So, are you a Racist?

[berkshire seagull]

Yes i am a racist cu-nt like most of britain,just most are scared to say it

 

[London Irish]

In today's situation, we have nothing to fear from Hindus, Jews or Sikhs, but plenty of reasons to criticise and oppose fundamentalist Islam.

Rubbish - we must criticise the fundamentalism of all religions rather than just unthinkingly go along with the current scapegoating of Islam.

The most notorious example of religious censorship (the anti Jerry Springer the Opera Christian fanatics didn't succeed although they had a damn good try) over the past year in Britain has been this, and it wasn't Islam:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4170297.stm

 

[London Irish]

Re: Re: So, are you a Racist?

I don't think LI was saying criticising religion was the same as racism. I think his point was that muslims in Europe are a relatively powerless minority and that legitimate criticism of the reactionary nature of religion can be used to cloak other agendas.

Exactly - thank you. I'd respect contributions like Gulliver's Travels' more if he wasn't trying to misrepresent my views.

I don't need any lectures from anyone about opposing religious fundamentalism, I was a member and wrote articles for a defence campaign for Salman Rushdie when he was threatened by the facists inside his own community.

But the cartoonist accusing Mohammed of being a terrorist was not promoting either art or satire, he was indulging in a crude Goebbels-like racist smear.

 

[e77]

But better is more expensive. So they recruit cheap.....

True, but it isn't the employee's fault their employer has low standards.

 

[The British National Party]

Yes i am a racist cu-nt like most of britain,just most are scared to say it

The Government and it's politically correct brigade are the racists. This is how the police deal with Muslims and white people.

Fancy a cuppa mate, just let them get on with it.

don't look at me like that, arrest him, he's to posh and quite, throw him in the van!!

Pull those pictures down you're not doing that around here sunshines and it's christmas. Last 3 minutes of this clip and the police move in.

 

[sullyupthewing]

Re: Re: Re: So, are you a Racist?

Eaxctly - thank you. I'd respect contributions like Gulliver's Travels' more if he wasn't trying to misrepresent my views.

I don't need any lectures from anyone about opposing religious fundamentalism, I was a member and wrote articles for a defence campaign for Salman Rushdie when he was threatened by the facists inside his own community.

But the cartoonist accusing Mohammed of being a terrorist was not promoting either art or satire, he was indulging in a crude Goebbels-like racist smear.

Utter bolloxs mate the cartoonist was taking the piss, f***ing funny I thought, and yes I am a racist just like everyone else.

 

[somerset]

Re: Re: So, are you a Racist?

The most notorious example of religious censorship (the anti Jerry Springer the Opera Christian fanatics didn't succeed although they had a damn good try) over the past year in Britain has been this, and it wasn't Islam:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4170297.stm

....... or maybe the Sikh opposition in Birmingham of a play written by a Sikh, about Sikh life, which actually did succeed in closing the show...... but perhaps you are not allowed to mention bigotry by non-white elements of our society.

 

[TSB]

I am going out with a beautiful Asian woman so NO.

And i am seeing US' beautiful asian girlfriend so no

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Re: Re: Re: So, are you a Racist?

Eaxctly - thank you. I'd respect contributions like Gulliver's Travels' more if he wasn't trying to misrepresent my views.

But the cartoonist accusing Mohammed of being a terrorist was not promoting either art or satire, he was indulging in a crude Goebbels-like racist smear.

Racist smear? See, there you go again! That 'exploding prophet' cartoon is ridiculing mad Islamic fundamentalism, not a race per se. Only a simpleton would infer that Mohammed (PBUH) was himself being depicted as a terrorist. The more subtle interpretation is that it was a warped interpretation of his ancient, pick'n'mix ramblings that was the proudly declared inspiration for all - yes, that's right, ALL - of the suicide bombers so far to have blown out of the woodwork. The exploding Jihadi is a peculiarly Islamic fixation.

Come on, LI. Admit it. When it comes to fundamentalism, Islam - oppressive, misogynist, homophobic, cruel and totalitarian when exercised by governments - stands in a league of its own.

Other cartoons - that so few people have actually seen for themselves - were more subtle, especially the one showing the prophet blindfolded by a woman's veil cutout. Subtext: if Muslim men, with all those uncontrollable lusts, were blindfolded, then their women would have no need for veils.

For even more defamatory, anti-religious cartoons, why not take a look at those many Arab newspapers that regularly characterise all Jews as hook-nosed Shylock usurers...

For a reminder of what the fuss is about, plus some bonus Islamic images of Mohammed - again, try this. Ooh look, offensive cartoons

 

[Lord Bracknell]

From Catch 22:-

'What the hell are you getting so upset about?' he asked her bewilderedly in a tone of contrite amusement. 'I thought you didn't believe in God.'

'I don't,' she sobbed, bursting violently into tears. 'But the God I don't believe in is a good God, a just God, a merciful God. He's not the mean and stupid God you make Him out to be.'

Yossarian laughed and turned her arms loose. 'Let's have a little more religious freedom between us,' he proposed obligingly. 'You don't believe in the God you want to, and I won't believe in the God I want to. Is that a deal?'

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Or, to put it another way ...

What's wrong with respecting the fact that most Muslims are genuinely deeply offended by any graphic representation of the prophet?

 

[somerset]

Or, to put it another way ...

What's wrong with respecting the fact that most Muslims are genuinely deeply offended by any graphic representation of the prophet?

...unless it is an image by a Muslim as illustrated quite well in Gulliver's link.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

...unless it is an image by a Muslim as illustrated quite well in Gulliver's link.

That's precisely the point that is made in Catch 22.

Gilliver's argument - that images of the prophet are acceptable to Muslims - ONLY makes sense if you embrace a sectarian position within Islam.

And, knowing that Gilliver does not embrace such a position, I simply judge his argument as ill-informed clever-dickery that does nothing to advance the cause of understanding.

 

[defrocked priest]

I must be since I hate everyone.

I only Love and of course

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Or, to put it another way ...

What's wrong with respecting the fact that most Muslims are genuinely deeply offended by any graphic representation of the prophet?

Nothing! Christian vicars are often deeply offended by jokes about Jesus and believers in Father Christmas may well burst into tears on being told he doesn't exist. But that doesn't entitle them to start burning government buildings or chopping off people's heads. Religious beliefs are just that - beliefs. Being deeply held doesn't make them automatically immune to criticism, or even ridicule. Taking that on board is the price of entry into an open, liberal democracy.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

And an open, liberal democracy should be sensitive to the fact that these cartoons offend most Muslims.

In all the debate, I see little evidence of that being the case.

 

[The British National Party]

What does it say in the Koran about drug dealing, I hope they carry out what they preach on their own kind

 

[Stumpy Tim]

And i am seeing US' beautiful asian girlfriend so no

And I'm marrying a Malaysian

We should have our own club

 

[chip]

And these sorts of cartoon don't upset Jews?

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

And an open, liberal democracy should be sensitive to the fact that these cartoons offend most Muslims. In all the debate, I see little evidence of that being the case.

I’m 'sensitive to' the potential offence that might be taken - but that should not automatically stifle criticism, or even ridicule. In a democracy, no-one should expect the right never to be offended. Not believers in fairies, astrology, or religions. I may be offended by Thought for the Day, an over-amplified call to prayer, a chorus of “Glad All Over”... or even “Does Your Boyfriend Know You’re Here?” But that simply does not entitle me to start burning down churches, mosques or the Holmesdale Stand.