Richard Dawkins to arrest Pope Benedict.!!!!!

[Acker79]

It was to refute the constant rubbishing on by people who say celibacy causes paedophillia.

Which it clearly does not.

Where is there evidence to counter the theory that the forced celibacy warps ideas of sex and sexuality?

Why bring up homosexuality at all? Why not point to the thousands of priests who live celibate lives without abusing children and ignore the sexuality aspect?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Tyrone - where does the abuse of babies fit in ?

In the sick and demented department?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Where is there evidence to counter the theory that the forced celibacy warps ideas of sex and sexuality?

It's in the John Jay report.

John Jay Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's an independent criminal justice college who were commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.



And what's this forced rubbish?

They arent forced into celibacy, they are well aware of it before they enter the priesthood.

Its their choice.

It may come as a surpirse to you but there's plenty of people not in the clergy or even religious who chose to be celibate for periods in their life.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Why bring up homosexuality at all? Why not point to the thousands of priests who live celibate lives without abusing children and ignore the sexuality aspect?

It was brought up because it was in the report made by the John Jay College.

Did it need to brought up?

Not in the way it was delivered no.

 

[NMH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by keaton;
It's a shame none of this cynicism is used towards an organisation that supports paedos, bans the use of condoms and believes in ghosts and the supernatural

It is, and often.

You obviously think that people who believe in a God have never sat down and asked themselves why they believe or why they are part of whatever organization they belong to.

I say this with the upmost respect, but you come across as being totally clueless in regards to people who have a faith.

keaton just spoke his mind without caring about how upsetting it must be for people of that faith. The problem for some people is that keaton is right and just said it how it is - which is EXACTLY what the dirty paedo-supporting religion is so very careful to try and hide. That they carry - and have carried - so much power for so long, has made them believe that no-one has any right to criticize them or judge their filth.
Does the Catholic god decree that The Pope is beyond reproach, that the sins cannot be exposed because 'these are men of the cloth' or something?

f*** that, screw them to the floor and get the lot to answer for this - INCLUDING the great twat-in-a-hat if he's helping to hide paedophiles.
Come on Dawkins, the indefensible being defended is getting ever more tiresome - and it's been going on for too many years.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

In the sick and demented department?

True. But it must also be about power than any kind of sexuality. Which suggests that power is an important factor and at times more important than sexuality.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Quote:
Originally Posted by keaton;
It's a shame none of this cynicism is used towards an organisation that supports paedos, bans the use of condoms and believes in ghosts and the supernatural



keaton just spoke his mind without caring about how upsetting it must be for people of that faith. The problem for some people is that keaton is right and just said it how it is - which is EXACTLY what the dirty paedo-supporting religion is so very careful to try and hide. That they carry - and have carried - so much power for so long, has made them believe that no-one has any right to criticize them or judge their filth.
Does the Catholic god decree that The Pope is beyond reproach, that the sins cannot be exposed because 'these are men of the cloth' or something?

f*** that, screw them to the floor and get the lot to answer for this - INCLUDING the great twat-in-a-hat if he's helping to hide paedophiles.
Come on Dawkins, the indefensible being defended is getting ever more tiresome - and it's been going on for too many years.

What a load of cobblers

Thats like saying the English are baby killer supporters because they support their soliders when they go in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and innocents get killed.

Your Government lied about wepaons of mass destruction, went into iraq, killed a shit load of people all on the back of lies they tried to cover up.

Gonna lock up the Labour party with all those Paedo priests while you're at it?

Generalizations are so much fun.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

True. But it must also be about power than any kind of sexuality. Which suggests that power is an important factor and at times more important than sexuality.

Would you sense much power over a baby?

Disgusting either way.

 

[Acker79]

It's in the John Jay report.

John Jay Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's an independent criminal justice college who were commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

I'll have to take your word on that because I didn't see anything in the wikipedia article that disproved, or referred to disproving of the theory that celibacy can warp some priests' ideas of sex and sexuality. And to be honest, if it did, I would question it's legitimacy because the article in that link says the report is based on questionnaires sent out to diocese, and I hardly expect the respondents to psychoanalyse themselves or admit the church's policy on sex relations could have played a part.

And what's this forced rubbish?

They arent forced into celibacy, they are well aware of it before they enter the priesthood.

Its their choice.

It may come as a surpirse to you but there's plenty of people not in the clergy or even religious who chose to be celibate for periods in their life.

No, it doesn't surprise me. You see, I was trying to distinguish between those people who choose to be celibate for the sake of celibacy and people who chose to be a priest and (maybe reluctantly) accept celibacy as part of the 'job'.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'll have to take your word on that because I didn't see anything in the wikipedia article that disproved, or referred to disproving of the theory that celibacy can warp some priests' ideas of sex and sexuality. And to be honest, if it did, I would question it's legitimacy because the article in that link says the report is based on questionnaires sent out to diocese, and I hardly expect the respondents to psychoanalyse themselves or admit the church's policy on sex relations could have played a part.

