Rusthall Seagull
New member
because she may work for Mi5 or be an undercover 'reporter' for the Croydon Post
Croydon newspapers carrying prostitute ads 'complicit in sex trafficking', say campaigners From Your Local Guardian)
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Response from fan banned from 1901
- Thread starter H2O
- Start date
- Status
because she may work for Mi5 or be an undercover 'reporter' for the Croydon Post
Croydon newspapers carrying prostitute ads 'complicit in sex trafficking', say campaigners From Your Local Guardian)
OK. Misunderstood your post.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,609
We're all born with a natural reflexes mate! Or are you the only person who can have that dart of air blasted into your eyeball at the opticians without blinking?
As he said, he put hims hands up in defence when the Palace thug threatended him. If you want to get all technical, the assault started when the Palace fans shouted abuse at him. That's threatening violent behaviour - you don't have to touch someone to be convicted of assault you know! Still good to know who you're next to in the trenches and all that. Hopefully we're in different ones because you certainly aren't one of a community cause by the sounds of it?!!
As I stated, there is a camera hanging from the west stand roof. I have no doubt it would be able to zoom in to any seat in the west stand, but what makes you think it would've been zoomed in on that spot at that point in time? It's not an HD camera, it can't watch the whole stand at once, in minute detail.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,609
Is this Simster?
We're all born with a natural reflexes mate! Or are you the only person who can have that dart of air blasted into your eyeball at the opticians without blinking?
Still good to know who you're next to in the trenches and all that. Hopefully we're in different ones because you certainly aren't one of a community cause by the sounds of it?!!
I think you quoted the wrong person there. H2O was quoting someone else (but didn't have the quote mark up).
EDIT: H2O was quoting nibble Response from fan banned from 1901 - Page 6
Jeez, this is a massive can of worms.
I have no issue with club officials being mentioned on NSC - they always have and always will. If however you are going to make wild, unfounded and uninformed accusations about club officials, or anyone for that matter, you better be prepared to stand behind them if the law ever comes calling.
Vilifying Richard Hebberd as some sort of one man judge, jury and executioner when it comes to matters surrounding attendance at the Albion is completely wrong.
I've made the mistake in the past of commenting, strongly, on something similar to this I didn't know enough about so I hope I've learned from that and try to refrain from making the same mistake again. Many people are doing that on this thread.
Finally, I really don't believe this particular incident has been concluded yet, and I'm certainly going to wait until it has before I pass any more comment at all.
I have no issue with club officials being mentioned on NSC - they always have and always will. If however you are going to make wild, unfounded and uninformed accusations about club officials, or anyone for that matter, you better be prepared to stand behind them if the law ever comes calling.
Vilifying Richard Hebberd as some sort of one man judge, jury and executioner when it comes to matters surrounding attendance at the Albion is completely wrong.
I've made the mistake in the past of commenting, strongly, on something similar to this I didn't know enough about so I hope I've learned from that and try to refrain from making the same mistake again. Many people are doing that on this thread.
Finally, I really don't believe this particular incident has been concluded yet, and I'm certainly going to wait until it has before I pass any more comment at all.
Yes. (I accept I've probably made the same mistake in the past as you are making now)
It is not the FACTS that matter
It reads like a personality conflict in a private club. It happens in pubs.
Not all conflicts can be resolved. However, would you like to know some tips to help you resolve more conflicts that might border on bullying but are more 'difficult' as opposed to actual bullying in the workplace? Here they are:
1. Avoidance
A refusal to engage or solve.
Most prevalent.
Example:
A very obvious verbal attack occurs, and the target, due to fear, simply walks away (but they wished they could have 'done something').
While this obviously is not a good way of dealing with difficult situations or bullying, it is worth being considered as a strategy for when the conflict is 'just not worth the effort' of being addressed. It is also worth it to walk away when the power balance between individuals is not even and saying something might make things worse.
2. Accommodation
Taking the conflict and submitting.
Going along with the conflict by seeing it as more advantageous to support the other person at this time.
Example:
Listening to unhelpful criticism and believing it.
Very frequently used, especially where there is low confidence and self-esteem. This is another poor method of dealing with difficult conflicts at work, but it may do if you know that there is a solution coming soon, or you believe submitting may get you further.
3. Compete
You push hard to get your own way in the conflict, without regard for the other's needs.
