Recruitment policy

[hans kraay fan club]

You clearly haven't got a clue what I was suggesting! A lot of these are unknowns. There are a lot more questions than that you could ask.

An old grammar trick from primary school - a question mark denotes a question. Not an answer.

Whatever. I was simply countering the populist view, so as to inform, as what I've heard suggsts that the populist view is wrong.

You know what you were suggesting (rather than asking). I know. Everyone else knows.
Argue over semantics all you like.

I'm bored.

 

[Triggaaar]

Successive managers, both decent coaches, have now either said, or clearly implied, that they are not happy with this aspect of the club and that they are not being given the tools to do the job.

Gus wanted us to spend millions more than we were. There's not yet any evidence that Oscar has said or implied that he's not happy with how the club recruits players.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Whatever. I was simply countering the populist view, so as to inform, as what I've heard suggsts that the populist view is wrong.

You know what you were suggesting (rather than asking). I know. Everyone else knows.
Argue over semantics all you like.

I'm bored.

Well stop raising boring and ridiculous arguments to points that weren't made and you might be a bit happier.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Gus wanted us to spend millions more than we were. There's not yet any evidence that Oscar has said or implied that he's not happy with how the club recruits players.

He has implied that, if you look back at what he has said post-match in recent weeks. It has been clouded in ambiguity, and could certainly mean one of several things and be aimed at various people. It could be that he feels too involved/not involved enough, it could be budgets, anything, but for whatever reason he doesn't feel he has had the players to challenge. Possibly finishing in the playoffs has clouded the issue. If we had finished 10th (as we could have, easily) it might have been more noticeable.

 

[Triggaaar]

if you look back at what he has said post-match in recent weeks. It has been clouded in ambiguity, and could certainly mean one of several things and be aimed at various people. It could be that he feels too involved/not involved enough, it could be budgets, anything, but for whatever reason he doesn't feel he has had the players to challenge.

Maybe he hasn't had the players because they've all been injured. Like you say, it completely ambiguous and could mean anything, which is why it makes no sense for you to say he's "clearly implied" he's not happy with our recruitment.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Gus wanted us to spend millions more than we were. There's not yet any evidence that Oscar has said or implied that he's not happy with how the club recruits players.

I thought that the comment about the only Championship club being left weaker in the January window was implying the recruitment/getting players was at fault.

 

[Kevlar]

swapping mangers regularly seems to be the norm theses days
some clubs seem to do it twice a season.
We can not be surprised if managers jump at bigger pay days
if they lose a run of games they are sacked
if they do alright results wise but do not play how the fans want
they can still be sacked (maybe west ham this year)
The fact that no team in the championship is breaking even shows 2 things
1 football teams are not run like other firms
2 players and other staff earn too much money
Will FFP change that I am not sure
parachute payments and sponsorship deals may be as important
as fan revenue.
The worry is deprived of revenue from rich owners clubs will be seeking more from fans
It seems many fans on here are happy to pay more to bring in better players
presumably on better wages but hopefully FFP will create a financial ceiling for all clubs
but some ceilings will be higher than others

 

[Triggaaar]

I thought that the comment about the only Championship club being left weaker in the January window was implying the recruitment/getting players was at fault.

That certainly meant we didn't have a good transfer window. But having a bad window doesn't mean the policy is bad. We sold a couple of players and got money in, and failed to get Grabban. But did the club say to him he'd be able to spend the money in the summer instead? Who knows. I have no idea if he's resigning or not, and I have no idea if he thinks our recruitment policy is good or bad.

 

[westy]

[/B][/U]its strange how a club like Burnley can manage their finances and look as though they have stayed within FFP and sail into the premiership with out any problems with a much smaller fan base than us and even buy one of our players who we never replaced adequately. no sorry something is inherently wrong.
and now is the time to get it sorted

Quite.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Even allowing for the normal ratio of signings that don't work out we've had what seems a high percentage of odd deals:

1. Kemy Agustien - started the season, then hardly figured after the early weeks, but seemed to be pencilled in as a starter when signed.
2. David Rodriguez - Spanish, but not rated by Oscar. Lingard came in to play the identical position in the side.
3. Leroy Lita - never given a chance by Oscar.

