Some hard truths for the UKIP supporters...

[cunning fergus]

Again I do not disagree on this, some EU countries were totally reckless in their borrowing

That is as maybe, however the "system" behind the euro allowed those countries to borrow recklessly in the first place.

This dynamic is not dissimilar to how the UK Govt encouraged reckless lending from consumers and companies in the years before 2008; you can blame the borrower (and rightly so) but you have to equally look at the system that allowed the borrowing to happen.

If a national Govt was responsible for the kind of carnage that was caused by the rank incompetency of the EU bureaucrats/politicians decision to create (and then manage) the euro they would never be elected by an electorate again.

Its little wonder they treat the electorate with contempt.......we deserve it.

 

[Beach Hut]

That is as maybe, however the "system" behind the euro allowed those countries to borrow recklessly in the first place.

This dynamic is not dissimilar to how the UK Govt encouraged reckless lending from consumers and companies in the years before 2008; you can blame the borrower (and rightly so) but you have to equally look at the system that allowed the borrowing to happen.

If a national Govt was responsible for the kind of carnage that was caused by the rank incompetency of the EU bureaucrats/politicians decision to create (and then manage) the euro they would never be elected by an electorate again.

Its little wonder they treat the electorate with contempt.......we deserve it.

You are totally correct as rule put in place were breached to meet the criteria for the single currency which was a disgraceful act of irresponsibility that became much clearer when the credit crunch arrived.

 

[cunning fergus]

UKIP seems extremely popular in the middle class, middle England over 65's. The group that probably have benefited from Europe more than anyone else.

Its a sort of hybrid between a Victor Meldrew party and a Middle Class BNP...

The popularity amongst over 65s is quite a telling point don't you think?

These people are from the generations that took part in the fight (or grew up with people that did) to maintain this country's independence in the face of a fascist power that was dominating Europe.

The greatest irony is that these souls are now being castigated as nazis and racists for having the temerity to vote for a Democratic Party by people from generations who never even took part in that struggle.

Lest we forget? Don't make laugh.

 

[cunning fergus]

You are totally correct as rule put in place were breached to meet the criteria for the single currency which was a disgraceful act of irresponsibility that became much clearer when the credit crunch arrived.

I know, and yet despite your understanding of the failures too, you retain faith in the "system" and the same individuals that created the mess to now make the right decisions that will generate economic success (with the UK balls deep in the enterprise).

Given the litany of economic failure associated with the EU, the maddest b*st*rds in these discussions are those that say everything is ok and advocate we stay on the bus.

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

Good point, ignoring them didn't work did it ? Smearing seems to be improving their potential share of the vote, I wonder what the next tactic will be.

 

[Beach Hut]

I know, and yet despite your understanding of the failures too, you retain faith in the "system" and the same individuals that created the mess to now make the right decisions that will generate economic success (with the UK balls deep in the enterprise).

Given the litany of economic failure associated with the EU, the maddest b*st*rds in these discussions are those that say everything is ok and advocate we stay on the bus.

My personal view is perhaps more to do with work however we live in a democracy, thankfully, which allows me an opinion.

 

[ditchy]

This is why I believe you are naïve idiots:

Some top priority policies from your lot:

Scrapping paid maternity leave
Raising income tax for the poorest 88% of Britons

















Scrapping your holiday entitlement
Fast tracking privatisation of the NHS
Cancelling all planned house building
Abandoning all action on climate change
Cancelling bank regulations
Abolishing the laws that protect your human rights
Making it legal for a man to rape or assault his wife
Cutting education spending
Buying 3 aircraft carriers (I know wtf?)

Bore off Nibble go and watch the Eurovision or something

 

[cunning fergus]

My personal view is perhaps more to do with work however we live in a democracy, thankfully, which allows me an opinion.

You have an opinion, whether we live in a democracy is moot............

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/care_about_democracy_then_smash_the_eu/14525

 

[Beach Hut]

You have an opinion, whether we live in a democracy is moot............

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/care_about_democracy_then_smash_the_eu/14525

Would you prefer North Korea then..........

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

The British are xenophobic by nature. There's a reason. We've spent the last 1,000 years fighting or saving every other country in Europe at one time or another..some times all at once it seems.

Our view is that, having built a global empire, won countless wars and survived existential threats posed by the other large powers in Europe that we are better judges than they of our destiny.

The fact that we did most of these things on our own, without relying on someone in Brussels or Strasbourg to give us the OK suggests that we are perfectly sensible and less likely than some to start murdering Jews oo invading neutral countries if we're left to our own devices.

It's a sort of practical xenophobia based on damned good evidence. The European union is largely a construct of French fear of Germany and German guilt for Nazism...neither of these are the fault of the UK. But we are involved nonetheless.

That said. We are nowhere near the point where we should unilaterally flounce. If we absolutely had too we should but it's not yet time. We just need to do what the others do if we don't like something. Ignore it. If we decided to control inward migration then I think the others would sympathise, if we ignored a law or too...so what? As long as it keeps us, the third largest economy in the union, on board.

 

[cunning fergus]

Would you prefer North Korea then..........