Example:
You are very upset with someone, and when they try to explain their situation, you cut them off and over-explain your point in order to gain control.
This can be very useful when the conflict is mild and you are passionate about your stance, but can lead to a vicious circle as the conflict escalates.
4. Compromise
This is more win-win, and requires the goodwill of both parties. You don't give in to the conflict, but rather work out a solution somewhere between the two sides.
Example:
One person wants to order a type of food and the other person wants another type of food. Both compromise and order something totally different.
This can lead to the downfall of the actual solution leaving none of the sides happy. Sometimes no one wins.
5. Collaborate
The most useful tactic, particularly with extreme conflict and workplace bullying. The aim here is to focus on working together to arrive at a solution, where both sides have ownership of and commitment to the solution.
Example 1:
You and someone else are at completely opposed viewpoints over a project. You sit down and work out why they believe in their point of view, and explain your own. Clever and lateral thinking can provide a solution, which answers both sides, but is not a compromise.
Example 2:
Someone is being difficult at work. You talk to this person using the strategies below and collaborate on modifying their behavior.
Use this strategy when the goal is to meet as many of the current needs as is possible. This can be the most difficult strategy if confidence is low, as it involves naming the issue to the conflict-creator, which can cause anxiety and fear.
To collaborate successfully on an issue such as continuing conflict you need to follow a few basic guidelines:
You must recognize that (maybe) part of the problem is your own fault: you allowed it to happen and did not try to address it to begin with. You can state this aloud and actively take part of the responsibility, as this will put the onus onto the other person to take the other part of the responsibility.
Remember that we frequently don't like in others what we don't want to see in ourselves, but occasionally find anyway. Be very sure that you have not committed the same conflict/offense.
Manage yourself during the resolution attempt - learn calming strategies if you are hot-tempered, or confidence boosters if you are shy. Try not to be emotional, as emotion will only make things escalate, and put a further wedge between parties. It is your responsibility to manage yourself; anything less, we are putting our unnecessary 'stuff' on the other.
Maintain eye contact and use your body language to convey your belief in what you are saying. Don't fiddle with something nervously, don't cross your arms protectively, and don't put yourself on a lower level than the other person (such as sitting on a lower chair). Our body language shows our heart. Is your heart showing the desire to collaborate?
Don't believe that the best defense is a good offense - that is part of the competing strategy. Comebacks and not acknowledging another's point of view are also part of competing: listen to the other side as they have just as much of a right to share as you do. Seek first to understand.
Work the issue, not the person: this means addressing the behavior rather than the entire existence of that person. There is a different level of ownership for behaviors, and people will take less offence if you address their behavior than if you criticize them personally. Never lay blame, as this will only fan the fires. Check your heart: can you separate the person from the performance?
If you are not getting anywhere, ask for further information from the other person about the reasons for their behavior, but don't ask the questions with 'why' at the beginning - if you do, this will actively put the other person under the spotlight and they will get defensive.
PS: If you sincerely feel you cannot resolve a conflict due to being very emotionally upset, then own this fact and ask for forgiveness of not being able to resolve the conflict at the moment. These are your emotions and they must be owned by you. Again, separate the person from the situation. This allows us to have hope in moving through difficult situations.
Above all, remember that people who enjoy creating conflict are ultimately power-seekers who enjoy controlling others. Frequently this is because either they have suffered in a similar way before, or feel that they have very little control over their own lives and they do anything they can to feel in control. A little compassion will take you a long way both in resolving the situation and in putting it behind you when it is resolved. After all, what is the alternative? It's time for extending the olive branch...but be careful it doesn't get burned off!
Valerie Cade, CSP is a Workplace Bullying Expert, Speaker and Author of "Bully Free at Work: What You Can Do To Stop Workplace Bullying Now!" which has been distributed in over 100 countries worldwide. For presentations and consulting on workplace bullying prevention and respectful workplace implementation, go to
Bully Free at Work.
You have permission to use the above article in your newsletter, publication or email system. We ask you not to edit the content and that you leave the links and resource box intact. © Bully Free at Work. All rights reserved.
Bully Free At Work - Head Office
Suite 356, 1500 - 14 Street NW
Calgary, Alberta
T3C 1C9
Canada
It reads like a personality conflict in a private club. It happens in pubs.
