[Misc] Piers Morgan v Matt Hancock

[Icy Gull]

Personally, I understand that sentiment and agree with it to a point - i think supporting the people in power is important, but I also think that no-one is beyond scrutiny. If we all supported them and didn't hold them accountable, then it's a dangerous game and one the government would be happy with - they'd love to do what they want without any repurcussions.

I think there has to be a balance. You can support but pull people up when necessary, but you can also criticise but do it constructively with the aim of a greater good. It's a hard balance to strike.

True, but the repetitive sniping from the media is annoying me. I’d like to see and hear a few positives about what they are doing, not incessant negativity. It seems the only feel good news is how people are coping and how they are raising money.

As I said I have spoken to NHS staff who are very happy with the PPE supplies but we only hear about those who don’t have it. We need a bit more of the Dunkirk spirit with questions of course.

This virus is a crock of shit but let’s pull together and learn not play the blame game

I say this as an older person who totally accepts that if push comes to shove a younger person than me with a growing family should get priority if beds/ventilators are in short supply

 

[Billy the Fish]

Two very thoughtful posts (sorry, I don't have the skill of others with multiquoting).

My view is folk are swinging too far in both direction - some are criticising the government to the point of distructive whataboutery, while others are too credulous and think we need to accept every government choice without demur, like good little patriots.

Personally I can't blame the government for not locking down sooner. There were two issues: some were thinking that letting people get sick to create herd immunity might be a plan, and others feared that a sudden swift lockdown here would trigger a cockwomble revolt where the whole country behaved like the population of some towns in the midlands and north, ignoring the rules, with this snowballing into real and widespread civil unrest.

I think the government were wrong in both cases, but I really don't blame them.

The opposition do need to challenge decisions as Starmer has said, but 'noting' issue is the most they should do for now. The time for recrimination will come (and the ten years of absurd austerity will be first up for examination). But that time is not yet.

I am not keen on cheerleading, whether it be for Boris or Hancock, nor am I interested in joining a lynch mob behind the likes of Piers Morgan. Luckily I don't read or listen to working class trash media (apart from radio 5), or middle class political campaigning (Grauniad etc), so the only time I'm likely to come across the views of Dorries, Morgan, Farrage etc is on NSC. I think we need to be stoic, locally proactive with our neighbours and family, and we should follow the rules as best we can without moaning. For now.

Anyway. **** it. Now I'm proselytising like all the other silly buggers

Nailed it, on many levels.

Now is the time for some self moderation, I feel like people managed it for the first 2 weeks but are now falling back to their entrenched political positions.

 

[rippleman]

Morgan is the classic pantomime villain/marmite figure.

But regardless of whether you love him or hate, he's asking all the necessary questions at this time.

As for the Tory bashing on here, IMHO if Uncle Jeremy had won back in December we'd have rioting in the streets by now.

Not sure whether you are drunk or just a bit dumb.

You have made a ridiculous comment in an attempt to score a cheap political point. You would find it impossible to back up your flaccid assertion that had Corbyn been PM we would have rioting in the streets.

It is obviously convenient for you to overlook the lack of funding for the NHS over the past decade or longer during which time which party has been in government? Oh yeah, the Tories.

It's impossible to know for sure but I have an inkling that there would have been massive investment in the NHS under a Corbyn government. He may have made better decisions for the country, far earlier. I am certain that since the outbreak here he would have ensured that our wonderful NHS staff had the correct clothes and equipment to protect them during the crisis.

All speculation of course. But let's face it, could a Corbyn government have made a worse job of handling the crisis? I doubt it.

 

[Grombleton]

True, but the repetitive sniping from the media is annoying me. I’d like to see and hear a few positives about what they are doing, not incessant negativity. It seems the only feel good news is how people are coping and how they are raising money.

As I said I have spoken to NHS staff who are very happy with the PPE supplies but we only hear about those who don’t have it. We need a bit more of the Dunkirk spirit with questions of course

I don't think it's possible to find a perfect ideal - if the media are too questioning and not blindly supporting then they are seen as whinging and not getting behind them, but if they are supporting them then they're seen as either arse-kissing or being in the pockets of the govt.

