds (this is a misdemeanor in the state of new york)
• 6) The purpose behind doctoring those records was to conceal the fact that Trump committed a crime by failing to report the payment of those funds to the FEC (the failure to do so is a federal crime)
• 7) Doctoring business records in NY for the purposes of concealing a crime (any crime, state or federal) elevates the misdemeanor to a felony
• 8) Trump did this 34 times.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The article you posted just points out that this whole case is a complete sham, orchestrated by his political rivals to interfere with his presidential campaign. How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments? It really beggars belief…

If this case had any merit it would have been brought up 8 years ago, but the FEC, DOJ, the previous NY D.A. agreed it had no substance. It will be reversed on appeal.

The D.A. is corrupt, the judge is corrupt, NY State is corrupt. What a sad state of affairs…

I’ve spent a lot of time on here defending the USA, but I’m gradually losing faith. You were right all along, the USA is currently a laughing stock. Roll on November 5.

You’ve mentioned “How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments?” before. This is absolute nonsense; he was charged at the beginning, 34 times in fact.

 

[Zeberdi]

You’ve mentioned “How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments?” before. This is absolute nonsense; he was charged at the beginning, 34 times in fact.

Lasvegas seems to be conflating the original charges of falsifying accounts with the underlying issue the Prosecution wanted to prove - that the 34 counts of financial misdemeanours on the indictment sheet were really about an overall pattern of election interference - aggravating issues which elevated the case to a Felony (which will be reflected in the punishment).

 

[Nobby]

The article you posted just points out that this whole case is a complete sham, orchestrated by his political rivals to interfere with his presidential campaign. How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments? It really beggars belief…

If this case had any merit it would have been brought up 8 years ago, but the FEC, DOJ, the previous NY D.A. agreed it had no substance. It will be reversed on appeal.

The D.A. is corrupt, the judge is corrupt, NY State is corrupt. What a sad state of affairs…

I’ve spent a lot of time on here defending the USA, but I’m gradually losing faith. You were right all along, the USA is currently a laughing stock. Roll on November 5.

And you’re a laughing stock too.

The problem is, it’s not actually very funny at all, in fact it’s bl**dy scary.

Our World is in a very bad place when total loons can gain control of it.

 

[Zeberdi]

Roll on November 5.

Ah yes, November 5

 

[nicko31]

He will be sentenced in early July, assume there isn’t a successful appeal he will receive a suspended sentence.

I expect Trump to get more and more extreme now, if he loses the election he will end up doing time.

Predictable fascist language from DT following the courts decision. Remember folks we have grifters and even elected MPs that support this guy.

 

[nicko31]

The article you posted just points out that this whole case is a complete sham, orchestrated by his political rivals to interfere with his presidential campaign. How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments? It really beggars belief…

If this case had any merit it would have been brought up 8 years ago, but the FEC, DOJ, the previous NY D.A. agreed it had no substance. It will be reversed on appeal.

The D.A. is corrupt, the judge is corrupt, NY State is corrupt. What a sad state of affairs…

I’ve spent a lot of time on here defending the USA, but I’m gradually losing faith. You were right all along, the USA is currently a laughing stock. Roll on November 5.

On the balance of probability probably 4 or 5 members of the jury voted for Trump in the last election.

 

[BadFish]

The article you posted just points out that this whole case is a complete sham, orchestrated by his political rivals to interfere with his presidential campaign. How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments? It really beggars belief…

If this case had any merit it would have been brought up 8 years ago, but the FEC, DOJ, the previous NY D.A. agreed it had no substance. It will be reversed on appeal.

The D.A. is corrupt, the judge is corrupt, NY State is corrupt. What a sad state of affairs…

I’ve spent a lot of time on here defending the USA, but I’m gradually losing faith. You were right all along, the USA is currently a laughing stock. Roll on November 5.

Voting Trump in and supporting his moves to become a dictator seems to be the only way forward.

While everything else rots he is the only pure and godly thing left in the country. . . Well, guns are godly too, Trump and guns, Jesus would approve.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The article you posted just points out that this whole case is a complete sham, orchestrated by his political rivals to interfere with his presidential campaign. How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments? It really beggars belief…

If this case had any merit it would have been brought up 8 years ago, but the FEC, DOJ, the previous NY D.A. agreed it had no substance. It will be reversed on appeal.

The D.A. is corrupt, the judge is corrupt, NY State is corrupt. What a sad state of affairs…

I’ve spent a lot of time on here defending the USA, but I’m gradually losing faith. You were right all along, the USA is currently a laughing stock. Roll on November 5.

Yes, we know, everyone is corrupt and everyone is lying.

Btw, why do you mention defending the US, the issue is with the unhinged Donald Trump and his pals, this is all. It’s isn’t an anti-US thing. Many of us have a lot of time for certain elements of your country. I for one admire a lot of US people, art and culture and some of your landscape is truly breathtaking and some cities are truly fascinating . It appeals on many levels. Some things do appall and puzzle me but I have visited many times, travelled around a lot and have enjoyed pretty much every second of it…..even Detroit !

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

You’ve mentioned “How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments?” before. This is absolute nonsense; he was charged at the beginning, 34 times in fact.

Tipical liberal bringing facts into it.
regards

DF

 

[Gazwag]

And you’re a laughing stock too.

The problem is, it’s not actually very funny at all, in fact it’s bl**dy scary.

Our World is in a very bad place when total loons can gain control of it.

Quite, and everybody knows if he gets in again there is zero risk of prison time as he will spend those 4 years making sure he changes all the rules to ensure he will always be president and when he dies his son will take over - assuming we all live to see that

 

[nicko31]

Yes, we know, everyone is corrupt and everyone is lying.

