Response from fan banned from 1901

[H2O]

I know H2O, it's a mad mad mad mad mad mad world isn't it?!

I think this threads proves it!

 

[Acker79]

Ow, I don't know what's what anymore with respect to who's quoting who on whatever thread, especially if people aren't doing it properly.

I just think it's extremely unfair and we've seen cases like this before. It's not a question of judgement about the sentenace, its the fact the club have clearly got the wrong person and facts. It could happen to anyone, and that's what's frightening. It's like when you see one both players sent off because the ref arrived late on the scene and the bloke defending himself was deemed as guilty so ref decides to book both! This poor bloke seems a total victim of circumstance. His only crime was to initiate a conversation and it sounds like the club are almost protecting the Palace guy. I'd like to know what action has been taken against him. At the very least, the club should give back the money on his card.

The only case like this I've heard of before, was the sid one, which was (I thought obviously) a wind up.

I would disagree the it's a fact that the club has got the wrong person or the wrong facts. All we've got here is one person's side of the story. I think it's unfair to slag off the club when that's all we have to go on. Reading the other thread on this earlier, there were either several incidents and so it's hard to know who is giving their accounts of which one, or several people on here saw the incident completely different to how it has been presented (though some have also claimed it was pretty much the same as it is reported here). With so many contradictory reports, how can you judge the club to be wrong as a fact?

Though, I agree it shouldn't be dismissed as 'playground nonsense'.

 

[Nibble]

Why are you so prepared to simply believe ONE account of this story? And how do you know the Palace fan isn't being dealt with, through the owners of his guest ticket?

Exactly, that's why it's a playground thread.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Blimey, that's a leap from situation 1 to situation 47 in the list of possible outcomes! I hope I never tap you on the shoulder and ask if you'd like a seat on the train just in case!!

No, but the said Palace fan is clearly with a lady and a child (perhaps his wife and own kid), and I'm pretty sure any Brighton fan tapping a Palace on the shoulder on the way out after losing 3-1 is not going to be asking in the same tone as "excuse me, is this seat free please".

 

[sydney]

Hi all

I received this e-mail this morning from a good mate of mine who is the individual involved. He has asked me to post this on his behalf as he is not a poster on this site.

Im totally gutted for him as I think most of you we be as well:

Firstly, let me introduce myself as the 1901 member who has received the exclusion from the Amex, as well as not being able to purchase away tickets via the Club until the end of season 2012/2013 football season. At the end of this season I will then be invited to attend a meeting with the Club’s management, If these management officials then deem it ok for me to attend Albion home matches I must first sign a code of behaviour document before being allowed to attend. I will try to condense this as much as possible but as you can imagine it isn’t a one liner so please bear with me.



I have supported the Albion from a young age, have attended home and away matches since 1985 and have been a continuous season ticket holder for 24 years, missing some 10-15 home matches in all that time, including Gillingham and Withdean and I have never been ejected from any ground.



The incident as some people on here have rightly mentioned has not been fully and accurately reported on this forum site. I do not post on NSC and have registered for the sole purpose of setting the story straight now it is has been leaked and is out in the open. I would like to add that I did not wish for it to become common knowledge as currently I am following appeal procedures with both the Club and the Football League (FB). It has also transferred into and is affecting my work, having been called into the boardroom of the professional firm I work for....twice. Further damaging posts from people not knowing the facts, making assumptions and accusing me of using this site to rubbish the Club should realise I simply want the opportunity to set the record straight whilst I appeal the exclusion. I have had to start a new thread as to date many messages on a number of threads have been posted.



To summarise the events on the night in question, I attended the stadium, went to my lounge and had a couple of beers, I then went to my seat to soak up the atmosphere. I did not notice the Palace fan until their first goal, he appeared to celebrate but I wouldn’t say over the top at this stage, and of course many Brighton fans reacted badly to this, but I would say all restrained themselves correctly and the matter passed. My seat is approximately 12 seats to the left and one row behind so I was within close proximity to see but not so as to be able to hear.



It is not for me to judge if the 1901 area is a corporate area, an area with hospitality or just a fancy seating area for Brighton fans. I personally consider it a home end but fully understand how the 1901 members may wish to use their seat for Clients and such like. It was never indicated to me at any stage however there would be away fans sitting in these areas, some might say it is naïve to think that, but hey I was surprised to see a Palace fan there, considering our rivalry.



