Teenagers Car Insurance

[Kinky Gerbil]

18 year old daughter just passed her driving test this morning and has money left to her by her gran to get a car.

I think we have missed the key point....

 

[beorhthelm]

Again, I'd have no problem with this providing the insurance companies actually look further into the underlying factors surrounding life expectancy in retirement age on a case by case basis. There is no reason why a woman (or healthy man) should pay for a fat berk who has not done any exercise over the years and has abused his body for years by eating fry-ups daily and drinking ridiculous quantities of alchohol 4 times a week, or whatever.

fair points, but we know thats not how insurance works. they catagorise in to nice big broad groups - male 17-21, women 40-50, non/smokers, units drank, family medical history (i wonder how that works for ophans, estranged families or those that just dont talk about that sort of thing). no one fits completly the "average" profile in the boxes but we all fit a box near enough. if we did have one to one consultation to arrange insurance, the fat chap would be uninsurable and the healthy wouldnt see any drop in insurance as the process would become more expensive to administer. though i dont think the mens longevity is to do with diet and exercise, its more to do with historic health due to occupation. i imagine in a generations time when few 60yo have spent a life down mines, on shipyards etc, the difference will be greatly reduced (theres hormonal/biological factor in play too).

 

[RM-Taylor]

Again, where is your evidence? Mind you, it's worth pointing out that this whole debate is only happening because dickheads like your son drive at 95 mph on the motorway, so if his premiums don't come down then it's perfecly justified.

I'm fully aware that they are going to go up a fair amount, not suprising really given my history.

 

[Notters]

Surely if they're banning descrimination by sex, they'll havwe to ban it by age too? (though not experience)

 

[beorhthelm]

Surely if they're banning descrimination by sex, they'll havwe to ban it by age too? (though not experience)

why not experience? its rather arbitrary at present anyway, based on years licence/insurance held than actual experince. a 22yo sales rep up and down the counrty all day every day, has more driving experince than a 32yo commuter how uses the car to go to the shops at and pop to the relatives on the occasional weekend. should be based on mileage per year, dont you think? yet the high mileage driver will pay more because they are (slightly) more likly to have an accident due to being on the road more...

just asying like as devils advocate.

 

[drew]

So you want to put caveats in for racial discrimination because you have to look much deeper for the actual reasons why it might happen, yet it's OK to just charge a much higher rate for males, even though that is blatent sexual discrimination?

. What are you talking about. I said that if there was statistical evidence then in theory maybe but there is no evidence as far as I am aware that states one ethnic group is worse than another.

Or alternatively (and fairly simply), you accept that everybody pays a fairly high rate when they start out, which then falls year on year when they don't make a claim nothing wrong with that. Prove your safe and you subsequently get rewarded with increased NCB. What is ludicrous is that you seem happy to accept that males should pay twice what females do, simply because of their sex. Are you saying there are NO dangerous female drivers? Are you saying that all males are dangerous drivers? Are you dumb or what. The statistics show that male youths have a higher risk factor in relation to having accidents and that on average their claims consist almost twice that of accidents involving girls. It is not saying every male driver will have an accident and it is not saying every female will not.

If your answer is no to either of them, then given your position, you won't fall about in mock indignation at the suggestion that black people should pay a tax on anything that could be used as a weapon because statistically they mug more people than white people do.

The last part isn't worthy of comment.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I have to ask Simster, apart from the factors already used by insurers, Gender, Age, Postcode, Mileage, Years of no claims, Car Isurance group and value what are these other factors that are easily obtainable and will identify excellent, responsible drivers like yourself from these Twunts in their souped up Corsas ?

 

[Simster]

. What are you talking about. I said that if there was statistical evidence then in theory maybe but there is no evidence as far as I am aware that states one ethnic group is worse than another.

"What are you talking about". I'm fairly sure I made my position reasonably literally - sorry you don't like it. Police crime stats can tell us which ethnic groups commit which types of crime or indeed are victims of types of crime. I'm fairly sure the evidence is out there.

The last part isn't worthy of comment.

Of course it isn't, because you can't answer it. Or more likely, are not prepared to because to do so honestly would fly in the face of your sexist argument.

I have to ask Simster, apart from the factors already used by insurers, Gender, Age, Postcode, Mileage, Car Isurance group and value what are these other factors that are easily obtainable and will identify excellent, responsible drivers like yourself from these Twunts in their souped up Corsas ?

Good question. Levels of education, maybe?

