[Finance] Self employed to receive 80% of income from the Gov’t too

[NooBHA]

That would be ridiculous. As an agent I have full access to all my client's tax information. Can speak to HMRC about it in detail, can submit any information and also adjust it after the fact.

Plus if my client is due a tax refund, with their permission I could get it paid to me (I don't btw as I don't want the complications of a client account).

GDPR? I already know more about my clients information than they do. I regularly get "could you send me my NI number" type messages.

It would be pure madness for all self employed people who use an accountant to have to then set up their own government gateway accounts and claim that way. That's millions of people.

And especially when they'd then have to contact their agent for the information to submit anyway.

You're probably right but I really hope you're wrong as that's just crackers!

I totally agree with everything you say . It's pedantic. But to be honest GDPR is actually over pedantic as it stands anyhow

 

[LlcoolJ]

Sorry, for your clients, to hear that at a critical time for them.

As another funny HMRC aside, did you ever encounter their voice recognition new security protocol on calls to HMRC? It was about 2018. I think it was for Self Assessment. HMRC said they brought it because agents without formal authority were acting for clients and calling in with queries pretending to be the taxpayer.

It went wrong immediately. A friend/client called them and correctly recorded his voice. Then calling another time the system didn’t recognises his voice, and that happened every time. He was in a catch-22 where he couldn’t speak to human being to fix the voice error or anything else.

Soon after it was quietly abandoned as they broke the law, the media found out:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48150575

Goodness the money wasted.

Have you seen that site hmrcisshite or something similar that was set up by an accountant years ago.

It's so true.

I heard about the voice recognition thing from a few people but fortunately never experienced it. [emoji23]

 

[LlcoolJ]

I totally agree with everything you say . It's pedantic. But to be honest GDPR is actually over pedantic as it stands anyhow

Agreed mate. A lot of it is total nonsense.

 

[NooBHA]

That would be ridiculous. As an agent I have full access to all my client's tax information. Can speak to HMRC about it in detail, can submit any information and also adjust it after the fact.

Plus if my client is due a tax refund, with their permission I could get it paid to me (I don't btw as I don't want the complications of a client account).

GDPR? I already know more about my clients information than they do. I regularly get "could you send me my NI number" type messages.

It would be pure madness for all self employed people who use an accountant to have to then set up their own government gateway accounts and claim that way. That's millions of people.

And especially when they'd then have to contact their agent for the information to submit anyway.

You're probably right but I really hope you're wrong as that's just crackers!

Taxpayers aren't going to have to set up a Gateway to claim the refund it seems but the Inspector I spoke to thinks there it going to be a Declaration on the Application that Business and Income has been adversely affected by Covid 19 so that is why it needs Independent Authority.
from Taxpayers

 

[LlcoolJ]

Loads of Accountancy Firms will possibly do it on behalf of clients.

However without a separate Engagement to make the claim on behalf of a client in writing they could be breaching GDPR Legislation. Although I doubt that many will concern themselves with such a small breach if it gets their clients a satisfactory outcome.

Indeed. I'll be doing it for all the clients who need the help. Because that's my job and because they need some money to live off.

I'm sure there are some accountants who will be shitting themselves and will put the idea of getting in trouble for a GDPR breach ahead of the reality of people being in serious financial trouble.

To me that's immoral. Get on with it and deal with the shit later. I'll not make a penny from sorting out claims for people but I'll bloody do it because that's the right thing to do.

Well and also because it's sensible for the economy in the long run to stop people going bust and ending up being a drain, rather than a supply.

Sorry for ranting (and it's totally not aimed at you Noo as we're in agreement) but I'm dealing with LOTS of real cases where self employed people are properly struggling and need this money asap.

Realised I sounded a bit Bob Geldof there.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Taxpayers aren't going to have to set up a Gateway to claim the refund it seems but the Inspector I spoke to thinks there it going to be a Declaration on the Application that Business and Income has been adversely affected by Covid 19 so that is why it needs Independent Authority.
from Taxpayers

Will that's simple then. They can send me an email giving authority to submit the claim, and I'd like to see anyone challenge that when I'm already authorised to do everything else.

Should be as simple as that?

 

[NooBHA]

Indeed. I'll be doing it for all the clients who need the help. Because that's my job and because they need some money to live off.

I'm sure there are some accountants who will be shitting themselves and will put the idea of getting in trouble for a GDPR breach ahead of the reality of people being in serious financial trouble.

To me that's immoral. Get on with it and deal with the shit later. I'll not make a penny from sorting out claims for people but I'll bloody do it because that's the right thing to do.

Well and also because it's sensible for the economy in the long run to stop people going bust and ending up being a drain, rather than a supply.

Sorry for ranting (and it's totally not aimed at you Noo as we're in agreement) but I'm dealing with LOTS of real cases where self employed people are properly struggling and need this money asap.