I didn’t notice any serious problems until their second goal, where the Palace fan had stood up and turned around and faced the Albion fans with both hands in the air celebrating, he was clearly goading the home fans and was aggressive towards the person sitting directly behind him. This clearly resulted in aggression and witnessing such incidents in the past was surprised in didn’t deteriorate into violence. The Stewards were called to the Palace fan and words were exchanged on 2 separate occasions, but he was not removed, I was surprised to see him celebrate again even after the Stewards first visit.



The game finished and I left my seat and headed towards my lounge, I took the route I often take which is along my row, it was clear and the flight of steps to my right were also clear as many people had left early. As I passed behind the Palace fan, I ask him “Are you the Palace fan”, he ignored me so I asked again, he then replied “f##k off”. Now I noticed he was with a woman and a child, I told him that when you are in the home end you show some respect to home fans. This was no different to the 1901 email that was sent to members earlier in the day, this was the first time the Club had commented on away fans being present in 1901 areas. The woman next to him shouted he’s done nothing wrong. The next thing was that 2 individuals from the back of the stand had arrived in front of me, they were aggressive and one referred to me as “Brighton” and the other appeared to be a Brighton fan. The aggression at this stage was by directed at me, these 2 individuals were not privy to my conversation with the Palace fan beforehand. One of the individuals raised his hands towards me, now I am pretty certain that most people’s natural response would be to defend themselves, which I did by pushing his hand away and moving back. This was the only physical contact other than to tap the Palace fan on the shoulder to ask him my initial question. Of course at this stage my voice was raised.!



Directly afterwards, a young steward arrived and said that I had seen me run at the Palace fan aggressively, which was completely false. I offered my details up straight away when asked and then proceeded to the top concourse with an older more senior Steward to take my details down. At this stage 1 of the 2 individuals who had approached me had now appeared at the top where we were standing and had started shouting at me again from behind the Stewards back. He shouted that I was a disgrace and that he would get me banned.



About 2 minutes had passed before the first younger Steward turned up now accusing me of assaulting the Palace fan. Passers-by heard this and immediately offered up their details as they had seen what actually happened. The older Steward turned down his details at this time.



I was allowed to go, which I did, I went to the North Stand where I had another couple of beers before heading to the station.



I honestly, couldn’t believe my eyes when I opened the letter and read that the Club had accused me of assaulting the Palace fan and then poking him in the face as well as assaulting one of the two individuals who the Club said were there to assist and prevent me from carrying out further assaults on the Palace fan.



Now, I immediately phoned Richard Hebberd the morning I received the letter as I was shocked and disgusted by these assault allegations and left him a voicemail message. I received no call back to what I considered a very serious allegation. The following Monday morning I tried ringing Mr Hebberd, but no response. The only time I managed to get through is when I changed from my personal mobile to my work mobile. We discussed the matter at length and he told me he considered it an open and shut case. He mentioned an off duty Policeman had witnessed the assault, I asked how a Policeman witnessing an assault of this degree would not have arrested me there and then. I told Mr Hebberd all we had to do to clear this mess up was to view the CCTV and it would clearly show me not assaulting the Palace fan, but there is no CCTV of the incident. No CCTV of when the Steward was called twice to that area, no CCTV of the assault and no CCTV when I was having my details taken down in the minutes after the incident. I find this strange.



I have since requested many times meetings with the Club through Mr Hebberd, I have provided the Club with 5 signed witness statements of what actually happened and have send and left messages for explanations/ clarification on my exclusion, am I to continue to pay my membership fee, can I sell my seat on an individual game basis, can I sub-let my seat, would my seat be vacant or do the Club plan to sell or seat people there……none of these issues have been responded too. To date, I have received the exclusion letter and 2 emails and responses from the Club do not reflect what is stated within the Club’s customer charter. To make matters much worse my membership card has been deactivated and does not work, the card also has funds on it which I cannot access and the Club continue to take £92 out of my account each month.



As mentioned previously, the matter has now transferred into my professional work. I sit at the Amex with one of my Firm’s Partners, who is a lifelong Albion fan as well as a major Client of our Firm. Keeping this quiet, especially now I have missed 3 home games has become impossible. Unfortunately, both the Partner and the Client had left and missed the incident, however being called into the boardroom to explain this has damaged my personal character, my professional integrity and jeopardising my future prospects at the Firm.

