Scumbag [racist Charlton] fans

[Barrel of Fun]

Where does it say anything about people being let off?

I've answered my own question there. Silly boy.

Cautions for rape? Yikes. Is that on the spot or after a thorough investigation?

However, I still believe that is irrelevant and should be dealt with in its own sense rather than comparing to different crimes.

 

[Creaky]

You can get arrested for burning a poppy, depending on the circumstances - you can even get arrested for posting a picture of a poppy being burnt on Twitter!!!!

It's not so much the action that you get arrested and/or convicted for but rather the effect it has or is likely to have on others.

In this case "
"Witnesses said they felt intimidated and feared there was a real and significant risk of violence"

You get a £50 fine for burning the Poppy and a £350 fine for burning the Koran.

See highlighted text above

 

[daveinprague]

Soulman..one is a sacred book, the other is the symbol of a registered charity. There is a legal difference. There are tariffs for certain crimes.. thats why there is a disparity in the punishment. As, im sure you know.

 

[Soulman]

See highlighted text above

Iv'e read the text above. So do you think that burning a poppy ON Rembrance Day, not to mention the UK flag, where there are people who have lost loved ones, has less effect than burning a koran, not in front of any grieving people.

 

[Soulman]

Soulman..one is a sacred book, the other is the symbol of a registered charity. There is a legal difference. There are tariffs for certain crimes.. thats why there is a disparity in the punishment. As, im sure you know.

So would we see the same fines if something was burned (including the flag) on a Muslim special day, compared to the bible on a non special day.
Let's hope so.

 

[Creaky]

Iv'e read the text above. So do you think that burning a poppy ON Rembrance Day, not to mention the UK flag, where there are people who have lost loved ones, has less effect than burning a koran, not in front of any grieving people.

One has an aggravating factor, (i.e. religious intolerance), which attracts a higher sentencing tariff, the other doesn't.

 

[daveinprague]

If thats the tariff, I would guess so, or do you believe the judiciary and establishment is full of left wingers, and out to destroy England, as in my experience, the judiciary, and the establishment are a little bit more to the right.

 

[armchairclubber]

You get a £50 fine for burning the Poppy and a £350 fine for burning the Koran.

There's a difference between inciting racial hatred and a political protest, a lot of the examples of behaviour given on here I don't think equate the gravity of the offence. For instance if a Muslim fundamentalist was to burn a poppy I would have thought the £350 fine may well be thought appropriate by the Judge who may well even come down harder.

For the Charlton fans in question to sing what they did in a public place in a multi-racial society was obviously antagonistic to say the least so don't really understand any sympathy on their side with the sentence. If some of those who think a Saturday afternoon at the football is an opportunity to get all sorts of ignorant aggressive "banter" or worse out of their system will learn a lesson then all the better.

 

[stripeyshark]

Don't forget, 8 year football banning order means 4 summers of no holidays abroad.

 

[Buzzer]

Is it any wonder when you see some of the opinions expressed on this thread that you can look around in any football crowd and hardly see a non-white face!

One could argue that this disproportionate sentencing does nothing but fuel the flames of right-wing extremism. This is precisely the kind of story that BNP/EDL will pick up on as a prime example of the state coming down like a ton of bricks on the white working class wrongdoers whilst treading very gingerly around other groups especially Muslim extremists who are just as offensive, just as intimidating. It's no good saying that one represents a religious group and the other doesn't. The law has to be seen to be fair for all otherwise resentment grows and the extremists will succeed. With all due respect, there's a fair few people on here that are so triumphalist that racists have been jailed for a long time that they are blind to the consequences of this ridiculously harsh sentences - just as they've always been blind to the reasons for the rise of the BNP and EDL in poor working class areas.

 

[Guinness Boy]

There's a difference between inciting racial hatred and a political protest, a lot of the examples of behaviour given on here I don't think equate the gravity of the offence. For instance if a Muslim fundamentalist was to burn a poppy I would have thought the £350 fine may well be thought appropriate by the Judge who may well even come down harder.

For the Charlton fans in question to sing what they did in a public place in a multi-racial society was obviously antagonistic to say the least so don't really understand any sympathy on their side with the sentence. If some of those who think a Saturday afternoon at the football is an opportunity to get all sorts of ignorant aggressive "banter" or worse out of their system will learn a lesson then all the better.

They'd get a lesson being sent back to school or doing community service with a charity that deals with the results of race hate or communal violence. They'll just get more racist inside.

 

[armchairclubber]

They'd get a lesson being sent back to school or doing community service with a charity that deals with the results of race hate or communal violence. They'll just get more racist inside.

Unfortunately, you're more than probably quite right

 

[Buzzer]

disrespectful for sure.. insulting, to people who have fought, and relatives very much so...but I dont think our laws are structured for knee jerk reactions,

This is where I think you are spectacularly wrong. I think you'd be hard pushed to find something more more offensive, more likely to cause public outrage to the average British person than burning a poppy wreath in front of people gathering on Remembrance Sunday. I recognise that you don't feel that revulsion but, and I say this with no sarcasm or slight, I think you'd be the exception.