To be honest, I started out playing devils advocate rather than being on any mission against sexism, but as it has gone on, I'm beginning to think it has merit. In a world where the gender divide is increasingly blurred in many walks of life, I really find it hard to believe that people are quite so accepting of the huge difference in cost of insurance based on gender.

 

[drew]

I have to ask Simster, apart from the factors already used by insurers, Gender, Age, Postcode, Mileage, Years of no claims, Car Isurance group and value what are these other factors that are easily obtainable and will identify excellent, responsible drivers like yourself from these Twunts in their souped up Corsas ?

Next he'll be arguing that someone shouldn't have to pay a higher premium because they driver a Aston Martin rather than a Citroen C1.

 

[Simster]

Next he'll be arguing that someone shouldn't have to pay a higher premium because they driver a Aston Martin rather than a Citroen C1.

How does that follow? Or are you just acting the idiot because you can't make your point?

 

[drew]

"What are you talking about". I'm fairly sure I made my position reasonably literally - sorry you don't like it. Police crime stats can tell us which ethnic groups commit which types of crime or indeed are victims of types of crime. I'm fairly sure the evidence is out there.

Of course it isn't, because you can't answer it. Or more likely, are not prepared to because to do so honestly would fly in the face of your sexist argument.

Good question. Levels of education, maybe? I wonder what the statistics are for rich privately educated 17 year old boys driving their flash new motor are compared to state educated 17 year old boys scrapping together enough for a 10 year old 1.2 litre not so super mini?

To be honest, I started out playing devils advocate rather than being on any mission against sexism, but as it has gone on, I'm beginning to think it has merit. In a world where the gender divide is increasingly blurred in many walks of life, I really find it hard to believe that people are quite so accepting of the huge difference in cost of insurance based on gender.

I assume from your last comment that you don't accept any statistics relating to vehicle accidents or losses then. The other point to remember is that motor insurance is not a public service but private enterprise. Insurers, god bless them, are actually in it to make a profit.

 

[drew]

How does that follow? Or are you just acting the idiot because you can't make your point?

Thought it was perfectly clear but to make it easier. You choose to ignore actuarial evidence to suit your argument that the sexes should be treated exactly the same so why should you take into account other factors that load insurance premiums.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I have supplied Insurance systems to companies over the years and trust me, the reasons for those factors being used is because they are easily and cheaply available and allow a good level of risk assessment to give a profit. If it's a question of Discrimination or Profit, you know which will win.

If you have any other factors that would improve the risk assessment and therefor profitability, i know of a number of companies who would be interested. Who knows, you could have an exciting career ahead of you as an actuary

 

[Simster]

I have supplied Insurance systems to companies over the years and trust me, the reasons for those factors being used is because they are easily and cheaply available and allow a good level of risk assessment to give a profit. If it's a question of Discrimination or Profit, you know which will win.

If you have any other factors that would improve the risk assessment and therefor profitability, i know of a number of companies who would be interested. Who knows, you could have an exciting career ahead of you as an actuary

lolz.

Mind you, I'd quite like the cash. The actuaries I know are MINTED.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I once knew an outgoing actuary. He stared at your shoes when he talked to you

 

[Mammoth]

I worked in motor underwriting years ago until just as internet sales were being trialled, and its worth noting that insurers used to discount to new customers and make money by stinging people who renewed without quibbling the premium. Thanks to those accursed meerkats, the insurers have not been able to continue profiting from this trick, and this is one of many reasons why motor premiums for new customers has risen too, although the main reason is and will remain third party liability claims.

 

[Gangsta]

Having worked in Financial Services since 1989 I have met a few actuaries in my time and been less than impressed. They are solely responsible for all the main With Profits funds having f**ked up over the last 10 years. With regard to annuity companies using other information, they already do. You don't have to accept a standard annuity quote any more as there is a secondary market of "impaired life annuities". If you have medical or lifestyle issues that may deem you to peg out quicker than the rest of us, you get a better rate. Like life assurance you have to offer detailed info on your medical history etc.

 

[Marc]

what GRINDS MY GEARS about car insuarnce companies is that the fuckers now ask "Have you been involved in a claim that was'nt your fault?", if you say YES they bump the f***ing price up even if it did'nt affect your no claims bonus.....thats bloody DISGUSTING IMO, fuckers should be found out about this by WATCHDOG or something.

 

[Mammoth]

Marc I totally agree
Even worse than that, my old underwriting guidelines used to take into account (and load premiums) non fault losses which were not even claimed for- ouch!

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I'm fully aware that they are going to go up a fair amount, not surprising really given my history.

your first ever 3 points for speeding last week