[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[The Clamp]

Not seen it raised yet but Putin is allowing people to leave Ukraine….but only if they make their way to Russia or Belarus. So effectively not letting anyone leave. Because we all know what fate would befall refugees. Likely they’d be placed in camps and then, Well, history tells us what could happen then.

 

[dazzer6666]

Not seen it raised yet but Putin is allowing people to leave Ukraine….but only if they make their way to Russia or Belarus. So effectively not letting anyone leave. Because we all know what fate would befall refugees. Likely they’d be placed in camps and then, Well, history tells us what could happen then.

It’s outrageous……completely immoral.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Not seen it raised yet but Putin is allowing people to leave Ukraine….but only if they make their way to Russia or Belarus. So effectively not letting anyone leave. Because we all know what fate would befall refugees. Likely they’d be placed in camps and then, Well, history tells us what could happen then.

Most likely his plan is to gather hostages as a hedge against possible western intervention

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Not seen it raised yet but Putin is allowing people to leave Ukraine….but only if they make their way to Russia or Belarus. So effectively not letting anyone leave. Because we all know what fate would befall refugees. Likely they’d be placed in camps and then, Well, history tells us what could happen then.

This is disgusting.

Go to Belarus / Russia.

Next stop trains from there to Siberia. As always.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I posted an extract from the original article - here’s the link to it (which I didn’t post) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/03/05/britain-freezes-russian-bank-assets-country-world/

May still be paywalled.

Thanks. I'm afraid it is still paywalled. Or the Telegraph just don't like me.

I'm afraid that as soon as I saw the headline, I recognised the Cabinet Press office panicking and when I tried to find it, saw it had only been released to limited sources. Well at least someone in Downing Street is earning their Money.

I'm sure I'll be written off
'as one of those people here, on both sides of the political spectrum, who can't wait to join a pile on at the merest whiff of something being amiss. They are so entrenched in their views that they are never able to recognise when "the other side" has got something right and it ruins almost any thread on here which has any kind of connection to politics'
even though I have voted for 4 different parties and a couple of independents over the years

 

[schmunk]

Not seen it raised yet but Putin is allowing people to leave Ukraine….but only if they make their way to Russia or Belarus. So effectively not letting anyone leave. Because we all know what fate would befall refugees. Likely they’d be placed in camps and then, Well, history tells us what could happen then.

It also gives Russian state media some lovely images of brave Russians being rescued from the oppressive Nazi forces.

 

[A1X]

Putin has unleashed hell on Earth in some cities in Ukraine's east.

If that reaches Kyiv do we just sit back and watch a thousand Srebrenicas on our TVs ? Just tutting and shaking our heads.

I think inaction becomes unsustainable at that point.

Is a thousand Srebrenicas worse than a million Srebrenicas with added radioactivity?


If we acted at that point we'd be driven not by logic but by emotion, and decisions made emotionally seldom work out.

 

[schmunk]

Thanks. I'm afraid it is still paywalled. Or the Telegraph just don't like me.

I'm afraid that as soon as I saw the headline, I recognised the Cabinet Press office panicking and when I tried to find it, saw it had only been released to limited sources. Well at least someone in Downing Street is earning their Money.

I'm sure I'll be written off
'as one of those people here, on both sides of the political spectrum, who can't wait to join a pile on at the merest whiff of something being amiss. They are so entrenched in their views that they are never able to recognise when "the other side" has got something right and it ruins almost any thread on here which has any kind of connection to politics'
even though I have voted for 4 different parties and a couple of independents over the years

Post the paywalled link here (or simply put 12ft.io/ before the link text in your browser bar:


http://12ft.io/


Do not, of course, post the paywalled text back on to NSC, else Booza will get sued into oblivion.

 

[Billy the Fish]

What would you do
If you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom
What would you do
If asked to make the ultimate sacrifice

Would you think about all them people
Who gave up everything they had.
Would you think about all them War Vets
And would you start to feel bad

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
No, there's a hefty ****in' fee.
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

What would you do
If someone told you to fight for freedom.
Would you answer the call
Or run away like a little pussy
'Cause the only reason that you're here.
Is 'cause folks died for you in the past
So maybe now it's your turn
To die kicking some ass

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
Now there's a have to hook'in fee
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

You don't throw in your buck 'o five. Who will?
Oooh buck 'o five
Freedom costs a buck 'o five

 

[Bozza]

Thanks. I'm afraid it is still paywalled. Or the Telegraph just don't like me.

I'm afraid that as soon as I saw the headline, I recognised the Cabinet Press office panicking and when I tried to find it, saw it had only been released to limited sources. Well at least someone in Downing Street is earning their Money.

I'm sure I'll be written off
'as one of those people here, on both sides of the political spectrum, who can't wait to join a pile on at the merest whiff of something being amiss. They are so entrenched in their views that they are never able to recognise when "the other side" has got something right and it ruins almost any thread on here which has any kind of connection to politics'
even though I have voted for 4 different parties and a couple of independents over the years

Yep. Let's be clear: you're one of those that makes running this site far less fun than it used to be.

