Shootings at Pulse nightclub in Orlando

[Maldini]

I put it down to him being an Islamic Terrorist that allowed him to do what he did. Nothing else needs to be blamed for his actions but his homophobic religious vews.

I think it's too easy to put this down to him being an Islamic extremist.From what I've seen it seems to me he was an angry prick who hates gays and was going to kill them anyway.This wasn't a guy who was trained at a camp in Syria etc then sent on a mission with a cell.This was a random lowlife.

 

[El Presidente]

Well...he's already said religion had nothing to do with it despite growing evidence to the contrary.

Guns definitely played a huge part in this and so did the religion. Would you agree?

As an anti gun atheist, yes I would.

I was replying to the comment that said that religion was the ONLY contributory factor.




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[Deleted member 22389]

I put it down to him being an Islamic Terrorist that allowed him to do what he did. Nothing else needs to be blamed for his actions but his homophobic religious vews.

Exactly.

 

[El Presidente]

I don't celebrate them, I accept your culture is nothing like there's in how the nation came to be however. That's why comparing your two nations is plain stupid.

They have a frontier history where by guns played a huge part in peoples daily lives and their ability to survive and forge their nations borders and identity.

Your culture was one where by the people were for thousands of years oppressed by monarchs and their military and never had the chance to forge their own nation, nor faced the dangers the pioneers in the fledgling US faced.

You had little need for guns, they had a big reason to own them.

Killing native Americans and bears 200 years ago doesn't necessitate owning over 300 million guns in 2016.


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[Maldini]

As much as I think guns in the US should be wiped out,if I was to be in a city when ISIS pulled out guns like in Paris I'd want to be in somewhere like New York where potentially a bunch of civilians around me may also have guns.

 

[Buzzer]

As an anti gun atheist, yes I would.

I was replying to the comment that said that religion was the ONLY contributory factor.




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I'm pleased to hear it as an anti-gun agnostic. I've got to say that the narrative from a lot of the press and from here is that it's primarily a gun problem, rather than the very toxic mix of weapons and the self-proclaimed religion of peace.

 

[El Presidente]

I'm pleased to hear it as an anti-gun agnostic. I've got to say that the narrative from a lot of the press and from here is that it's primarily a gun problem, rather than the very toxic mix of weapons and the self-proclaimed religion of peace.

Don't all religions claim to be peace?


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[Tyrone Biggums]

Not really. If guns weren't so readily at hand, gun crime would be drastically reduced.


But here, I agree with you. In fact, I think your point is a little confused but a good one. The gun laws in the US are not dramatically different from those in Canada, or even in some EU states such as Belgium. The difference is one of culture. There are not gun stores on the street corners of most black neighbourhoods in other countries because the demand isn't there. You have to ask that whilst a country insists on the right to bear arms, why should that mean everyone should actually own one. The US would be better served having a debate about how it views guns IMO.

I think a parallel can be drawn with British culture of excessive drinking. Our drink laws aren't noticeably different from those in other European countries where there isn't a culture of drinking 15 pints on a Friday evening which of course causes all manner of problems. So why has our culture morphed into this where others haven't?

That s about the gist of it.

The Swiss have huge gun ownership, second only to the US, but they don't experience anything like the US do in terms of shootings. National ad historical cultures play a big part in gun ownership and how it is used/perceived.

A lot of the pro-gun pushback in the US comes from city dwelling "liberals" telling rural folk what to do.

Rightly the vast majority of sensible legal gun owners don't like being told what to do by anti-gun wowsers.

 

[El Presidente]

Well...he's already said religion had nothing to do with it despite growing evidence to the contrary.

Guns definitely played a huge part in this and so did the religion. Would you agree?

Being a prick also may have contributed to his actions.

He used to beat his ex-wife too.




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[Tyrone Biggums]

Killing native Americans and bears 200 years ago doesn't necessitate owning over 300 million guns in 2016.


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Who are you to tell people what necessitates their need for a gun?

You're wrong however, hunting is still an enormous part of US culture. As are gun clubs where its a hugely popular hobby.

There's still plenty of US states where people go hunting instead of going to the supermarket.

 

[knocky1]

That was a load of misinformation right there.

A few? There are thousands of cases where being armed has helped in the self defence of a registered gun owners property/safety.

You're not suggesting an individual shooting is considered a statistic for "mass murder" are you?

What happened in Orlando was mass murder. A gang banger getting shot in an alley is not a statistic for "mass murder".

The Orlando incident was the biggest mass murder in US history and had nothing to do with US gun laws and everything to do with fundamentalist Islam.

This was after the genocide of many Indian tribes. I saw this site a couple of years back. The Mormons killed 120 white travellers heading towards California from Arkansas.
http://mountainmeadowsmassacre.com

 

[El Presidente]

There's still plenty of US states where people go hunting instead of going to the supermarket.

True.

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[Tyrone Biggums]

True.

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Africans sell permits to legally shoot them. Self determination is a wonderful thing.

 

[daveinprague]

Africans sell permits to legally shoot them. Self determination is a wonderful thing.

.. Rather than colonialists as in the past. Youre right.

 

[El Presidente]

This was after the genocide of many Indian tribes. I saw this site a couple of years back. The Mormons killed 120 white travellers heading towards California from Arkansas.
http://mountainmeadowsmassacre.com

Wow. Never seen that before.

Another religion of peace.




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[El Presidente]

Africans sell permits to legally shoot them. Self determination is a wonderful thing.

The American dentist wasn't however forced to shoot though, was he?


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[Buzzer]

Don't all religions claim to be peace?


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One in particular has a very bloodthirsty problem to Western liberal values.

 

[El Presidente]

One in particular has a very bloodthirsty attitude to Western liberal values.

Less of the Catholics and their organised buggery of young boys and implicit support for the IRA.


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[McTavish]

I put it down to him being an Islamic Terrorist that allowed him to do what he did. Nothing else needs to be blamed for his actions but his homophobic religious vews.

Certainly he is responsible for his actions but I think it is fair to say that easy access to high-powered weapons made the result of his actions considerably more devastating than they might have been.

 

[Buzzer]

Less of the Catholics and their organised buggery of young boys and implicit support for the IRA.


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My goodness you're on form today. So much moral relativism. I reckon you just need to mention the Crusades and that's you done.