The letter I received from the Club was also c.c’d to Sussex Police, I find this strange as the exclusion from the Amex is a civil matter not a legal one, this in my opinion has also been detrimental to my character.



I consider myself a diehard fan that has committed everything to the Club, be it finically, through support or on the many occasions where marches, letter writing, partitions etc, were required to help in doing my bit to save the Albion and get us to the Amex.



I feel I have been treated very unfairly by the Club, not even being given the opportunity to present for my side of events. However, it is heartening to read many supportive comments and posts on the 1901….your thoughts so far thread, as well as reading some of the peoples statements of what they witnessed happened during the incident, none of which mention an assault of either the Palace fan or the individuals who came down. For these posts I am very grateful.



The FL are currently reviewing my appeal and have given me a deadline of 7th December 2011 to come back to me after contacting the Club, there is another 2 home matches before this decision deadline. As mentioned, I have attempted to keep this matter between the Club and me, but now it is out and I can’t dialog with the Club, the FL have been contacted.



There are other issues that have also been ignored by the Club which cannot be covered here, apologies for the illiteracies but I have thrown this together before I start work I probably won’t respond to question as I don’t used NSC nowadays, last time I used it was the old message board in the 90’s where the threads just fell of the bottom on the page never to be seen again. If you managed to make it this far……well done and thanks for taking the time to read.

i can almost imagine it , some jumped up jobsworth after a gold star..........just plain wrong ...!!

 

[Questions]

Who was the local twit who thought it a good idea to invite a Palace fan to sit in there in the first place. A PALACE fan I ask you. That night.
So it kind of proves the point that the 1901`s have a whole load of people sitting in there who are not real Brighton fans.
I`ve got friends who are Palace fans, who I could quite happily watch a game of football with. But not THAT game.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Again, don't have the time or inclination to go through all of this thread but just to make my point from the other thread clearer. I have no idea whether this individual is the one involved in the incident I described or not. I have no desire or time to discuss whether away fans should be allowed in and, if so, allowed to celebrate. All I do know is that, despite the fact that the older of the 4 Palace fans next to me got far too mouthy when abused and should have been escorted out earlier, the behaviour of at least one and probably two Brighton "supporters" I witnessed that night was more than enough for a ban to be issued. I can't say if the bans issued are just are not - all I know is that those two middle aged gentleman abusing the Palace family in the front row of the middle tier towards the South Stand thoroughly deserved a ban IMHO. It being Palace is no excuse. The "stewarding" (One 9 stone guy with a staff lanyard and a 60 year old woman steward) being pathetic is no excuse. Assault is a crime wherever it occurs. As with homophobia/racism/abuse, some people on here seem to think that being in a football ground is a license to break rules/laws.

I am saddened if someone has been banned who didn't deserve it. But don't be fooled into thinking that all Albion supporters in 1901 that evening were angels and that it was all the nasty Palace lot that caused the trouble. What I saw was a family of Palace fans standing up and applauding a goal by their team. A volley of abuse from a 50ish obvious 70's throwback Brighton "fan". Biting from the older Palace fan (very inadvisable but probably the default response of many on here). No more celebrations at the second and third Palace goals from the family but a maybe ill-advised decision to stay and gently applaud their team off. Followed by two Neanderthal types clambering over seats to continue the discussion from earlier. After more posturing, vile abuse and finger pointing, the moron older Palace fan biting again and the inability of some people to cope with defeat over which they have no control, the situation escalated with Brighton fans trying to calm the situation down being offered out by fellow "supporters". At this point, I turned away to walk up the now clear stairway, only to receive a blow on the arm (Glancing blow but enough to cause a bruise) which, on turning, clearly come from the Neanderthal being restrained from an ongoing scuffle.

I repeat, whatever the rights and wrongs of many factors, the simple fact remains that it was Brighton fans who started this particular scuffle and behaved in a manner that was contrary to several Ground regulations and more than worth of exclusion. If the club have not been able to get the right people then that is a real shame and I cannot comment on this particular individual. Major changes need to be made but this does not excuse the behaviour of a few individuals that night. As I said in my previous post, I am glad that I didn't lose my temper. I am not a violent man but I am a big man and have a vile temper if provoked. Had I really been injured I would have lost it and probably ended up getting a kicking and a ban. And I treated myself to this seat because I thought that at 40, I prefer to enjoy football as entertainment in comfort. I've served my time on terraces at Halifax and Sudbury. I want to be watching good football in nice surroundings with a great seat amongst nice people. I don't want to pay £90 a month to sit in the middle of a bar brawl because people can't take their beer/their team losing/both.

