[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[The Clamp]

How does this calm down / end?

Starmer's strong words were never going to deter anyone. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that because of him in any way, but those involved in the rioting are not going to pay heed to anyone in authority suggesting they will feel the full force of the law etc.

I guess it was hoped that some rapid prosecutions and the handing out of stiff sentences would male people think twice, but will it be a strong enough deterrent? Thousands have been involved in this and the majority won't be brought to task. If you wear plain clothing and a mask/balaclava there's probably limited chance of being recognised and receiving that morning-after knock on the door.

In 2011, I recall feeling worried that the bad guys had figured out that with sufficient numbers on the streets, they could overwhelm police forces. This feels like it's got the potential to escalate beyond that, and now there seem to be indications that Muslim groups are also mobilising,

So, how does it end - any ideas?

If need be, military will step in.

Then the game is up for these idiots.

 

[Pevenseagull]

[

WTF? Part 1

Sorry

I didn't realise that you were being ironic.

I jumped to the conclusion that you were a weird, wrong headed arsehole.

My mistake.

Emotions run high in these circumstances.

I apologise unreservedly.

 

[portlock seagull]

How many do you need before you think it's serious?


No


Really


How many?


And what colour skin?


Give me a number and a hue.

Oh, I see what you’ve done there. You’ve badly misinterpreted. Instead of answering the question I asked, you’ve implied something else.

Again, has anyone been killed in the seemingly dozens of towns over the past few days. Because I don’t know / might have missed? Haven’t followed every riot and every story this weekend. It seems a miracle if there have been loads of stabbings, clashes and burnt out hostels/hotels. Has anyone subsequently admitted to hospitals now died etc? Including Police? Hundreds arrested. How many injured or killed as everyone’s been alluding to? I like to know facts.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Oh, I see what you’ve done there. You’ve badly misinterpreted. Instead of answering the question I asked, you’ve implied something else.

Again, has anyone been killed in the seemingly dozens of towns over the past few days. Because I don’t know / might have missed? Haven’t followed every riot and every story this weekend. It seems a miracle if there have been loads of stabbings, clashes and burnt out hostels/hotels. Has anyone subsequently admitted to hospitals now died etc? Including Police? Hundreds arrested. How many injured or killed as everyone’s been alluding to? I like to know facts.

I withdraw my apology.

Never been in an argument with an internet troll before.

Not about to start now.


Bye bye.

 

[portlock seagull]

If need be, military will step in.

Then the game is up for these idiots.

The military isn’t needed. Wrong job, wrong audience even. Police more than capable and better trained / experienced in. Besides, the bigger issue is what to do with these things after arrested. No point if CPS and MoJ has insufficient HMP capacity and/or can’t even process them. Who’d want to be in either service though? “It’s Tommy this, and Tommy that…” We treat our security services and police with total contempt and hypocrisy in the main.

 

[Eric the meek]

Oh, I see what you’ve done there. You’ve badly misinterpreted. Instead of answering the question I asked, you’ve implied something else.

Again, has anyone been killed in the seemingly dozens of towns over the past few days. Because I don’t know / might have missed? Haven’t followed every riot and every story this weekend. It seems a miracle if there have been loads of stabbings, clashes and burnt out hostels/hotels. Has anyone subsequently admitted to hospitals now died etc? Including Police? Hundreds arrested. How many injured or killed as everyone’s been alluding to? I like to know facts.

Nobody has been killed, because of the hundreds who have been arrested. The police have done their job and protected the public.

Earlier this evening, we heard that the police were in danger of riot fatigue. That rioters might overpower the police. So the more riots there are, the greater the chance of injury, or death.

Forgive me, but isn't all this obvious?

 

[portlock seagull]

I withdraw my apology.

Never been in an argument with an internet troll before.

Not about to start now.


Bye bye.

Bizarre. But each to their own.

 

[maffew]

saw some Man U kit in the "counter protest" oop north. football could be interesting flash point on the terraces in some towns in coming weeks.

Probably flown in especially, confirmation that not everyone protesting is local

 

[portlock seagull]

Nobody has been killed, because of the hundreds who have been arrested. The police have done their job and protected the public.

Earlier this evening, we heard that the police were in danger of riot fatigue. That rioters might overpower the police. So the more riots there are, the greater the chance of injury, or death.

Forgive me, but isn't all this obvious?

Thank you. It’s not obvious unless following the story rather than dipping in and out on here. Seemingly asking straight questions to a crowd of posters who are all over this story brings out the precious in some. Anyway, thank you. So no one killed so far: police or thugs or innocents. Which I guess is very lucky given the scale (how many cities and towns have had riots now, over how many days?) and first fears a few days ago.

 

[mile oak]

Social media reporting 'protest' planned Wednesday Eve Brighton and Fri evening Crawley. When will this all end? Haven't the Police got water cannons anymore? It seems to work abroad.

 

[Eric the meek]

Thank you. It’s not obvious unless following the story rather than dipping in and out on here. Seemingly asking straight questions to a crowd of posters who are all over this story brings out the precious in some. Anyway, thank you. So no one killed so far: police or thugs or innocents. Which I guess is very lucky given the scale (how many cities and towns have had riots now, over how many days?) and first fears a few days ago.

I'm still not sure what your point is.

Are you saying that the riots have not been that bad, as no-one was killed?

 

[A1X]

So, how does it end - any ideas?