And you're also wrong, IMO, about laws being made for knee-jerk reactions. The Blair government especially invented law after law on the flimsiest of justifications.

 

[Soulman]

One could argue that this disproportionate sentencing does nothing but fuel the flames of right-wing extremism. This is precisely the kind of story that BNP/EDL will pick up on as a prime example of the state coming down like a ton of bricks on the white working class wrongdoers whilst treading very gingerly around other groups especially Muslim extremists who are just as offensive, just as intimidating. It's no good saying that one represents a religious group and the other doesn't. The law has to be seen to be fair for all otherwise resentment grows and the extremists will succeed. With all due respect, there's a fair few people on here that are so triumphalist that racists have been jailed for a long time that they are blind to the consequences of this ridiculously harsh sentences - just as they've always been blind to the reasons for the rise of the BNP and EDL in poor working class areas.

Good post.

 

[Creaky]

One could argue that this disproportionate sentencing does nothing but fuel the flames of right-wing extremism. This is precisely the kind of story that BNP/EDL will pick up on as a prime example of the state coming down like a ton of bricks on the white working class wrongdoers whilst treading very gingerly around other groups especially Muslim extremists who are just as offensive, just as intimidating. It's no good saying that one represents a religious group and the other doesn't. The law has to be seen to be fair for all otherwise resentment grows and the extremists will succeed. With all due respect, there's a fair few people on here that are so triumphalist that racists have been jailed for a long time that they are blind to the consequences of this ridiculously harsh sentences - just as they've always been blind to the reasons for the rise of the BNP and EDL in poor working class areas.

You state that the sentencing was disproportionate, and if it was simply for singing a few songs on a train then I would agree, irrespective of the content of those songs. Reports would however suggest otherwise.

If it was just for singing then how do you explain, "Prosecutors said the men were convicted after witnesses complained of sexual and racially motivated abuse"

Of course the singing and the subject of that is a headline grabber but there has to be more than a group of men politely singing a song!

Neither you nor I was in court to hear full details of what occurred and as such we can only leave justice in the hands of the jury who found the men guilty of the aggravated public order offence and the judge who passed the sentence.

If there is anyone to blame for any possible consequences that may arise from this case then it has to be the media. It is the way the media reports such cases that leads some to claim that the sentence handed down is 'ridiculously harsh' - it is a shame that so many take what they read in the press as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

 

[daveinprague]

This is where I think you are spectacularly wrong. I think you'd be hard pushed to find something more more offensive, more likely to cause public outrage to the average British person than burning a poppy wreath in front of people gathering on Remembrance Sunday. I recognise that you don't feel that revulsion but, and I say this with no sarcasm or slight, I think you'd be the exception.

And you're also wrong, IMO, about laws being made for knee-jerk reactions. The Blair government especially invented law after law on the flimsiest of justifications.

I did feel revulsion to the poppy burning...it was extemely disrespectful, and as many muslims have died for Britain in two world wars, pretty stupid....in fact, I will be probably one of the few people on here that will be at the Rembrance service in Brighton, next month. Whether you, me or anybody else feels revulsion, the law the the land has different tariffs.. which is the point.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stephen-lawrence-seven-charlton-athletic-2659174

Going to be a very unpleasant time if they get put on a predominantly 'commonwealth' wing in the nick....

absolute joke,needs to be balanced up ,waste of tax payers money !!
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

its funny how this has brought out all the muslim haters on the thread again, when islam wasnt involved.

where have people stated they hate Muslims, you might need a chain saw to remove that chip
regards
DR

 

[Guinness Boy]

This is where I think you are spectacularly wrong. I think you'd be hard pushed to find something more more offensive, more likely to cause public outrage to the average British person than burning a poppy wreath in front of people gathering on Remembrance Sunday. I recognise that you don't feel that revulsion but, and I say this with no sarcasm or slight, I think you'd be the exception.

And you're also wrong, IMO, about laws being made for knee-jerk reactions. The Blair government especially invented law after law on the flimsiest of justifications.

I did feel revulsion to the poppy burning...it was extemely disrespectful, and as many muslims have died for Britain in two world wars, pretty stupid....in fact, I will be probably one of the few people on here that will be at the Rembrance service in Brighton, next month. Whether you, me or anybody else feels revulsion, the law the the land has different tariffs.. which is the point.

One of the reasons for buying a poppy is to remember those who died fighting fascism of all kinds and that's why I get one as soon as I see a seller each year. Burning them revolts me. But, just as I posted about the subjects of this thread, I would rather we tried to educate those who did it rather than locking them up with their own tribe to get more radicalised.

 

[daveinprague]

where have people stated they hate Muslims, you might need a chain saw to remove that chip
regards
DR

Are you a professionaly trained fool, or just a talented amateur?