The survey also involved all victims which is where a great portion of the information comes from.

Their participation alone should give the report much credibility.

No, it doesn't surprise me. You see, I was trying to distinguish between those people who choose to be celibate for the sake of celibacy and people who chose to be a priest and (maybe reluctantly) accept celibacy as part of the 'job'.

I apologise if i came across as being tierce. wasnt my intention.

I think most priests accept it without much reluctance. it should be pointed out that for every priest in the actual church there's probably another 10 men who went to become priests and found the restrictions put on them meant being a priest wasnt for them.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's in the John Jay report.

John Jay Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

without reading the whole report, the wiki summary and a couple of the links seem to make a conspicuous ommission on the celibacy issue. theres certainly nothing in the summary to counter the idea that celibacy leads to preists finding an outlet where they can with minors in their care or trust.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

without reading the whole report, the wiki summary and a couple of the links seem to make a conspicuous ommission on the celibacy issue. theres certainly nothing in the summary to counter the idea that celibacy leads to preists finding an outlet where they can with minors in their care or trust.

The report is 156 pages long, you'd be excused if you didnt read it all.

If celibacy was the issue and the need for sexual gratification then you'd think the vast majoirty of priests would turn to prostitutes, not children.

And in my dealing with Priests i'd have thought he group they have the most dealing with isnt children, its pensioners.

Maybe they need to survey the blue rinse set and ask how many 70 year olds have copped a feel from Father.

 

[Acker79]

The survey also involved all victims which is where a great portion of the information comes from.

Their participation alone should give the report much credibility.

Perhaps, but again, I don't think the victims will be qualified or perhaps willing to give a psychological analysis of the events.

I think you would need to have professional psychologists interview and analyse the abusive priests to really address the issue of whether or not celibacy is an issue.

I apologise if i came across as being tierce. wasnt my intention.

I think most priests accept it without much reluctance. it should be pointed out that for every priest in the actual church there's probably another 10 men who went to become priests and found the restrictions put on them meant being a priest wasnt for them.

No problem. You seem to be one of the few arguing our side, so you must be feeling a little victimised.

 

[Acker79]

If celibacy was the issue and the need for sexual gratification then you'd think the vast majoirty of priests would turn to prostitutes, not children.

Perhaps some have, but since they pay no one is complaining...

 

[NMH]

What a load of cobblers

Thats like saying the English are baby killer supporters because they support their soliders when they go in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and innocents get killed.

Your Government lied about wepaons of mass destruction, went into iraq, killed a shit load of people all on the back of lies they tried to cover up.

Gonna lock up the Labour party with all those Paedo priests while you're at it?

Generalizations are so much fun.

I spoke about "the people who hide paedos" and you make that analogy and call me generalizing?
I'm NOT in denial about atrocities coming from any national, they do not represent me. If you let others (i.e. figureheads of religion) represent you, then that's your or anyone else's lookout. But we are discussing people trying to hide criminals.
I'll just ignore your bullshit mate, you are seriously talking right out of your arse

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Perhaps, but again, I don't think the victims will be qualified or perhaps willing to give a psychological analysis of the events.

I think you would need to have professional psychologists interview and analyse the abusive priests to really address the issue of whether or not celibacy is an issue.

There was some mention of psychologists and psychiatrists involvement in it but to what degree I cant be sure.

No problem. You seem to be one of the few arguing our side, so you must be feeling a little victimised.

Haha I don't feel victimised to be honest.

I think most of the people in this thread have debated the issue fairly.

If some people want to take it to another level and make it over the top abuse it's no skin off my nose.

They obviously are more about the bigotry than the moral outrage and would lay the boots in no matter what the issue.

 

[bhaexpress]

I spoke about "the people who hide paedos" and you make that analogy and call me generalizing?
I'll just ignore your bullshit mate, you are seriously talking right out of your arse

He's basically indoctrinated thanks to years of Catholic dogma. Ex Catholics like me see the light and can recognise bullshit.

 

[Don Quixote]

He's basically indoctrinated thanks to years of Catholic dogma. Ex Catholics like me see the light and can recognise bullshit.

Once a Catholic always a Catholic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How will a physicist in a wheely chair arrest the pope?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I spoke about "the people who hide paedos" and you make that analogy and call me generalizing?
I'm NOT in denial about atrocities coming from any national, they do not represent me. If you let others (i.e. figureheads of religion) represent you, then that's your or anyone else's lookout. But we are discussing people trying to hide criminals.
I'll just ignore your bullshit mate, you are seriously talking right out of your arse

You spoke about the "dirty paedo hiding religion", that sounded alot like a one in all in kinda statement.

Sorry if I took that the wrong way, thats just how it read.

I'm NOT in denial about what's happened either. Not sure where you get that idea from.