These are on the back of the decision to re-sign Vicente but never play him in Yr 2 and the discarding and subsequent sale of Dobbie.

As for Grabban, was this a Burke signing that Oscar didn't fancy, or vice versa? As a career move, Grabban sticking with Bournemouth seems short-sighted because a) we reached the play-offs, they didn't, and b) we brought in a forward (Lingard) who hardly missed a match for the remainder of the season. The same applies to Conway, who would have got game-time instead of Buckley / March. We certainly had the cash because we sold Bridcutt and Barnes, maybe it's the fact the wages policy is too restrictive?

A lot of this makes no sense on the face of it, but certainly looks like a recruitment policy issue is at the root of it.

 

[Seasider78]

Even allowing for the normal ratio of signings that don't work out we've had what seems a high percentage of odd deals:

1. Kemy Agustien - started the season, then hardly figured after the early weeks, but seemed to be pencilled in as a starter when signed.
2. David Rodriguez - Spanish, but not rated by Oscar. Lingard came in to play the identical position in the side.
3. Leroy Lita - never given a chance by Oscar.

These are on the back of the decision to re-sign Vicente but never play him in Yr 2 and the discarding and subsequent sale of Dobbie.

As for Grabban, was this a Burke signing that Oscar didn't fancy, or vice versa? As a career move, Grabban sticking with Bournemouth seems short-sighted because a) we reached the play-offs, they didn't, and b) we brought in a forward (Lingard) who hardly missed a match for the remainder of the season. The same applies to Conway, who would have got game-time instead of Buckley / March. We certainly had the cash because we sold Bridcutt and Barnes, maybe it's the fact the wages policy is too restrictive?

A lot of this makes no sense on the face of it, but certainly looks like a recruitment policy issue is at the root of it.

I don't think it's the policy it is the money. When we have been reporting large losses we were bringing in big names like Vicente, bridge, upson, Ulloa, Bruno etc.

Maybe the cloth is being cut and our recruitment team have to source less expensive players and take more gambles.

Kemy aside those players you mention are short term loans with lita released at the end of his deal and Rodriguez being out of contract this summer. I would be more concerned if this were expensive permanent or longer term loan deals.

I would expect us to do better business this summer with more time on our hands and the bridcutt and Barnes money in the coffers.

Our recruitment is like all clubs at this level a bit hit and miss but we have sourced some excellent players at this level and just highlighting the few duds is not really a fair reflection of the recruitment team

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The strikes against him are often dull and unadventurous football, and dropping a lot of points against inferior teams, and unspectacular recruitment.

And often a bizarre use of subs.

 

[spanish flair]

Why on earth does that matter?

Would you rather have an experienced top level player, like Dean Windass or Jimmy Bullard, over an experienced scout?

Bad signings happen, that's part of the game, but we've had some corkers as well.

I do go along with the view that if you are yourself, or have been a player at top level and played a long career playing with top players, then I think you would recognise a good player. But then you try to infer that Burke is a top scout, now if you really look at his previous positions and not just the clubs he worked for, the claim he was a top scout for any of them is a bit far fetched in my view. What I will say is, he has worked for one of the top scouts in the country in Les Reid at both Fulham and Southampton, but being an apprentice to him does not mean Burke is also a top scout.

 

[glasfryn]

I don't think it's the policy it is the money. When we have been reporting large losses we were bringing in big names like Vicente, bridge, upson, Ulloa, Bruno etc.

Maybe the cloth is being cut and our recruitment team have to source less expensive players and take more gambles.

Kemy aside those players you mention are short term loans with lita released at the end of his deal and Rodriguez being out of contract this summer. I would be more concerned if this were expensive permanent or longer term loan deals.

