[Politics] Starmer v Sunak *** Official Match Thread ***

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't know if we acted first but fair point if that is true. Harry WIlson says we were third.

If Sunak wants to champion his furlough scheme though he needs to champion the fact that these measures were wracked with fraud and croynism at the taxpayers expense. Fraud quadrupled during this time under his watch which we had to foot the bill for.

Indeed.

Sunk is a bright glib well-educated family-first chancer. If that fills a voter with vim, vigour and hope for the future, then you are an old voter, with the mortgage paid, a good pension and not a care in the world apart from those pesky boat people, those Muslims and all that hip hop racket.

And you* can f*** off because there are other people out there who are struggling.

*not you @Mike Small obviously. I mean....them...those...complacent narrow....bores.

 

[zefarelly]

And the weirdo has given you his 'ironic' thumbs up. Here is a clue (below) what to do (and it works only partially as he keeps popping up in my timeline, being called out for his hopelessness by respected posters like yourself).

View attachment 183474

Is that a double negative special? Or a triple lock needs?

 

[Bodian]

I think we acted first. And it wasn’t the go to policy, there was barely a precedent in history.

UK lockdown announced one day, Furlough the next day.

Many disagreed with it btw eg pandemic deniers, the right wing, anti tax alliances, small government weirdo’s.

Not the first - but pretty much in conjunction with others.

Announced on 20 March, came into effect later - first paid in May.

Spain introduced it on 17 March, Switzerland announced theirs 13 March.

Ireland made their first payments on 27 March.

As to precedents - many countries actually already had a form of 'job-retention scheme' in place before covid, to deal with the recession (such as Germany & Italy), and these were just adapted. Norway's adaptations came into effect on 20 March, Sweden 16 March.

https://www.etui.org/publications/job-retention-schemes-europe

 

[AZ Gull]

No, we were third, along with 5 other nations. Looks like 'EU chat' involved. Italy was where Covid landed first in Europe. Anyone might think there was an established plan in place.

View attachment 183473

Why on earth would somebody make a chart and differentiate between the two distinct categories by using a slightly different shade OF THE SAME COLOUR?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just said on Newsnight that Starmer may’ve very deliberately not answered the £2k question, because there’s substance in greater higher taxes to fund all the pledges (beyond schools VAT).

We’re not party to the traps they’re laying for each other for later in the campaign.

Sounds good.

He who finishes first at the last finishes first, not he who blags an early lead. In a poll about a TV debate that was watched by people who watch...... ITV. FFS. ITV

 

[pocketseagull]

 

[Berty23]

Starmer messed up the 2k rebuttal. He simply had to say “that is not true. That is a fictional number made up by Tory special advisers”

Rishi said it was calculations of independent civil servants. What actually happens is civil servants are told to make all sorts of wild assumptions by special advisers and this is then presented as the cost of opposition policy. I am quite surprised civil servants are allowed to be used in this way.

 

[Simster]

That, for me, was a draw and Rishi needed all 3 points.

It seemed to me that the producers had a word with Etchingham at half time and told her to let it flow a bit better. Second half was an easier watch than the first.

I think Rishi did as well as he possibly could but it is obvious he was under instruction to tell viewers you can't trust Labour on tax, even if there isn't any evidence tax will riise under Labour for ordinary people.

I think the winners tonight were the Lib Dems and Reform UK. After watching that voters may be more receptive to listening to other options.

I've mentioned it before but Labour are now conditioned to not give anything away when they are ahead in the polls.

In 2019 we saw them fully cost their spending plans in their manifesto - only to have it picked apart by our "fair and balanced" free press, Meanwhile the Tories manifesto was a pamphlet with as much policy and economic detail as you might expect to read in a Millwall match day magazine.

So now Labour won't provide detail because it'll be unreasonably ripped apart by the press, and the Cons don't either because, well, they don't have to. Today's debate is a result of that I'm afraid.

Starmer really disappointed me with his lack of answers on the pension tax and immigration in particular, but I'm not surprised he's keeping his cards close to his chest.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is that a double negative special? Or a triple lock needs?

It is a timeloop that only the mortal enemy of The Doctor could engineer. And only for so long

 

[Weststander]

I'm mo

Just to mention, the 1st politician to mention a furlough scheme was John McDonnell

I always had him down as far more intelligent than Corbyn. Once it went belly up in Dec 2019, McDonnell revealed a new non-lectern thumping persona, an interesting contributor.

Whilst Magic Grandpa carried on with preaching in echo chambers.

 

[Machiavelli]

Just said on Newsnight that Starmer may’ve very deliberately not answered the £2k question, because there’s substance in greater higher taxes to fund all the pledges (beyond schools VAT).

We’re not party to the traps they’re laying for each other for later in the campaign.

Me no understand.

 

[jcdenton08]

I always had him down as far more intelligent than Corbyn. Once it went belly up in Dec 2019, McDonnell revealed a new non-lectern thumping persona, an interesting contributor.

Whilst Magic Grandpa carried on with preaching in echo chambers.

I quite liked McDonnell too.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why on earth would somebody make a chart and differentiate between the two distinct categories by using a slightly different shade OF THE SAME COLOUR?

So as to not confuse the colour blind?

Anyway....good point. Perhaps you could recapitulate the data using one of your spread sheets?

 

[Bodian]

Why on earth would somebody make a chart and differentiate between the two distinct categories by using a slightly different shade OF THE SAME COLOUR?

Indeed. Would have benefitted from some ORANGE.

 

[Dick Head]

Personally I think we’d learn far more from a 1v1 interview with a proper political journo (whoever is Paxman these days, Emily Maitlis?) to press them on the actual issues without a lot of squabbling, but that’s probably not good telly

Ooh! Ooh! With armchairs and pipes! I'd be all over that.

 

[Bodian]

Me no understand.

With your user name I thought you'd immediately understand the purpose of laying sneaky cunning traps to catch the opponents out in later debates!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've mentioned it before but Labour are now conditioned to not give anything away when they are ahead in the polls.

In 2019 we saw them fully cost their spending plans in their manifesto - only to have it picked apart by our "fair and balanced" free press, Meanwhile the Tories manifesto was a pamphlet with as much policy and economic detail as you might expect to read in a Millwall match day magazine.

So now Labour won't provide detail because it'll be unreasonably ripped apart by the press, and the Cons don't either because, well, they don't have to. Today's debate is a result of that I'm afraid.

Starmer really disappointed me with his lack of answers on the pension tax and immigration in particular, but I'm not surprised he's keeping his cards close to his chest.

This.

He may look bad on occasion as Sunk screams at him to answer the question, but so it goes.

Sometimes you have to pass back to the keeper a bit. Being ahead when the final whistle blows is what get you elected.

 

[London Irish]

The debates are grandstanding sh1t, always have been, an Americanisation.

Andrew Neil was brilliant conducting the 1v1’s.

Taken for a mug by the Tories and Johnson in 2019 tho. I don’t think it keeps him awake at night tho

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

With your user name I thought you'd immediately understand the purpose of laying sneaky cunning traps to catch the opponents out in later debates!

Maybe he had an Italian ice cream van man when he was a lad called (you can guess the rest).

Apologies @Machiavelli, you fine fellow, for my weak joke. Weak jokes are the herbal tea of life.

 

[Pevenseagull]

I quite liked McDonnell too.

I f***ing didn't.

but each to their own.


JMD dropped an ideological banger that was #11 Downing Street would be turned over to Syrian asylum seekers for housing rather than him.

He didn't define which side of the conflict in Syria it was.