Should Saddam have been left to run Iraq?

[HampshireSeagulls]

Really, you mean the same as the capitolist US did to make sure that their political agendas were swayed in Vietnam?

Wow, I didn't know Saddam was THAT bad.

Try again - your post is drivel and makes no sense.

Try and break it into shorter sentences so that something of what you say is at least coherent.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

There are some big clues out there people - like WHY did the US depose Saddam with 911 as a reason, going to extreme length to find the bloke down a little underground hole - yet bin Laden sits around having a laugh, making threatening videos to keep himself amused?

The bin Laden family from Saudi Arabia, are allies of the US. They own lots of holdings in America, their country allowed the US to sit on their land during Desert Storm while attacking Saddam's troops.
One of that family is the leader and protaganist for Al Quaida.

Big clues? You are talking bollocks.

They did not use 911 as a reason for deposing Saddam. Check back and see why, I think you'll find it was based around a UN Resolution regarding permission for UN weapons inspectors to have access to factories and other places where material might be stored.

They went to extreme lengths to find him because he was the figurehead of the country. In theory, once he had been found then the conflict should have been brought to a conclusion. However, the US failed to realise that Saddam was ONLY a figurehead, and that there were plenty of others waiting to step into the vacuum.

Bin Laden is not a threat. There are others now who lead AQ and their offshoots. People need to stop thinking of AQ like an organised military unit - they are a disparate group of smaller units who have tenuous links to each other. Bin Laden was a force for coherence, but the sub units have now realised that he is no longer required.

The Bin Laden family, who are Saudi Arabian, are no longer linked to Osama, this was checked and proved a long time ago. To suggest that the US are not chasing him down because of his family investments is naive at best.

Move on from half-arsed conspiracy theories and look for facts, not News of the World headlines.

 

[bhaexpress]

We were told that the US wanted to get rid of a dictator. There's no hard evidence to suggest that Saddam had anything to do with 911, in fact Osana Bin Laden is a Saudi anyway. If Bush wanted to topple a dictator there are plenty of other candiates, there's Haiti for a start and that would have been far cheaper and easier.

It's about oil plain and simple. I just wonder how destablising Iraq will help with that agenda.

 

[goldstone]

Re: Re: Should Saddam have been left to run Iraq?

Yes, he was a contained and broken threat and posed no danger to anyone outside his borders.

There was another way to get rid of Saddam, it would have taken longer and required more patience, but empowering the opposition and waiting for his incapacitation and eventual death of this ageing dictator would have involved less suffering, less deaths and less havoc.

Exactly!!

 

[Napper]

No , he shouldn't . Mass murderer / torturer

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Re: Re: Should Saddam have been left to run Iraq?

There was another way to get rid of Saddam, it would have taken longer and required more patience, but empowering the opposition and waiting for his incapacitation and eventual death of this ageing dictator would have involved less suffering, less deaths and less havoc.

We did this, sort of. We tried to help one of the minority factions to empower themselves, but their rising failed horribly. They simply were not ready. The only other snag with waiting until he dies was that Uday and the other scum-sucking son were waiting in the wings. The trouble with Iraq was that nepotism was rife, to a level that we in the West find hard to believe - far more than just Jeb being the Governor of Florida and his bro' being Pres. Every position of power in government, national and local, was headed up by an "al-Tikriti" member of the Hussein clan. His death would not really have stopped much.

I think that we were lied to for the reasons for invasion, and it has been one almighty clusterfuck since the invasion.

 

[Grendel]

No , he shouldn't . Mass murderer / torturer

True, but using the same logic we currently ought to be deposing the regimes of Cuba, China, Zimbabwe, Vietnam etc etc. There are plenty of corrupt, murderous dictators out there. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why we went for Saddam.

 

[goldstone]

No , he shouldn't . Mass murderer / torturer

And what exactly have the American's been doing in the Iraqui jails? The word torture springs to mind ...