You come across as someone who takes some sort of pleasure out of the government getting stuff wrong. You'll claim you don't, of course, but that is how you come across much of the time.

I don't like this government, but I still want them to get things right because a government getting things right is good for the populace.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yep. Let's be clear: you're one of those that makes running this site far less fun than it used to be.

You come across as someone who takes some sort of pleasure out of the government getting stuff wrong. You'll claim you don't, of course, but that is how you come across much of the time.

I don't like this government, but I still want them to get things right because a government getting things right is good for the populace.

I'm genuinely sorry if I am a pain, I can be very pedantic in a debate but always try to back it up with evidence and try to stick to the rules of NSC and engage in reasoned debate on subjects that interest me like Gardening, Government and the Albion and don't believe I have changed the way I post in 19 years.

I know there have been interactions with a few posters where I haven't achieved that, and for that I apologise.

I want this Government to do things right for the populace, but I think that unfortunately whenever the two of us see a Press release from them, you start from the viewpoint of give them a chance, I start from the viewpoint that they've already had too many and I'm cynical about what they are trying to achieve by it. I will hold this Government to account for what they have done.

Anyway, back to Ukraine.

 

[The Clamp]

What would you do
If you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom
What would you do
If asked to make the ultimate sacrifice

Would you think about all them people
Who gave up everything they had.
Would you think about all them War Vets
And would you start to feel bad

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
No, there's a hefty ****in' fee.
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

What would you do
If someone told you to fight for freedom.
Would you answer the call
Or run away like a little pussy
'Cause the only reason that you're here.
Is 'cause folks died for you in the past
So maybe now it's your turn
To die kicking some ass

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
Now there's a have to hook'in fee
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

You don't throw in your buck 'o five. Who will?
Oooh buck 'o five
Freedom costs a buck 'o five

Well yes, but I will add that all sources are urging people from all countries, including trained soldiers (serving and non-serving) not to make their way to Ukraine to join the fight. It could hand Putin the propaganda coup he is craving as an excuse to escalate.

Plus they are unlikely to make any significant difference.

 

[Poojah]

Not seen it raised yet but Putin is allowing people to leave Ukraine….but only if they make their way to Russia or Belarus. So effectively not letting anyone leave. Because we all know what fate would befall refugees. Likely they’d be placed in camps and then, Well, history tells us what could happen then.

It seems it’s dawned on Putin that he’s creating an economic vacuum in Ukraine. Those who have already left won’t return any time soon, and a great many of those who remain will be killed in the hostilities. Given the plan appears to be to destroy the country’s entire infrastructure, how on earth did he envisage its rebuild would be funded.

Absolute madness. Callous, evil madness. I don’t subscribe to the binary view of ‘the west = all good, Russia = all bad’, but it’s impossible to see the brutality of Ukraine as anything other than that.

 

[Audax]

Thanks. I'm afraid it is still paywalled. Or the Telegraph just don't like me.

Hint: the paywall is applied using JavaScript. There's plenty of tools available that make it easy to disable JS temporarily. If you use Chrome, there's a browser extension called "Toggle JavaScript".

 

[Eric the meek]

It seems it’s dawned on Putin that he’s creating an economic vacuum in Ukraine. Those who have already left won’t return any time soon, and a great many of those who remain will be killed in the hostilities. Given the plan appears to be to destroy the country’s entire infrastructure, how on earth did he envisage its rebuild would be funded.

Absolute madness. Callous, evil madness. I don’t subscribe to the binary view of ‘the west = all good, Russia = all bad’, but it’s impossible to see the brutality of Ukraine as anything other than that.

Just when you think Putin wouldn't do anything worse, he does.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

On the one hand the destruction of Ukrainian cities in the east is gathering pace.

On the other hand the destruction of Putin's land army is accelerating.

It seems like a race between genocide to break Ukraine's spirit and Ukrainian resolve to break Putin's army.

No wonder Putin is wailing about weapons supply.

 

[amexer]

Putin will not stop if any chance he gains nothing. Get round table and recognise Crimea and the 2 Russian speaking parts of Ukraine as now part of Russia. Not right but if it stops the senseless killing

 

[atomised]

Putin will not stop if any chance he gains nothing. Get round table and recognise Crimea and the 2 Russian speaking parts of Ukraine as now part of Russia. Not right but if it stops the senseless killing

Problem is he has repeatedly stated he isn't willing to stop at that. Complete demilitarisation of Ukraine as as far as he is concerned it doesn't exist as a country is his goal

 

[pb21]

This sounds promising...

[tweet]1500800513541275649[/tweet]

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Putin will not stop if any chance he gains nothing. Get round table and recognise Crimea and the 2 Russian speaking parts of Ukraine as now part of Russia. Not right but if it stops the senseless killing

a) Are you saying it should be the UK (or the west) that gives away parts of Ukraine?

b) There is an obvious historic comparison to your suggestion, in which the aggressor, didn't stop at taking one bite of land and the man who landed at the airport waving the bit of paper, was made to look a little foolish