Realised I sounded a bit Bob Geldof there.

I do realise it wasn't aimed at myself. No worries.

The Big 10 will most likely stick within GDPR.

I understand the Law inside out but I am 1/4 French and the French often say yes they agree with the Law 100% and then are a Law unto themselves.

This is one of the areas where I think Francophile Diplomacy should prevail.

 

[NooBHA]

Will that's simple then. They can send me an email giving authority to submit the claim, and I'd like to see anyone challenge that when I'm already authorised to do everything else.

Should be as simple as that?

See above on Francophile Diplomacy

 

[schmunk]

A genuine question, why would HMRC treat this differently to payroll JRS claims, where agents were permitted as a matter of course to make the claims?

A problem may arise not from GDPR but from the setup of the 64-8 Agent Authority - there are separate categories for Individual Income Tax, Corporation Tax and Employer PAYE schemes, which require separate registrations.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/815650/authorise_agent_64-8.pdf

If these schemes are (presumably) considered as sitting within the remit of PAYE, then of course agents for employers will sail through with JRS claims, but agents for contractors may perhaps not yet be correctly registered?

 

[LlcoolJ]

A problem may arise not from GDPR but from the setup of the 64-8 Agent Authority - there are separate categories for Individual Income Tax, Corporation Tax and Employer PAYE schemes, which require separate registrations.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/815650/authorise_agent_64-8.pdf

If these schemes are (presumably) considered as sitting within the remit of PAYE, then of course agents for employers will sail through with JRS claims, but agents for contractors may perhaps not yet be correctly registered?

That's why it's still a total grey area. How can you be / not be correctly registered as an agent for something that doesn't exist yet?

Surely the logical route would be that if you are authorised to act for a self employed individual then you are authorised to submit a claim? There's no part of a 64-8 (or anywhere on the agent's HMRC web pages) where you can request authorisation for SEISS. Obviously, because it wasn't a thing until now. Anyway, we shall see!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Have you seen that site hmrcisshite or something similar that was set up by an accountant years ago.

It's so true.

I heard about the voice recognition thing from a few people but fortunately never experienced it. [emoji23]

Try speaking with the DWP ...... makes HMRC seem like an absolute dream.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Try speaking with the DWP ...... makes HMRC seem like an absolute dream.

Well yes. These days both seem to be mostly staffed by..........

 

[schmunk]

Well yes. These days both seem to be mostly staffed by..........

View attachment 123139

'Twas ever thus.

 

[LlcoolJ]

'Twas ever thus.

You're right of course, but it's definitely got worse over the past few years. Had a client recently who was trying to sort out a PAYE issue. He called HMRC three times and was given three totally conflicting pieces of information/advice, all of which were wrong.

 

[Weststander]

That's why it's still a total grey area. How can you be / not be correctly registered as an agent for something that doesn't exist yet?

Surely the logical route would be that if you are authorised to act for a self employed individual then you are authorised to submit a claim? There's no part of a 64-8 (or anywhere on the agent's HMRC web pages) where you can request authorisation for SEISS. Obviously, because it wasn't a thing until now. Anyway, we shall see!

Exactly.

Acting for self assessment (which necessarily covers self employment supplementary pages) and calculating income tax and class 4 nic, imo covers this new scheme.

In exactly the same way that acting for paye, enabled JRS claims for clients, without the need for a new bureaucratic obstacle to appease date protection obsessives sitting in Whitehall.

 

[Weststander]

You're right of course, but it's definitely got worse over the past few years. Had a client recently who was trying to sort out a PAYE issue. He called HMRC three times and was given three totally conflicting pieces of information/advice, all of which were wrong.

Have you ever tried to get VAT advice over the phone with HMRC, on a technical matter?

The people you speak to are lazy feckers who simply steer you to some sections of VAT manuals and gobbledy-gook notices. Sometimes they are patently the wrong sections. Deliberately leaving it to you to reach conclusions, leaving you open to an error, which no doubt hmrc would later seize upon. Pathetic.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Thanks chaps - Mrs KZN has just checked on the Gov.Uk site and she is eligible to make a claim on or after the 15th May. Hoorah!

 

[LlcoolJ]

Thanks chaps - Mrs KZN has just checked on the Gov.Uk site and she is eligible to make a claim on or after the 15th May. Hoorah!

Good stuff! Hope it's an easy process for her / you.

 

[One Love]

No. Agents will be able to make the application. From what HMRC have said so far this shouldn't be an issue.

Apparently not.

Agents have been blocked from making the claim themselves and warned about registering the gateway id themselves and doing it for their clients.

HMRC expect every claim to be made by the taxpayer.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Apparently not.

Agents have been blocked from making the claim themselves and warned about registering the gateway id themselves and doing it for their clients.

HMRC expect every claim to be made by the taxpayer.

Yeah the goalposts have been moved again.

It is very stupid.