[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Icy Gull]

You speak as if there are battalions of soldiers with equipment wandering around in NATO uniforms or something. Aside from small UN peacekeeping forces, NATO is an on-paper alliance which thankfully has not ever been properly tested.

If, for example, Russia were to encroach on Poland, it will be the Polish army responding. In the coming days and weeks, NATO will deliberate what to do - almost certainly attempt de-escalation.

Whilst Russia have so far been pretty incompetent from everything I’ve seen and read, we’ve never really seen how NATO works when article 5 is actioned.

I have no doubt that any incursion into Poland would result in an escalation that would require you sticking your head between your legs and kissing your arse goodbye. There is zero chance of it being tolerated imo

 

[Triggaaar]

I have no doubt that any incursion into Poland would result in an escalation that would require you sticking your head between your legs and kissing your arse goodbye. There is zero chance of it being tolerated imo

It wouldn't be tolerated, but that doesn't mean all out nuclear war.

 

[Icy Gull]

It wouldn't be tolerated, but that doesn't mean all out nuclear war.

Putin wouldn’t have a choice when he sees the reaction imo, he IS mad enough

 

[Triggaaar]

Putin wouldn’t have a choice when he sees the reaction imo, he IS mad enough

You really have no idea about that. If he goes into Poland, Nato troops would defend Poland and Russian troops would be defeated. Russia itself would not be invaded. There is no evidence to suggest that Russia would start a full nuclear war. Even if Putin wanted to, there is no evidence that his generals etc would agree and launch weapons that would ensure that everyone they care about would die.

 

[Icy Gull]

You really have no idea about that. If he goes into Poland, Nato troops would defend Poland and Russian troops would be defeated. Russia itself would not be invaded. There is no evidence to suggest that Russia would start a full nuclear war. Even if Putin wanted to, there is no evidence that his generals etc would agree and launch weapons that would ensure that everyone they care about would die.

We both have no idea in fairness, if you can’t see the risk that’s up to you and you have more faith in that madman being pragmatic than I do. I doubt you called what has happened in Ukraine pre war, with civilians and hospitals being targeted. The guy is unhinged, our best hope is that he doesn‘t want to sign his own death warrant.

 

[Triggaaar]

We both have no idea in fairness, if you can’t see the risk that’s up to you

No I didn't claim I know what's going to happen. You said that Putin wouldn't have a choice but to escalate to full nuclear war. You do not know that, was all I was pointing out. I don't know whether we'd have nuclear war or not.

and you have more faith in that madman being pragmatic than I do

If you read my post you'd see I talked about the others he'd need to convince to go full nuclear. He doesn't have the ability to just launch nukes on the US without anyone else supporting him.

I doubt you called what has happened in Ukraine pre war, with civilians and hospitals being targeted.

Firstly, I'm not trying to call what will happen, you are. Secondly, actually I think Putin's targeting of civilians and hospitals hasn't really surprised people, as that's what he's always done. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised he hasn't used chemical weapons.

 

[raymondo]

We, the free world, need to wake up to who is and isn't on our side. It is not just Russia who are enemies of freedom, it is also China. In China the government are feeding the public the same lies that Russia is feeding its people. They don't care about the suffering of Ukraine, they are blaming Nato for this war.

We need to plan a future without China.

Including...we need to make our own 'stuff' again...even if it costs us more in the short term. It's a price of freedom.

 

[Triggaaar]

Including...we need to make our own 'stuff' again...even if it costs us more in the short term. It's a price of freedom.

That's not something consumers can choose, the Western governments need to get together and understand the threat from China, and make laws to deal with it.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

We both have no idea in fairness, if you can’t see the risk that’s up to you and you have more faith in that madman being pragmatic than I do. I doubt you called what has happened in Ukraine pre war, with civilians and hospitals being targeted. The guy is unhinged, our best hope is that he doesn‘t want to sign his own death warrant.

Our best hope is that the rational Russian Elite manage to depose him. Unfortunately they seem to be finding it hard to navigate open windows without falling out.

 

[raymondo]

Also all the others that didn't vote or voted against the other day. The leaders must just something instead of letting him get away with this. If it was against London, Paris Berlin, New York getting blown to bits every day we wouldn't fanny about.