Three wet evenings in a row should do the trick

 

[mile oak]

Three wet evenings in a row should do the trick

Or one long wet evening c/o water cannons as ive suggested though im not sure the Police still have these to use?

 

[portlock seagull]

I'm still not sure what your point is.

Are you saying that the riots have not been that bad, as no-one was killed?

Like some others, I think you’re misreading way more into a simple question that’s been asked and answered. Thank you.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Or one long wet evening c/o water cannons as ive suggested though im not sure the Police still have these to use?

Well, it’s an odd suggestion as the police have never had them to deploy on mainland UK.

 

[portlock seagull]

Emotions are running high, perhaps we should all just take a breath and a few mintures before posting and calm down a bit!!

#votebadfishformoderator2024

Not read all of this thread, far from. But some should, for sure. Made same point. Be careful though, mobs exist online too.

 

[Zeberdi]

How does this calm down / end?

Starmer's strong words were never going to deter anyone. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that because of him in any way, but those involved in the rioting are not going to pay heed to anyone in authority suggesting they will feel the full force of the law etc.

I guess it was hoped that some rapid prosecutions and the handing out of stiff sentences would male people think twice, but will it be a strong enough deterrent? Thousands have been involved in this and the majority won't be brought to task. If you wear plain clothing and a mask/balaclava there's probably limited chance of being recognised and receiving that morning-after knock on the door.

In 2011, I recall feeling worried that the bad guys had figured out that with sufficient numbers on the streets, they could overwhelm police forces. This feels like it's got the potential to escalate beyond that, and now there seem to be indications that Muslim groups are also mobilising,

So, how does it end - any ideas?

Firstly:

I think perhaps some of those following and commentating on it need to calm down a bit and fact check every tweet before posting it, not just for its content but who the Tweeter too is if possible. Secondly, no one is being ‘overun’ - the army will be brought in before that happens and emergency legislation introduced to allow the use of water canons (adding dye to the water canons can also tag protagonists) or, if really required, tear gas.

Secondly:

• The proportion of people engaging violently in these riots are tiny - while they are widespread, each “protest” involves no more than a few hundred rioters.
• Recognise therefore that Elon Musk, Trump, Farage’s BS about “civil war” is exactly that, BS. Recognise that they have a nefarious political agenda to not only destroy political opposition (because when there is no political opposition, people are ripe for convincing civil disobedience is the only recourse for change) but to undermine democratic governance.
• Although it’s only August, like most ‘riot seasons’, it will fizzle out when the weather cools down and it starts raining

Thirdly:

We need to stop trying to legitimise racial violence by calling it a ‘political protest’. It’s no more motivated by political ideology than football hooliganism was motivated by the love of a particular football club. It is tribalistic, gratuitous and opportunistic ‘safety in numbers’ violence and criminal damage incited by a minority of far right agents provocateurs as mass demonstrations and riots/hooliganism has been for decades (except now, social media makes that easier) - The bulk of the violence is being committed by largely socially disaffected 20-40 yr olds who have been brainwashed by right wing twunts like Farage and Robinson into thinking asylum seekers and immigrants are the cause of all their pain and frustration. The same goes for members of the Muslim community engaging in violent behaviour too - lets not glorify that either as “a noble defence” - it’s the same British disaffected youth and sad fcuk vigilantes attracted to the violence, just with a different ethnicity.

Fourthly:

I believe most of these people will be caught - the main protagonists will likely already be known for other unrelated offences - not withstanding the thousands of minutes of online and mobile phone video data available, don’t underestimate the power of surveillance and tracking technology either. Facial recognition software is now operative throughout our major cities by both the police and private businesses. If anyone is on a police database anywhere, they will be likely matched. Sophisticated Facial recognition software can still recognise you if you wear hats, hoodies, sunglasses and masks.

Even with a balaclava, facial recognition can identify people based on the unique feature surrounding their eyes. Despite the obvious issues around civil liberties and reliability of technology, the advances on technology since 2011 riots are massive. ( It won’t be long before gait recognition technology has been developed as part of live cctv monitoring too!)
Don’t underestimate the power of pre-trial deals for turning State witness either - many of those not hiding behind masks, will be more than willing to ‘help police with their enquiries’ to avoid a harsher sentence.

Finally:

I applaud Starmer for the way he has responded so unequivocally to these riots. I do confess that as Shadow Opposition leader, I thought him weak and a bit vacuous tbh but he’s really gone up in my estimation 10 fold in recent days. None of these rioters will respond to threats but the ex-DPP is not kidding when he says the law will come down hard on these thugs.

TL;DR

Keep it in perspective, trust the police to deal with it, be responsible for your own fact-checking and ”if you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs …you’ll be a Man, my son!”

​

​

 

[kevo]

Medium to long term …. how to prevent malevolent prevent lies published on Facebook and Twatter

Something like this was bound to happen when the friend of the fash allowed all the undesirables back in and made X a toxic free for all for conspiracy theorists and political nut jobs.

Regulation of social media has to happen sooner or later - in the same way other forms of media are 'regulated'.

Now is the time.

 

[Jackthelad]

I think these riots are going to be a lot bigger and more dangerous in the next decade. The potential is there for most of the cities to go up in flames. No one ever wins from riots and they leave their mark for decades.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It seems I was barred from this thread then unbarred. Apologies to Steve and son. I accept that people have been upset this last week. Me included. We all react differently. I'll unblock you. Not had any reason to quibble in the past. OK?