Elder for England
New member
- Jan 30, 2008
- 2,388
No we didn't. Wilkins was a bad manager and it's right that he no longer is in charge.
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Seriouly, did we not play better under Wilkins?
- Thread starter The Oldman
- Start date
Knotty
Well-known member
What is weak and dispassionate about it?
Without knowing the facts we all have two choices - to believe the board or not. Should I disbelieve them merely on a whim? Should I automatically disbelieve and criticise everything they do until they can prove to me they are right?
If I think a decision by the board might adversely affect the progress of the team, I will say so. But if a decision is made for reasons I do not know, how can I say it was wrong? I would have to know the reasons first. Until that time I am entitled to choose to believe that the decision was made in the best interests of the club, just as you are entitled to believe that it was made for motives that I find baffling, to say the least.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Why such a serious charge ??
You are saynig the chairman deliberately and knowingly put the best interests of the club to one side so that he could act on his own personal whim - and you're saying thats NOT a serious charge to level at him ?
I can't give you a professional reason for Wilkins's sacking, because I don't know the FACTS about what was going on behind the scenes any more than you do. Its all rumour and hearsay. You ASSUME it was Dick Knights decision to sack WIlkins, and it was for personal reasons. Thats your right of course, if thats what you reckon happened. But you come on here and peddle that assumption as FACT, when the truth is, like everyone else, you're just pissing in the wind !
My point was that you rarely comment on the implication of those decisions, rather acknowledging them as decision they are entitled to make !
NMH
Banned
Having been out of the country for all of Mickey Adams last tenure, and only seen a few on sporadic visits (if they happened to coincide with the football season), his success then means nothing more to me than historic fact and figures.
So - as far as my witnessing of The Albion of these times, I can really only look at things as they happen. From the first league match I saw, I would excuse everything as season-starting team teething, regardless of whether we won lost or drew.
I didn't put much weight into the Crewe game as they might have get thrashed by anyone and everyone
Looking at it now though, I'm watching our tactics and formation, how the team is working together (or not) and comparing it with last season. It was plain that Dean Wilkins was building on things, improving his own experience and making getting something going with the squad he had. Obviously clearing out some of the players was par for the future of the squad, taking some wages off the balance-sheet and making way for new lads.
Well, what has happened, is that Adams has re-hired a couple of those players, and indeed brought in new ones. BUT - what is painful to watch is not the ability of these players or the lads we already knew - but the tactics and formation.
How Elphick and Lynch were invisible when goals went in our end last season was glaring, and now Elphick is getting caught awol just as before. For Richards and Whing to be caught too wide and far forward, Hawkins getting wrong-side of his attacker, offside traps glaringly sprung, and no-one but Kuipers to save the day - it's gone horribly downhill.
He can say he is "disappointed", but I can't believe a whole team are not playing to plan!
WHAT IF bringing Adams in for Wilkins WAS a mistake? Would the board even be able to admit it....in time to do something about it? Right now, things are not looking good - and for my money, it's not all down to the players.
The question is;- now that the chairman and board really have made a move, can they do what is REALLY best for the club if it's desperate and necessary? We've seen things done too late for redemption before with the Hinshelwood gamble.
This is another gamble, but on an old successful manager..... who left us..... and proved nothing in his favour since.
I liked Dean Wilkins, but I want Adams to succeed for the sake of the club. Not so he can recover his faded career, but for the advancement of Brighton and Hove Albion at a crucial time going into a new stadium.
So - as far as my witnessing of The Albion of these times, I can really only look at things as they happen. From the first league match I saw, I would excuse everything as season-starting team teething, regardless of whether we won lost or drew.
I didn't put much weight into the Crewe game as they might have get thrashed by anyone and everyone
Looking at it now though, I'm watching our tactics and formation, how the team is working together (or not) and comparing it with last season. It was plain that Dean Wilkins was building on things, improving his own experience and making getting something going with the squad he had. Obviously clearing out some of the players was par for the future of the squad, taking some wages off the balance-sheet and making way for new lads.
Well, what has happened, is that Adams has re-hired a couple of those players, and indeed brought in new ones. BUT - what is painful to watch is not the ability of these players or the lads we already knew - but the tactics and formation.
How Elphick and Lynch were invisible when goals went in our end last season was glaring, and now Elphick is getting caught awol just as before. For Richards and Whing to be caught too wide and far forward, Hawkins getting wrong-side of his attacker, offside traps glaringly sprung, and no-one but Kuipers to save the day - it's gone horribly downhill.
He can say he is "disappointed", but I can't believe a whole team are not playing to plan!
WHAT IF bringing Adams in for Wilkins WAS a mistake? Would the board even be able to admit it....in time to do something about it? Right now, things are not looking good - and for my money, it's not all down to the players.
The question is;- now that the chairman and board really have made a move, can they do what is REALLY best for the club if it's desperate and necessary? We've seen things done too late for redemption before with the Hinshelwood gamble.
This is another gamble, but on an old successful manager..... who left us..... and proved nothing in his favour since.