It's not in my nature to report incidents like this but neither will I shed any tears if people who behave the way these two behaved are excluded from the ground.

 

[Bold Seagull]

There's an appeal under way and given the lack of any meaningful evidence (CCTV) and given in this country I thought it was a case on "innocent until proven guilty" then surely the burden of proof is on the club and regardless, he should be allowed into the ground until such time as the appeal concludes.

It's not a criminal case though is it, it's the exclusion from private grounds by a privately owned club. There is no burden of proof required if they feel their rules have been breached. They are in the service industry however, and therefore should be operating with an even and fair hand, which may or may not be the case here.

I as an individual would not tap a visiting supporter on the shoulder to ask why they were in my or the home stand unless I was looking for confrontation of some sort. I'm not saying this Palace fan didn't deserve to be asked or told that his presence and celebrations were out of order, but those points being made in the heated aftermath of an emotionally charged game were to instigate that confrontation whether just verbal or otherwise. If in other circumstances the Palace fan was to have reacted with threatening or violent behaviour, then the only outcome is you defend yourself, and you're both going to be banned or worse.

As sad and as brown nosingly bland as this sounds, the only course of action to have sensibly taken was to have noted the seat numbers and complained directly to the club as to why they were sat there, and the owners of the seat questioned accordingly. Taping the guy on the shoulder, no matter how well intentioned was always going to have the potential to end badly as has been the case.

 

[portlock seagull]

The only case like this I've heard of before, was the sid one, which was (I thought obviously) a wind up.

I would disagree the it's a fact that the club has got the wrong person or the wrong facts. All we've got here is one person's side of the story. I think it's unfair to slag off the club when that's all we have to go on. Reading the other thread on this earlier, there were either several incidents and so it's hard to know who is giving their accounts of which one, or several people on here saw the incident completely different to how it has been presented (though some have also claimed it was pretty much the same as it is reported here). With so many contradictory reports, how can you judge the club to be wrong as a fact?

Though, I agree it shouldn't be dismissed as 'playground nonsense'.

So much on here is clouding the issue because too many people have made interpretations themselves prior to the fan stating what actually happened. There's 2 sides to the Holocaust too if you listen to some idiots! The 2-sides to EVERY argument doesn't always hold water with me because it actually strengthens the one that's wrong, inaccurate or even just plan lies in many ways simply because people use it to create, in legal parlance, an element of doubt. And then walk away scot free (as the Palace fan is doing)

I'll give you an example. I once tried to help a train driver being attacked by some drunken thug. He then assaulted me. When the police came they said the drunk was now saying I'd assaulted his girlfriend (who I was completely oblivious to at the time) to create a reasonable line of defence and doubt in their minds. Said thug successfully avoided prosecution and any further action by doing this because the Police said they knew he was lying, but it would mean we'd BOTH have to get arrested and charged and the due process would take months, if not years, and they advised me just to drop it and go home. It wouldn't be worth my hassle. So that was his "2 sides to every story" - completely false and inaccurate.

Train driver, conductor and platform attendent all thanked me and paid for a taxi to take me home so I didn't have to wait 50mins for the connecting service so wasn't all bad!!

 

[portlock seagull]

Again, don't have the time or inclination to go through all of this thread but..... QUOTE] you're going to cast judgement all the same? Lots of people on here not prepared to familarise themselves with the events...but are prepared to pass comment, especially using the 2 sides to every story line as if it's some sort of indispuitable defence. I wonder why lawyers don't just repeat this in court over and over again? Works on NSC!

 

[brakespear]

We have still only heard 1 side of the story! Naming names and slagging off people at the club will not help this guy at all!

If and when a statement is given out from the club, then maybe we can all make informed comments!

I wish a fellow supporter all the best in his quest to clear his name if the club have wronged him, but until all the facts become clear I reckon we should be careful about what we post!


Sent from my iPhone using P+ R

This.

 

[portlock seagull]

No, but the said Palace fan is clearly with a lady and a child (perhaps his wife and own kid), and I'm pretty sure any Brighton fan tapping a Palace on the shoulder on the way out after losing 3-1 is not going to be asking in the same tone as "excuse me, is this seat free please".