Let me get this right.............I bemoan the lack of democracy in the UK and the EU, and you deduce that means I want to live I totalitarian North Korea?

 

[Leighgull]

The British are xenophobic by nature. There's a reason. We've spent the last 1,000 years fighting or saving every other country in Europe at one time or another..some times all at once it seems.

Our view is that, having built a global empire, won countless wars and survived existential threats posed by the other large powers in Europe that we are better judges than they of our destiny.

The fact that we did most of these things on our own, without relying on someone in Brussels or Strasbourg to give us the OK suggests that we are perfectly sensible and less likely than some to start murdering Jews oo invading neutral countries if we're left to our own devices.

It's a sort of practical xenophobia based on damned good evidence. The European union is largely a construct of French fear of Germany and German guilt for Nazism...neither of these are the fault of the UK. But we are involved nonetheless.

That said. We are nowhere near the point where we should unilaterally flounce. If we absolutely had too we should but it's not yet time. We just need to do what the others do if we don't like something. Ignore it. If we decided to control inward migration then I think the others would sympathise, if we ignored a law or too...so what? As long as it keeps us, the third largest economy in the union, on board.

This. How dare you come on here with your well thought through argument!

 

[Beach Hut]

Let me get this right.............I bemoan the lack of democracy in the UK and the EU, and you deduce that means I want to live I totalitarian North Korea?

Just pointing out where a democracy does not exist and whether you would be happy there, don't forget your note book.

 

[cunning fergus]

Just pointing out where a democracy does not exist and whether you would be happy there, don't forget your note book.

Got it.

In your view, any credible criticism of the EU's lack of democracy is largely irrelevant as it is not as bad as North Korea.

I won't argue with that devastating analysis..............I don't know what you do for a living but I think you should seriously consider a career in customer service, (particularly in complaints).

Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

People really need to start connecting the dots and look a bit deeper in to our relationship with the EU. The problem is not trading, never has been. If Germany pulled out of the EU tomorrow people are not going to immediately stop buying BMW's, Audi, Mercedes are they now. Why do they keep using this argument all the time, it's used to divert our attentions away from the real problem, and that problem is open borders, let's be honest, before this the EU worked for everyone.

Open borders allowing people to travel between countries legally in the EU zone is only part of our problems now, what about the hundreds of thousands of people who are arriving in the EU illegally every year. The people camping out in Calais hanging on to lorries trying to get here, the thousands of people making their way to Lampadusa every year and other countries in the EU zone is just further proof of what a mess the whole system has become.

Farage is right, the door is open to millions of people. The sooner people wake up to this the better. This is not xenophobic, it's the truth.

Where is everybody going to live, is everybody going to find a job, what about our services. All the questions the three main parties should be asking. We have all got to live at the end of the day.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

The most convincing post for a UKIP vote yet.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

People really need to start connecting the dots and look a bit deeper in to our relationship with the EU. The problem is not trading, never has been. If Germany pulled out of the EU tomorrow people are not going to immediately stop buying BMW's, Audi, Mercedes are they now. Why do they keep using this argument all the time, it's used to divert our attentions away from the real problem, and that problem is open borders, let's be honest, before this the EU worked for everyone.

Open borders allowing people to travel between countries legally in the EU zone is only part of our problems now, what about the hundreds of thousands of people who are arriving in the EU illegally every year. The people camping out in Calais hanging on to lorries trying to get here, the thousands of people making their way to Lampadusa every year and other countries in the EU zone is just further proof of what a mess the whole system has become.

Farage is right, the door is open to millions of people. The sooner people wake up to this the better. This is not xenophobic, it's the truth.

Where is everybody going to live, is everybody going to find a job, what about our services. All the questions the three main parties should be asking. We have all got to live at the end of the day.

Excellent. I wonder who was responsible for declaring open borders... Take one man (Does not matter what his nationality is) who crosses the border to the UK,he wants his wife and family with him,say two kids... that one is now four,the parents would also like to bring their parents...now we are eight,they have to be housed,then they have to have schools,doctors, and if they do not have a job then unemployment pay. I still cannot see the benefit of belonging to the EU,we are the second highest contributor to the corrupt Brussels 'government'. Start by getting out of the CHR....Mickey Mouse aspiring judges.

 

[Leighgull]

Just pointing out where a democracy does not exist and whether you would be happy there, don't forget your note book.

Speaking as an independent.you made yourself look a right tit there. Whatever fleeting concern I may have felt for your EU linked job is fast evaporating as you are, seemingly, too dense to trust with sharp pencils let alone a wage and responsibilities.

 

[Buzzer]

The British are xenophobic by nature.

Disagree. We're damned suspicious of Johnny Foreigner by nature and definitely inward-looking and the island mentality isn't just a trite cliche but we're definitely NOT xenophobic compared even with most Europeans. We're one of the most accommodating, tolerant nations in the world and we've always been a haven for political extremists, dissidents and those who've been oppressed in their own country. As a rule, we don't tend to do political extremism and we can be very proud of all of the above.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

For this reason alone, he shouldn't be elected as the guy is clearly bad luck. Not only did he have a crash on the last election day he now seems to have had a plane crash in a helicopter! I suspect he'll never fly again.

plane crash then.