For the countries that voted with Russia or abstained we should stop all foreign aid immediately - yes, there are always arguments that our foreign is directed through local NGOs etc etc but most of these countries can fund locally if they choose to.
Also, I would kick out all Russian kids currently being educated at British private schools - when I checked a year ago there were about 3000. They will all be kids of the Russian elite...kick them out...why do our private schools still take their blood money? And, yes, there's always the argument that being in the British education system for a few years will make those kids look kindly on the UK in the future...and that's just bollocks. Kick them out.
And that's just two things that we continue, unbelievably IMO, to do...and I don't hear it mentioned on the news.

 

[raymondo]

That's not something consumers can choose, the Western governments need to get together and understand the threat from China, and make laws to deal with it.

Absolutely. The governments need to get serious NOW...as they should have done before starting their reliance on Russian gas and oil those years ago.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

For the countries that voted with Russia or abstained we should stop all foreign aid immediately - yes, there are always arguments that our foreign is directed through local NGOs etc etc but most of these countries can fund locally if they choose to.
Also, I would kick out all Russian kids currently being educated at British private schools - when I checked a year ago there were about 3000. They will all be kids of the Russian elite...kick them out...why do our private schools still take their blood money? And, yes, there's always the argument that being in the British education system for a few years will make those kids look kindly on the UK in the future...and that's just bollocks. Kick them out.
And that's just two things that we continue, unbelievably IMO, to do...and I don't hear it mentioned on the news.

That just isn't enough, we have to call him. If it was Regent Square getting blown to bits every day you wouldn't be satisfied. We have to see if he would start a nuclear war and we all die or he backs down.

 

[Triggaaar]

That just isn't enough, we have to call him.

By phone?

 

[Worried Man Blues]

By phone?

Reverse depth charges!

 

[raymondo]

That just isn't enough, we have to call him. If it was Regent Square getting blown to bits every day you wouldn't be satisfied. We have to see if he would start a nuclear war and we all die or he backs down.

I know my suggestions are not enough militarily, but they should just be done.

Militarily I think it's time to give Ukraine longer distance shelling capability,and 'allow' them to start shelling Russian towns near the border - military installations, train lines, energy infrastructure etc

 

[SeagullinExile]

I know my suggestions are not enough militarily, but they should just be done.

Militarily I think it's time to give Ukraine longer distance shelling capability,and 'allow' them to start shelling Russian towns near the border - military installations, train lines, energy infrastructure etc

Ukrainian special forces have been working in Russia & Russian occupied territories. Rail lines & fuel dumps have been hit, plus there was the bridge that got blown.

They are quite rightly being very quiet about it, except for a few cheeky tweets after the event.

 

[sparkie]

Polish Leopards arrive in Ukraine today.

The US Bradleys must be close now.

It'll be interesting where the armored punch occurs in a few weeks time.

It seems the Bradleys have already arrived. Not long now until the counterstrike.

 

[raymondo]

Ukrainian special forces have been working in Russia & Russian occupied territories. Rail lines & fuel dumps have been hit, plus there was the bridge that got blown.

They are quite rightly being very quiet about it, except for a few cheeky tweets after the event.

Yes, you're right . Would be great to see more of this activity soon

 

[jakarta]

For the countries that voted with Russia or abstained we should stop all foreign aid immediately - yes, there are always arguments that our foreign is directed through local NGOs etc etc but most of these countries can fund locally if they choose to.
Also, I would kick out all Russian kids currently being educated at British private schools - when I checked a year ago there were about 3000. They will all be kids of the Russian elite...kick them out...why do our private schools still take their blood money? And, yes, there's always the argument that being in the British education system for a few years will make those kids look kindly on the UK in the future...and that's just bollocks. Kick them out.
And that's just two things that we continue, unbelievably IMO, to do...and I don't hear it mentioned on the news.

Well you could argue that having 3000 Russian schoolchildren over here rather lessens the idea of a nuclear war - I dont suppose Vlad could put that past his sponsors?

 

[A1X]

Yes, you're right . Would be great to see more of this activity soon

Everything's largely on hold because it's winter and the whole place is frozen solid. Come April things will really start to get moving again.

European campaigning season is afoot. Everyone since the Romans knows when to wage war in Europe, and it's sure as hell not February.