And how many people have been murdered as a direct result of the invasion and its consequencies?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Do you want to see some videos of Iraqi policemen abusing their own countrymen? Vids of gassed Kurds? Is it only torture because the tabloids say so? Do we count torture that the Iraqis inflict on their own people, as well as our own. Oh yes, did you know that Iraq is a signatory to the Geneva Convention - and they are also signatories to the Convention of Equal Rights, so technically they were all for female education, equal rights in the workplace, etc.

Not quite as chest-beating for you as watching Servicemen doing it, of course, but might actually force you to jump off the bandwagon and try and form your own opinions based on information that is not fed to you by the News of the World. Try and balance your views, not just rehash the lines that are fed to you.

 

[pigsinspace]

he real thing that i had a problem with Saddam was the incredible lack of human rights and oppression that Saddam actively caused. The persecution of the Sunnis inparticular.

wrong wrong wrong

Iraq's Sunni Arabs inhabit the valleys of the Euphrates above Baghdad, and of the Tigris between Baghdad and Mosul. Sunni Arabs in Iraq comprise the country's ruling elite. A broad system of socioeconomic enticements, patronage, and cliental relationships ties Sunni Arabs together.

the sunnis were Saddam's mates,

so I dont think he persecuted them.

...daft bint

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

wrong wrong wrong

Iraq's Sunni Arabs inhabit the valleys of the Euphrates above Baghdad, and of the Tigris between Baghdad and Mosul. Sunni Arabs in Iraq comprise the country's ruling elite. A broad system of socioeconomic enticements, patronage, and cliental relationships ties Sunni Arabs together.

the sunnis were Saddam's mates,

so I dont think he persecuted them.

More shite facts...daft bint

Sorry, i thought that was wrong!

 

[looney]

Re: Re: Should Saddam have been left to run Iraq?

The illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq by Bush and B.Liar under the blatant 'Weapons Of Mass Destruction' lie was a criminal act. There's upwards of fifty innocent Iraqis being slaughtered every day as a direct result of their decision, years before the war kicked off, to bring about regime change in Iraq to safeguard America's oil supplies. They'll be hauled in front of a War Crimes tribunal yet if there's any justice.

I have yet to be told why it was illeagal. Is being an apolgist for a genocidal maniac Moral? Was the war against Hitler Immoral?

Let me no when the post war death toll matches Saddams half a million odd.

 

[pigsinspace]

No problem, I just had a brief on it at work yesterday as we are sending some guys there!!

I am not really that clever it sounded wrong so I cut and paste from the cia site.

 

[looney]

And what exactly have the American's been doing in the Iraqui jails? The word torture springs to mind ...

And how many people have been murdered as a direct result of the invasion and its consequencies?

Unless you a googly eyed Utopian arguing for a first(abuse free ocupation/state rebuild), you have to admit the americans have done a pretty good job.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I suppose it is too much to ask the Arabs to behave in a civilised manner

Is that un pc

Oh well.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I suppose it is too much to ask the Arabs to behave in a civilised manner

stick to giving your money to bookies ...............

 

[looney]

I suppose it is too much to ask the Arabs to behave in a civilised manner

Is that un pc

Oh well.

Ulsters tards have had tit for tat killings, true not tit for tat slaughters but then after atrocities Priests etc call for calm, Imams, or so of them, call for retribution.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Thought so

 

[jonny.rainbow]

Since the illegal war, invasion and occupation:

More Iraqi's are without medical supplies.
More Iraqi's are without electricity.
More Iraqi's are without clean water.
More Iraqi's are without food.
Less oil is being produced and exported.
More Iraqi's are dying on a daily basis than at any time under Saddam's regime.

Saddam was not a good man, but his tyrannical regime undeniably gave stability to a historically tempestous region.

 

[looney]

Since the illegal war, invasion and occupation:

More Iraqi's are without medical supplies.
More Iraqi's are without electricity.
More Iraqi's are without clean water.
More Iraqi's are without food.
Less oil is being produced and exported.
More Iraqi's are dying on a daily basis than at any time under Saddam's regime.

Saddam was not a good man, but his tyrannical regime undeniably gave stability to a historically tempestous region.

You must be Li's twin brother, making it up as you go along.

I would like to see independent sources for all those claims, starting with illegal war. I also want to see trends for sanitation and food as well as static figures