I would expect us to do better business this summer with more time on our hands and the bridcutt and Barnes money in the coffers.

Our recruitment is like all clubs at this level a bit hit and miss but we have sourced some excellent players at this level and just highlighting the few duds is not really a fair reflection of the recruitment team

we sourced Craig Conway and Grabban and they were to expensive apparently and one its is said was not signed because of the length of the contract.
two very good players and we might and I say might have done a lot better had they signed and I for one would like someone to explain to me why we let then slip through our hands when we had just sold Bridders and Barnes

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You clearly haven't got a clue what I was suggesting! A lot of these are unknowns. There are a lot more questions than that you could ask.

An old grammar trick from primary school - a question mark denotes a question. Not an answer.

Apart from when it's a rhetorical question.

 

[Seasider78]

we sourced Craig Conway and Grabban and they were to expensive apparently and one its is said was not signed because of the length of the contract.
two very good players and we might and I say might have done a lot better had they signed and I for one would like someone to explain to me why we let then slip through our hands when we had just sold Bridders and Barnes

I agree with you but given the recruitment team sourced those players I am not sure why they are being blamed for us not securing them. If it is down to money then we need to look elsewhere.

I just don't understand this constant criticism of the team who up until this season everyone seemed happy with who was coming in. If something has changed it is more likely to be in budget or relationship with the head coach as they seemed perfectly capable of bringing in quality under poyet.

That said somehow it is being assumed this is oscars reason for asking to leave for all we know he has another job offer!!

 

[glasfryn]

I agree with you but given the recruitment team sourced those players I am not sure why they are being blamed for us not securing them. If it is down to money then we need to look elsewhere.

I just don't understand this constant criticism of the team who up until this season everyone seemed happy with who was coming in. If something has changed it is more likely to be in budget or relationship with the head coach as they seemed perfectly capable of bringing in quality under poyet.

That said somehow it is being assumed this is oscars reason for asking to leave for all we know he has another job offer!!

listen two months ago I would have got rid of him in a heartbeat, but since then he has shown some considerable passion for the Albion and the team , I am happy for him to stay but with no interference from the board or any other outside influence
set him a budget and let him do the business to get the players
we lost one very good manager last season lets not lose another this season eh!

and lets make him manager not coach

 

[Tooting Gull]

Apart from when it's a rhetorical question.

There is also a sequential element to a lot of the questions you could ask, if you get an answer to a) then supplementary b) or c)...but to be honest that was clearly going to be too much for HKFC given an abject failure to grasp even most the basic stuff.

Ironically, as I have said above, asking Garcia if he wants to be involved less/more is perfectly valid and could be true. But no one is putting these people on the spot, and certainly not the Argus as they should be. They seem more involved these days at sniffing at any fans' concerns, and backing the club in every way. I read one incredibly soft interview with Burke on BBC online a while back when they totally failed to pin him down on any specifics.

There are a lot, lot more questions that genuine Albion fans would like proper answers to even than the ones I posed. But some of them would depend on what answers you got first up.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I am happy for him to stay but with no interference from the board or any other outside influence
set him a budget and let him do the business to get the players
we lost one very good manager last season lets not lose another this season eh!

and lets make him manager not coach

Why are you trying to shoehorn Oscar into a role that he doesn't WANT?

 

[Seasider78]

listen two months ago I would have got rid of him in a heartbeat, but since then he has shown some considerable passion for the Albion and the team , I am happy for him to stay but with no interference from the board or any other outside influence
set him a budget and let him do the business to get the players
we lost one very good manager last season lets not lose another this season eh!

and lets make him manager not coach

That would be fine if that's how oscar wants to work but there are rumblings from a lot of quarters that it is not oscars desire to get more involved.

I would always prefer a manager to be heavily involved in scouting and recruitment but not always the way they work these days

Whatever the reasons, issues or resolutions I think we can all agree let's get on and get it sorted quickly one way or another