I liked Dean Wilkins, but I want Adams to succeed for the sake of the club. Not so he can recover his faded career, but for the advancement of Brighton and Hove Albion at a crucial time going into a new stadium.
Knotty
Well-known member
It IS a decision they are entitled to make.
What is the implication of the decsion to sack Wilkins? I don't know any more than you do. If I knew why they did it, that would help, but I am not ENTITLED to know.
As for the progress of the club, none of us knows that either. Wherever we finish this season, we'll never know if DW would have done better or worse. Just because we finished 7th last season guranteed NOTHING for this season, whoever was in charge.
Until shown otherwise, I believe that the board did what they felt was right for the club, even though I have always been very pro-DW and was NOT a critic of him as a player or manager. I find it very sad that he is no longer at the club, but simply cannot find any justification for your view that the sacking was done purely for DK's personal satisfaction, regardless of the club.
Chairmen do it all the time and it aint a serious charge, its a view.
Some undervalue the importance of managers beleiving they are interchangeable, sack Wilkins get Adams, everything will be ok.
Football really doesnt work that way.
NMH
Banned
I will. Not about whether it's a "sound decision" perhaps, because I've outlined my doubts in that department, above.
As a "professional reason" though, it would be because of events in January;
Losing Hammond, having to juggle finances by offloading players, Savage walking without a destination and O'Callaghan starting a player's union of his own.
The board did NOT want those things happening, or landing on their desk - they saw that as a managerial breakdown. In January, they resolved to replace Dean Wilkins for those reasons, and with Adams ready willing and able - they had their eyes on him as a prize.
Of course, Adams was not to be seen anywhere NEAR The Albion or Withdean, and not a whisper outside of the inner circle either. Perhaps a few match videos were sent to Mickey, discreetly, so he could preview what he was taking on.
Dean Wilkins, even had he taken us up into the Championship - stick a fork in him, he was already done.
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
BigGully, would the whole board have accepted the decision to sack Wilkins if it were a personal vendetta? Dick is not a majority shareholder and could easily be out voted. Indeed, wasn't he originally keen to back McGhee but the Blooms were not behind him on that one?
NMH
Banned
Is this an argument about DK's personal issues? Well I must agree with you Knotty, I believe it WAS thought to be in the club's best interests - and that as a business, Wilkins was perceived as a disappointment - for a crucial lapse in professional management acumen.
Man-management is intrinsic to a football club - it's not all tactics and training, but also management of egos, moods, personalities, and control of the player's issues with wages too, before they might go banging down the director's office door!
I'm not sure if peripherals like living conditions are also a responsibility, but if a transferred-in player is disturbed by being on a dodgy estate - then the manager might well be a conduit for that issue as well.
Still, like any business - your face still has to fit with the bosses, and the boardroom do not want to be discussing duties going wrong with responsible staff, in their meetings.
Even if you ran an ice-cream booth on the pier, however much the boss loved you; if your fridge was accidentally turned off, customers complained of dirt in the ice-cream, the cones got soggy, your booth was closed when the delivery man called........ "see ya"!
Gritt23
New member
I disagree with that. I always felt that Wilkins did have a plan B, and perhaps that was often better than his plan A. I lost count of the games we started slowly under Wilkins, but we would make a few subtle changes to the shape, or possibly the personnel and we'd come storming back into the game.
NS Herald
Well-known member
IMHO and leaving politics aside, so far comparing like with like, we played better football last season - end of.
There is very little flowing football to be seen at Withdean and although Saturday was the best of our 3 home performances, a hiding had been on the cards and it came to pass.
One simple point of note is that having watched our pre game shooting practice which was average at best, I then moved down the other end and remarked at the time how clinical they were with their finishing.
There is a lot of hard work to be done by the players and particularly the management.
There is very little flowing football to be seen at Withdean and although Saturday was the best of our 3 home performances, a hiding had been on the cards and it came to pass.
One simple point of note is that having watched our pre game shooting practice which was average at best, I then moved down the other end and remarked at the time how clinical they were with their finishing.
There is a lot of hard work to be done by the players and particularly the management.
Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!
Primary data is fact
Hmmmm... that's view I haven't heard before; maybe a bit harsh but I'm not sure we've even got a Withdean plan A this season.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
I'm not so sure it was necessarily tactical changes on Wilkins's part that saw us come "storming back" after conceding goals though. Goals change games* and once a team takes the lead, particularly away from home, there is often a tendency to drop back and protect, putting the onus on the losing side to cmoe and and attack (although clearly Scunny saw we were there for the taking and carried on regardless).
Adams's changes turned out to be ineffectual on Saturday (Richards was garbage at LB and garbage in CM). But he CAN react and make positive changes - note the pushing of Cox up behind the two strikers when Southend went down to 10 men - two goals later and it was job done. I think we do have a plan B, but the fact is, it ain't always going to work. Specially not against superior opponents, when so many of our lot are having stinkers.
*(c) Andy Gray