Not all conflicts can be resolved. However, would you like to know some tips to help you resolve more conflicts that might border on bullying but are more 'difficult' as opposed to actual bullying in the workplace? Here they are:
1. Avoidance
A refusal to engage or solve.
Most prevalent.
Example:
A very obvious verbal attack occurs, and the target, due to fear, simply walks away (but they wished they could have 'done something').
While this obviously is not a good way of dealing with difficult situations or bullying, it is worth being considered as a strategy for when the conflict is 'just not worth the effort' of being addressed. It is also worth it to walk away when the power balance between individuals is not even and saying something might make things worse.
2. Accommodation
Taking the conflict and submitting.
Going along with the conflict by seeing it as more advantageous to support the other person at this time.
Example:
Listening to unhelpful criticism and believing it.
Very frequently used, especially where there is low confidence and self-esteem. This is another poor method of dealing with difficult conflicts at work, but it may do if you know that there is a solution coming soon, or you believe submitting may get you further.
3. Compete
You push hard to get your own way in the conflict, without regard for the other's needs.
Example:
You are very upset with someone, and when they try to explain their situation, you cut them off and over-explain your point in order to gain control.
This can be very useful when the conflict is mild and you are passionate about your stance, but can lead to a vicious circle as the conflict escalates.
4. Compromise
This is more win-win, and requires the goodwill of both parties. You don't give in to the conflict, but rather work out a solution somewhere between the two sides.
Example:
One person wants to order a type of food and the other person wants another type of food. Both compromise and order something totally different.
This can lead to the downfall of the actual solution leaving none of the sides happy. Sometimes no one wins.
5. Collaborate
The most useful tactic, particularly with extreme conflict and workplace bullying. The aim here is to focus on working together to arrive at a solution, where both sides have ownership of and commitment to the solution.
Example 1:
You and someone else are at completely opposed viewpoints over a project. You sit down and work out why they believe in their point of view, and explain your own. Clever and lateral thinking can provide a solution, which answers both sides, but is not a compromise.
Example 2:
Someone is being difficult at work. You talk to this person using the strategies below and collaborate on modifying their behavior.
Use this strategy when the goal is to meet as many of the current needs as is possible. This can be the most difficult strategy if confidence is low, as it involves naming the issue to the conflict-creator, which can cause anxiety and fear.
To collaborate successfully on an issue such as continuing conflict you need to follow a few basic guidelines:
You must recognize that (maybe) part of the problem is your own fault: you allowed it to happen and did not try to address it to begin with. You can state this aloud and actively take part of the responsibility, as this will put the onus onto the other person to take the other part of the responsibility.
Remember that we frequently don't like in others what we don't want to see in ourselves, but occasionally find anyway. Be very sure that you have not committed the same conflict/offense.
Manage yourself during the resolution attempt - learn calming strategies if you are hot-tempered, or confidence boosters if you are shy. Try not to be emotional, as emotion will only make things escalate, and put a further wedge between parties. It is your responsibility to manage yourself; anything less, we are putting our unnecessary 'stuff' on the other.
Maintain eye contact and use your body language to convey your belief in what you are saying. Don't fiddle with something nervously, don't cross your arms protectively, and don't put yourself on a lower level than the other person (such as sitting on a lower chair). Our body language shows our heart. Is your heart showing the desire to collaborate?
Don't believe that the best defense is a good offense - that is part of the competing strategy. Comebacks and not acknowledging another's point of view are also part of competing: listen to the other side as they have just as much of a right to share as you do. Seek first to understand.
Work the issue, not the person: this means addressing the behavior rather than the entire existence of that person. There is a different level of ownership for behaviors, and people will take less offence if you address their behavior than if you criticize them personally. Never lay blame, as this will only fan the fires. Check your heart: can you separate the person from the performance?
If you are not getting anywhere, ask for further information from the other person about the reasons for their behavior, but don't ask the questions with 'why' at the beginning - if you do, this will actively put the other person under the spotlight and they will get defensive.
PS: If you sincerely feel you cannot resolve a conflict due to being very emotionally upset, then own this fact and ask for forgiveness of not being able to resolve the conflict at the moment. These are your emotions and they must be owned by you. Again, separate the person from the situation. This allows us to have hope in moving through difficult situations.