Btw, why do you mention defending the US, the issue is with the unhinged Donald Trump and his pals, this is all. It’s isn’t an anti-US thing. Many of us have a lot of time for certain elements of your country. I for one admire a lot of US people, art and culture and some of your landscape is truly breathtaking and some cities are truly fascinating . It appeals on many levels. Some things do appall and puzzle me but I have visited many times, travelled around a lot and have enjoyed pretty much every second of it…..even Detroit !

Fascinating country. Middle America can be one of the friendliest places on earth, but despite the internet bringing a world of information it’s more insular than ever.

I love visiting but could never live there

 

[Rookie]

The article you posted just points out that this whole case is a complete sham, orchestrated by his political rivals to interfere with his presidential campaign. How can you possibly defend a case when the actual charge isn’t brought up until the closing arguments? It really beggars belief…

If this case had any merit it would have been brought up 8 years ago, but the FEC, DOJ, the previous NY D.A. agreed it had no substance. It will be reversed on appeal.

The D.A. is corrupt, the judge is corrupt, NY State is corrupt. What a sad state of affairs…

I’ve spent a lot of time on here defending the USA, but I’m gradually losing faith. You were right all along, the USA is currently a laughing stock. Roll on November 5.

Surely not even a hard core Trump fan believes all this.

A jury of his peers has found him unanimously guilty of 34 charges. It doesn’t matter if the judge or the DA were corrupt (they aren’t), the jury made the decision. This is the US legal system in action, no one is above the law.

Trump and his legal team put together a pathetic defence of the charges. If he was innocent why not take the stand and say so?

 

[BadFish]

Surely not even a hard core Trump fan believes all this.

A jury of his peers has found him unanimously guilty of 34 charges. It doesn’t matter if the judge or the DA were corrupt (they aren’t), the jury made the decision. This is the US legal system in action, no one is above the law.

Trump and his legal team put together a pathetic defence of the charges. If he was innocent why not take the stand and say so?

No-one is above the law, however, Trump has managed to convince his followers that any verdicts against him are because of court corruption (even by judges he, himself appointed) and the breaking down of the US legal system.

I guess we wait for the appeal, of course the cultists will still not accept the result should it go against their divine leader.

 

[dwayne]

It‘s a Felony E crime - exacerbated by the central issue at the core of the case - falsifying business records to conceal from voters that he had paid off a porn star to keep quiet about his alleged affair. Prosecutors said that this cover-up constituted 3 crimes: a New York State election law, a federal campaign finance statute, and a state tax law.

That elevated the charge of falsifying business records from a lower-level misdemeanour into a more serious felony.

The punishment is probation, fine or incarceration for each count but likely to run concurrently (rather than consecutively ) and there are also public policy considerations; ie cost of security and the risk of inviting political controversy - (the suspicion he was being incarcerated to influence election) that the judge might see as favouring a non-custodial sentence.

He will immediately lodge appeals of course (there are indeed some points of law that the defence brought up in trial (such as the vagueness of the statute) https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/05/acquit-trump-in-the-hush-money-case/

Appeals could take years to go through the various appellate courts, during which time he could serve a second term - Presidents are immune from custodial sentences as it is unconstitutional to prevent them from carrying out their Office. That doesn’t stop him from facing jail time once his term was over though.

Will be interesting to see if he wins the appeal. I don't really care either way .... But I does feel like a stitch up, you have presidents that have waged illegal wars , CIA coups , spying on Americans and the first to get convicted is over essentially an NDA to a porn star lol. Only in America.

And the reason he has got done is because the NDA helped his political campaign. This could only have happened to trumpy pumpy.

 

[nicko31]

Will be interesting to see if he wins the appeal. I don't really care either way .... But I does feel like a stitch up, you have presidents that have waged illegal wars , CIA coups , spying on Americans and the first to get convicted is over essentially an NDA to a porn star lol. Only in America.

And the reason he has got done is because the NDA helped his political campaign. This could only have happened to trumpy pumpy.

The system is doing its job and holding up the law. Trump wants to break it to save him own skin

 

[Colonel Mustard]

In the real world, ex-Presidents don’t go to jail though do they? Isn’t it an unwritten rule? Will his state funded and guaranteed lifelong security detail share a cell with him? Not going to happen. Unfortunately.

He’s the first US president ever to be convicted of a felony so there’s no precedent. Apart from the seriousness of the offence you have to factor in his lack of contrition. I was listening to an interview with someone who’d spent many years working in the NY DA department, who said that post-conviction attitude counts for a lot when deciding sentence. Trump describing the judge as the most corrupt ever, and himself as the most innocent man in history, doesn’t sound like contrition to me.

 

[Rookie]

And before anyone says that the jury was corrupt, the juror that gets their news from Trump’s own echo chamber and also Twitter found him guilty

 

[Stato]

Will be interesting to see if he wins the appeal. I don't really care either way .... But I does feel like a stitch up, you have presidents that have waged illegal wars , CIA coups , spying on Americans and the first to get convicted is over essentially an NDA to a porn star lol. Only in America.

And the reason he has got done is because the NDA helped his political campaign. This could only have happened to trumpy pumpy.

The Supreme Cout, a number of which Trump appointed, are considering the question of immunity for acts done as part of the work of president. This has done him the favour of delaying one of the more serious cases against him, as he is arguing that trying to fix the election results so he could stay in power was an act of office. The examples you give of other presidents were done in office. This case was not delayed by this question as he wasn't president when he committed the crimes. However, it has been delayed as he couldn't be charged at the time his coconspirator was because he was in office. Your suggestion that this could only happen to Trump ignores that it also happened to Cohen who has already been found guilty and served actual prison time.