Lady? From Croydon? Child was feral and you know it Hence the language Palace man used in front of his offspring

 

[Nibble]

So much on here is clouding the issue because too many people have made interpretations themselves prior to the fan stating what actually happened. There's 2 sides to the Holocaust too if you listen to some idiots! The 2-sides to EVERY argument doesn't always hold water with me because it actually strengthens the one that's wrong, inaccurate or even just plan lies in many ways simply because people use it to create, in legal parlance, an element of doubt. And then walk away scot free (as the Palace fan is doing)

I'll give you an example. I once tried to help a train driver being attacked by some drunken thug. He then assaulted me. When the police came they said the drunk was now saying I'd assaulted his girlfriend (who I was completely oblivious to at the time) to create a reasonable line of defence and doubt in their minds. Said thug successfully avoided prosecution and any further action by doing this because the Police said they knew he was lying, but it would mean we'd BOTH have to get arrested and charged and the due process would take months, if not years, and they advised me just to drop it and go home. It wouldn't be worth my hassle. So that was his "2 sides to every story" - completely false and inaccurate.

Train driver, conductor and platform attendent all thanked me and paid for a taxi to take me home so I didn't have to wait 50mins for the connecting service so wasn't all bad!!

That's not the same thing at all. We haven't even heard he other side of the story on this have we? Both sides of the story were heard in your train kerfuffle and a judgement was made, rightly or wrongly. But then we only have your word about that don't we you see there's two sides to every story. As an aside most debates are over as soon as someione starts using the holocaust/Hitler argument. It's lazy, innaccurate and doesn't hold up to scrutiny or comparison as it is so abstracted from most arguments as to render it childish, redundant and actually somewhat offensive.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

This was a situation that was bound to happen at some point in the season. Corporate hospitality either entertaining clients or handing out tickets inevitably means having away fans in the 1901 areas. My theory is that the club do not want to follow a line of inquiry that leads to upsetting someone important in the business community. Without any CCTV evidence I think the witness account from an off duty police officer is all too damming and virtually impossible to overturn by appeal.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Again, don't have the time or inclination to go through all of this thread but..... QUOTE] you're going to cast judgement all the same? Lots of people on here not prepared to familarise themselves with the events...but are prepared to pass comment, especially using the 2 sides to every story line as if it's some sort of indispuitable defence. I wonder why lawyers don't just repeat this in court over and over again? Works on NSC!

Try reading it all. I make no comment on this individual as I have no idea if he was involved or not.

 

[portlock seagull]

Who was the local twit who thought it a good idea to invite a Palace fan to sit in there in the first place. A PALACE fan I ask you. That night.
So it kind of proves the point that the 1901`s have a whole load of people sitting in there who are not real Brighton fans.
I`ve got friends who are Palace fans, who I could quite happily watch a game of football with. But not THAT game.

I would loved to have taken several of my good friends who are palace fans. It's such a shame though that you can't, in football, do so. I'd have been hoping mad of course, they'd have been teasing me all the way home and I'd have been in a sulk. But it's because you can't vouch for other members of the public confronting them if they found out they were Palace fans that such ridiculous situations such as this occur. Sad isn't it? I'm off to watch Rugby...

 

[portlock seagull]

Try reading it all. I make no comment on this individual as I have no idea if he was involved or not.

Sorry, don't have time or inclination to go through your whole post - what are you trying to say?

 

[Bold Seagull]

you're going to cast judgement all the same? Lots of people on here not prepared to familarise themselves with the events...but are prepared to pass comment, especially using the 2 sides to every story line as if it's some sort of indispuitable defence. I wonder why lawyers don't just repeat this in court over and over again? Works on NSC!

Isn't the English justice system based on the adversarial process of pitting a prosecution against a defence? The whole basis of law is based on 2 sides to every story...

 

[Sheebo]

Away fans shouldn't be allowed in the home end, 1901 or not, end of. Inevitably those using 1901 as a corporate business type of client entertainment may well bring the odd 'away' fan along to a game but the 'away' fan should then have some respect and not jump up or make themselves known IMO. I know I wouldn't. It's a respect thing as well as a causing aggro thing. That's why there's segregation. Let alone the fact these were Palace fans in the Brighton end. Anywhere else in the ground they'd have been lobbed out and rightly given grief for celebrating etc.

 

[Mr NFA]

I dont believe it for one minute.