[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[rogersix]

I take your point about this particular decision. I was wrong. However I’m sorry but the bit in bold is completely untrue.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...imposed-on-russia-over-ukraine-invasion-putin

Unfortunately Putin has an open door to push his crap and divide the west because some people are more interested in petty squabbles about other things.

do you mean you?

 

[rogersix]

Because there are many posters here who will not in whatever the circumstance praise whatever good the govt is doing. There is a simple unwillingness to see anything positive whilst we have a Tory govt. I pity these people in their trammelled viewpoint as I believe the govt is overall doing an excellent job supporting the Ukrainians on the ground and diplomatically and economically as well. I would like more help for people fleeing the war though it seems a lot of the Ukrainians want to stay locally in case they can return soon. I am not so sure this will be a quick process so long-term we should plan to accept more refugees. I think Labour would also be behaving very similarly were they in power as well.

I say this as a neutral who would like Boris to be removed.

simply tell us about all these positive things

 

[The Clamp]

OK I've exaggerated the difference but I am particularly annoyed at the fact the conservatives are clearly protecting oligarchs who are funding their party, so while Germany and Norway and other nations seize their yachts, we give them 30 days to squirrel away their assets. It's not very impressive is it?

“Give us time to get out and we won’t spill the beans on your ties with Russia”

Maybe?


Would be Johnson through and through wouldn’t it.

 

[Bry Nylon]

“Give us time to get out and we won’t spill the beans on your ties with Russia”

Maybe?


Would be Johnson through and through wouldn’t it.

Absolutely. Meantime, my mate Ollie Gark is pissed off because his debit card just got declined in Asda.

 

[rogersix]

So you are happy to condemn the actions of the Russian army in Ukraine - but not the atrocities committed by the British Army - fair enough - says it all really.

start an "ireland is the centre of the universe" thread, ffs

james joyce, stick it up your chuff

 

[PTC Gull]

So Russia is not targeting civilians......yeah right.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60608706

 

[origigull]

I have read somewhere that an international brigade similar to the one that was formed during the Spanish civil war is/could be formed. Always thought this might happen.

Sorry to quote myself but heard on TV news that about 17,000 people have so far gone to Ukraine to join a foreign legion to help with the struggle against Russia with more joining every day.

 

[Eeyore]

Seriously - and you got that from my condemnation of the actions of Russia

Now - back to the topic at hand - Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an imperialist power-grab by the regime of oligarchs led by Putin. They have adopted this approach for a variety of reasons, among which are the expansion by NATO into Eastern Europe, the attempts by the EU to bring Ukraine into therir sphere of influence and the efforts by the USA to establish military bases in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. The reality that a significant proportion of the population of the Ukraine (more than 8 million people) are ethnic Russians cannot be ignored, nor the efforts by sections of the far-right in Ukraine to drive ethnic Russians out of the country.

This conflict will not be resolved by sanctions (which are a form of warfare) or by NATO intervention - in fact both are likely to make the situation far worse. It requires a mass anti-war movement based on solidarity and unity of working class people, globally, but specifically in Russia. Such a mass movement is capable of developing into a mass organised opposition to Putin's regime. Unfortunately, imperialist wars and imperialist power-grabs are part and parcel of capitalism - it cannot be avoided in a system based on exploitation and oppression.

You do make a lot of sense when you stay once you stay on subject.

Unfortunately, there are only two players who can ultimately stop a long and dreadful war for good. The USA and Russia. As unpalatable as it may seem to those in Washington, the Chinese may need to be involved too.

The EU is useless in this situation, aside of leading the sanctions.

I can't see any other way out, aside of some major domestic response in Russia.

 

[PTC Gull]

Update from my friend close to Kyiv.. Its a bit shorter today. If you have any friends in Russia you can get info to, please pass this on.

Good morning all,
At 0700 local 0500 GMT a major fight broke out in the direction of Boryspil. We could hear the Russians were using Grad rockets fired in salvos of six to eight. It sounded as if the Ukrainians were using either tanks or artillery. So much for Putin's we are not attacking civilians' statements. The windows in the house rattled and sometimes the whole house shook. There have been no pronouncements on the various digital networks that the Ukrainians are using to pass information.
The village defense force patrols the village 24/7 so if anything comes our way we should get some form of heads up.

Slava Ukraini.

No sit rep received today, we are hoping that's more to do with lack of internet or cell service and not anything else.
Slava Ukraini

 

[rogersix]

I am a long way from been a cosy Tory but but so boring hearing from so many that just want to criticise government in such a difficult situation

a potential world war is what politics actually is.

it's a shame the pm and entire cabinet are an absolute flimmin shambles at the mo; but if they recieved no critisism at all, they would think that they are doing a fine job (or at least getting away with it).

checks and balances are what a democracy actually is

 

[rogersix]

Looks like you've just proved his point. Just can't let it go, even in times like this, eh?

it's a two way street, sweetie

 

[Albion in the north]

No sit rep received today, we are hoping that's more to do with lack of internet or cell service and not anything else.
Slava Ukraini

Hoping that all remain safe. Geroyam Slava.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I find it hard to express the difference in respect I have for those posters getting of their arse and doing something positive and those dredging up tangential partisan or geopolitical grievances

 

[Albion in the north]

Haven't been able to as yet but will donate on Saturday.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Albion in the north]

Excellent, well done!

Have you spoken to Asda and the like re donations? Tesco support local charities and whilst I have not heard anything from them re local collections for Ukraine, it may well be worth asking.

My wife did say that. I had "assumed" that big companies would be approached by someone more important than me. Maybe that will be next weeks plan.

 

[GT49er]

simply tell us about all these positive things

Even people you can't bring yourself to admit they've ever said or done something right, must, simply through random chance occasionally do or say something right.

start an "ireland is the centre of the universe" thread, ffs
james joyce, stick it up your chuff

Even you ..............................

 

[rogersix]

there are different legal systems though. abroad they may (or may not, we'll see) be able to legally seize anyones property on the say so of a government official, with varying levels of evidence. apparently we dont let our ministers do this. i kinda find it uncomfortable that so many people want this to be possible, because its not the sort of thing we normally accept. too easy to dismiss this as anything else, it could be, or could be just our legal process. its going to be awkward down the road if a bunch of sanctioned persons are sueing for compensation from governments.

is that a huge problem at the mo?

presumably, there will be some recourse for appeal so that they can prove in a court of law where they acquired the money from

 

[Albion in the north]

Further to my posting #3379, my Polish friend now informs me that another uncle who lives in Germany drove a large van from there to the Ukraine border with medical supplies. He was allowed to cross the border and deliver aid to wounded soldiers. He then collected 12 refugees including children and taken them back to Germany.

Amazing story. Kudos to him.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Millions - and as a socialist I utterly condemn the actions of the Stalinist regime.

Now -

will you join me in condemning the atrocities committed my Winston Churchill when he used poison gas on Kurds and Afghans in 1919 and when he ordered British troops supporting the White counter-revolution in Russia to drop poison gas bombs on peasnat villages supporting the Bolsheviks during the Russian Civil War ?

will you join with me in condemning the murder of innocent civilians, facilitated by the gvovernment of Ted Heath, by British troops in Ballymurphy in Belfast in August 1971 and in Derry on Bloody Sunday in January 1972?

Prick

 

[dazzer6666]

My wife did say that. I had "assumed" that big companies would be approached by someone more important than me. Maybe that will be next weeks plan.

Definitely worth asking - individual store managers often have a degree of authority to do some deals…….