Above all, remember that people who enjoy creating conflict are ultimately power-seekers who enjoy controlling others. Frequently this is because either they have suffered in a similar way before, or feel that they have very little control over their own lives and they do anything they can to feel in control. A little compassion will take you a long way both in resolving the situation and in putting it behind you when it is resolved. After all, what is the alternative? It's time for extending the olive branch...but be careful it doesn't get burned off!
Valerie Cade, CSP is a Workplace Bullying Expert, Speaker and Author of "Bully Free at Work: What You Can Do To Stop Workplace Bullying Now!" which has been distributed in over 100 countries worldwide. For presentations and consulting on workplace bullying prevention and respectful workplace implementation, go to
Bully Free at Work.
You have permission to use the above article in your newsletter, publication or email system. We ask you not to edit the content and that you leave the links and resource box intact. © Bully Free at Work. All rights reserved.
Bully Free At Work - Head Office
Suite 356, 1500 - 14 Street NW
Calgary, Alberta
T3C 1C9
Canada
Last edited:
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
What a sorry saga all of this is.....had this have happened to me I think I would have got as many witness accounts as possible and left it to my solicitor to sort out.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,609
Ow, I don't know what's what anymore with respect to who's quoting who on whatever thread, especially if people aren't doing it properly.
I just think it's extremely unfair and we've seen cases like this before. It's not a question of judgement about the sentenace, its the fact the club have clearly got the wrong person and facts. It could happen to anyone, and that's what's frightening. It's like when you see one both players sent off because the ref arrived late on the scene and the bloke defending himself was deemed as guilty so ref decides to book both! This poor bloke seems a total victim of circumstance. His only crime was to initiate a conversation and it sounds like the club are almost protecting the Palace guy. I'd like to know what action has been taken against him. At the very least, the club should give back the money on his card.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,609
But how do we know this is actually you Simster?
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
Dont think the OP's friend did himself any favours by approaching the Palace fan afterwards and tapping him on the shoulder.
Why? Was he going to belt him one? Give him a bollocking? Not excusing the Palace fans alleged behaviour earlier but f*** off would be a response I would have given in that situation if it was me.
Why? Was he going to belt him one? Give him a bollocking? Not excusing the Palace fans alleged behaviour earlier but f*** off would be a response I would have given in that situation if it was me.
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
1 Divide head first into the most drama laden thread.
2 Slightly Fay responce to your last post.
Yep thats him.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,609
Agree! I think in 10 years time we'll all be walking round with cameras in our glasses etc recording everything and anything to protect ourselves from unfounded allegations like this. Surprised teachers don't do this already for example. I've seen football stewards make unfounded accusations and threaten people when asked a perfectly polite and reasonable question/challenge. Experienced this once at the Withdean many moons ago. Another steward eventually intervened, dragged his colleague away and came back and apologised to me for his behaviour! Left me a little shaken if I'm honest.
Hillian1
( . ) ( . )
Does any of this revolve around the young stewards version of events?
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,609
Blimey, that's a leap from situation 1 to situation 47 in the list of possible outcomes! I hope I never tap you on the shoulder and ask if you'd like a seat on the train just in case!!
It is sad and this is what bothers me about it. Clearly the fella is a long standing (and long suffering) Albion fan, of that there's no doubt, nor do I assume there's any "history". Also he says he has signed statements saying he did nothing untoward. The club have chosen to exclude him based on observations made by one or more yet the fella has other (independent?) observations which contradict. There's an appeal under way and given the lack of any meaningful evidence (CCTV) and given in this country I thought it was a case on "innocent until proven guilty" then surely the burden of proof is on the club and regardless, he should be allowed into the ground until such time as the appeal concludes.
Yes we have only got one side of the story here but if that's an accurate and honest account then there's some pretty fundamental principals that are seemingly not being observed, which horrifies me
Yes we have only got one side of the story here but if that's an accurate and honest account then there's some pretty fundamental principals that are seemingly not being observed, which horrifies me
Czechmate
Well-known member
No , i witnessed it all in the stand , i was behind them along a bit and i did not leave early either ! I could not believe how aggressive he was to the guy behind , as to say this is my stadium what is a Brighton fan like you doing here ! Did not see the confrontation of the 2 guys on the way out though ! How i controlled myself i will never know , well i nearly didn't .
c0lz
North East Stand.
Apparently there are 70 odd camera's
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