*Stockport may have points deducted THIS season*

[sten_super]

It'll make no difference next season either if they accumulate 60 points, thus finishing safe on 50.

deduct places, not points, that will sort Leicester out. Or just automatically relegate them. Or do nothing, because what has administration got to do with footballing performance anyway. (i know i know, Leicester and Leeds took advantage of the law, not that its done them much good in the long run).

But the point is if you take the points off next season there's a least a possibility that it will affect them; taking them off this season GUARANTEES that they will not make a difference.

I can't believe you are actually suggesting doing nothing, and saying administration has got nothing to do with footballing performance. To say that it did Leeds and Leicester no good is complete ignorance of the facts.

Leicester were able to gain promotion to the Premiership in the same season that they went into administration; from the wikipedia entry;
'Some of the reasons were the loss of TV money (ITV Digital, itself in administration, had promised money to First Division clubs for TV rights), the large wage bill, lower than expected fees for players transferred to other clubs and the £37 million cost of the new stadium.'
So having a shiny new ground and paying an excessive wage bill is 'nothing to do with footballing performance'?

Leeds, at the same time, were able to enter administration, leave it, then get their hands on the season ticket money for the new season and spunk it on a (for League 1) all-star team that got them to the play-off final and subsequently guaranteed them decent media coverage and reputation in order to continue to attract good players. Nothing to do with footballing performance?

Just because these two clubs aren't doing particularly well at the moment doesn't excuse the behaviour; imagine where they would be if Leicester hadn't been promoted in 2003, or Leeds hadn't reached the play off final? It all makes a difference, and they have benefitted from playing the system. Quite how you can justify not wanting them punished for that I don't know.

 

[trueblue]

That rule really doesn't make much sense then.
If the club goes into administration but its squad was strong enough to steer itself 10+ pts away from the drop, then unless they miss out on promotion/playoffs the deduction is completely MEANINGLESS, and no punishment at all.

On the flip side, if the club is proper f***ed on the playing side and gets relegated, then not only have they suffered dropping a division, but they also get the double-whammy of kicking off on -10 the following season.

Thats STUPID, that is.

Agreed. What an absolutely ridiculous ruling. So clearly the message is this: if you're in financial trouble, spunk as much money as you can borrow on decent players so that you're in a comfortable league position and, at worst, you won't get into the play-offs when it all goes tits up. It doesn't matter about the debt anyway because you'll only be paying it back at 10p in the pound or similar, and by staying in a higher division you're a much better investment for any potential buyers when the club starts all over again.

Or you can struggle along, trying to stay within your means but consequently getting relegated - and then be virtually guaranteed another relegation the following season. It's madness.

Nothing against Stockport at all, as they don't seem to have deliberately played the system, but really ALL clubs that go into administration should just face automatic relegation. This would also ultimately harm the fans less, as they're not sentenced to watching a meaningless season that's been ruined by a points deduction before it even starts.

Sounds harsh, but then any club that goes into administration has been living beyond its means in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage (for the same reason, I have no sympathy at all for Luton).

Of course, it could happen to us one day - but the more it happens, the more football clubs will be forced to get a grip on reality, and not leave others footing the bill when they go bust.

 

[drew]

But the point is if you take the points off next season there's a least a possibility that it will affect them; taking them off this season GUARANTEES that they will not make a difference.

I can't believe you are actually suggesting doing nothing, and saying administration has got nothing to do with footballing performance. To say that it did Leeds and Leicester no good is complete ignorance of the facts.

Leicester were able to gain promotion to the Premiership in the same season that they went into administration; from the wikipedia entry;
'Some of the reasons were the loss of TV money (ITV Digital, itself in administration, had promised money to First Division clubs for TV rights), the large wage bill, lower than expected fees for players transferred to other clubs and the £37 million cost of the new stadium.'
So having a shiny new ground and paying an excessive wage bill is 'nothing to do with footballing performance'?

Leeds, at the same time, were able to enter administration, leave it, then get their hands on the season ticket money for the new season and spunk it on a (for League 1) all-star team that got them to the play-off final and subsequently guaranteed them decent media coverage and reputation in order to continue to attract good players. Nothing to do with footballing performance?

Just because these two clubs aren't doing particularly well at the moment doesn't excuse the behaviour; imagine where they would be if Leicester hadn't been promoted in 2003, or Leeds hadn't reached the play off final? It all makes a difference, and they have benefitted from playing the system. Quite how you can justify not wanting them punished for that I don't know.

Totally agree.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

But the point is if you take the points off next season there's a least a possibility that it will affect them; taking them off this season GUARANTEES that they will not make a difference.

I can't believe you are actually suggesting doing nothing, and saying administration has got nothing to do with footballing performance. To say that it did Leeds and Leicester no good is complete ignorance of the facts.

Leicester were able to gain promotion to the Premiership in the same season that they went into administration; from the wikipedia entry;
'Some of the reasons were the loss of TV money (ITV Digital, itself in administration, had promised money to First Division clubs for TV rights), the large wage bill, lower than expected fees for players transferred to other clubs and the £37 million cost of the new stadium.'
So having a shiny new ground and paying an excessive wage bill is 'nothing to do with footballing performance'?

Leeds, at the same time, were able to enter administration, leave it, then get their hands on the season ticket money for the new season and spunk it on a (for League 1) all-star team that got them to the play-off final and subsequently guaranteed them decent media coverage and reputation in order to continue to attract good players. Nothing to do with footballing performance?

Just because these two clubs aren't doing particularly well at the moment doesn't excuse the behaviour; imagine where they would be if Leicester hadn't been promoted in 2003, or Leeds hadn't reached the play off final? It all makes a difference, and they have benefitted from playing the system. Quite how you can justify not wanting them punished for that I don't know.

Don't put words in my mouth, was just putting forward one of several points of view. Leicester certainly shafted the system, although whether they planned it that way I don't know. Companies can get in trouble for all sorts of reasons of course and some will go bust. But a points deduction? In reality Leicester and Leeds both went bust and should have had to drop out of the league. But the League fudged it by simply putting a points deduction in place and allowing the 'new' clubs to take the old clubs place. (probably not a bad thing of course, that would be some big fanbases disenfranchised).

 

[sten_super]

Sorry, I got a bit carried away. But for me going back to the old system of not punishing them at all is a point of view with no merit at all; I was looking to discredit what I'd hope you'd agree is a pretty silly viewpoint.

It doesn't ultimately matter if they planned it any which way; the point is Leicester got away scot-free. And what angers me is that, despite bringing in this punishment, Stockport have now done exactly the same thing (I accept not of their own volition).

I accept that the points deduction is a complete fudge by the FA. The exiting of administration without a CVA is another complete fudge. They need to accept that HMRC will now routinely oppose any CVA, and lump the two penalties together, ideally into a relegation punishment. We want competitive leagues, not a league in which some teams start with a crazy handicap.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

It appears that a further points deduction is looming as SCFC need to come out of administration without a cva before the start of the 90/10 season. Looks likely they will be on -15 before a ball is kicked.