I don't think it helps that we are living in a world that the S*n are now supporting the NHS (after years of slagging them off) and the Mail are starting to question the government (after being the poster boys of ****wittery for years) and Piers Morgan is becoming one of the few loudspeakers of public opinion.

Times are ****ed, kids.

 

[Icy Gull]

I don't think it's possible to find a perfect ideal - if the media are too questioning and not blindly supporting then they are seen as whinging and not getting behind them, but if they are supporting them then they're seen as either arse-kissing or being in the pockets of the govt.

I don't think it helps that we are living in a world that the S*n are now supporting the NHS (after years of slagging them off) and the Mail are starting to question the government (after being the poster boys of ****wittery for years) and Piers Morgan is becoming one of the few loudspeakers of public opinion.

Times are ****ed, kids.

I don’t buy/read newspapers anymore. I am only ever interested in the now defunct sports pages

Piers Morgan is a self serving **** and I don’t listen to him either

 

[A1X]

The opposition do need to challenge decisions as Starmer has said, but 'noting' issue is the most they should do for now. The time for recrimination will come (and the ten years of absurd austerity will be first up for examination). But that time is not yet.

I agree with a lot of what you say in your excellent post, but one thing I will say here is that there is absolutely a need (some would say a requirement) to attack the Government on palpable things they could be doing better, like PPE provision and the announcement yesterday(!) that they were finally going to be checking patients between hospital and care home. Those are actions which make a difference right now. Wider strategic decisions absolutely can wait, but the here and now has to be challenged if not being done right.

 

[Swansman]

"Should have learned from Italy and Spain"

Belgium who took large lockdown measures (not complete though) very early are worst off in Europe per capita. South Korea and Sweden with close to zero lockdown are in a great position (except for our care homes, sadly).

There seems to be little relation between level of lockdown measures and number of deaths. Probably not a non-factor but how different nations have shaped their care homes/overall elderly care seem to be far more relevant than level of lockdown.

In Sweden we have 0 lockdown and not one day with 100+ deaths. But from the deaths we do have (which are quite high per capita), a very large majority is happening in care homes. Belgium, that took early large measures, are a disaster zone. The similarity: we have very similar systems to care for the elderly (loads of uneducated part-time workers, very little medicial equipment and personnel, the homes themselves are designed for interaction and with few possibilites of isolating patients).

There's no proof that lockdown is superior to not going into lockdown. There is little to learn from Spain or Italy. And dont point towards China because something is very odd in how things have developed there.

 

[rogersix]

Personally I’m not sure behaving like a hysterical school girl at every turn of this situation constitutes good behaviour no matter how much tough questioning he delivers. Right now is not the time for public point scoring or finger pointing.

Let them get on with their job of dealing with this situation. For every example of left wing media government bashing - around PPE for example - there have been countless examples of Joe public saying my wife/husband/sister/cousin etc works at X hospital and they have what they need.

In any crisis there will inevitably be failures of both policy, response, preparedness and the supply chain but all in all I just can’t see his approach being very helpful in the long run.

And when the dust settles and he really goes after people I will think of him nothing other than a hypocritical idiot trying to erase the public memory of his leadership in one of the most heinous examples of press manipulation and injustice this country has ever seen. Despicable bell end as far as I’m concerned.

the government only seem to react to media criticism tho'

 

[rogersix]

He asked them to tell the public. That is a stupid request.

i thought he made a special point of not asking for a timetable?

 

[rogersix]

I am new to day time TV but after watching that interview will never watch Good Morning again. This virus is a one off thing and have no doubt government are doing there best. Like all countries things will not be perfect. Absolutely atrocious how Hancock was spoken to. I have been in business for 30 years and have never been spoken to like that. Of course if I had would have option to walk out. Ministers dont and have to sit and take that crap. The bit about footballers was a joke. Hancock made it clear he didnt bring this up but was asked in an interview about what he thinks footballers should do and he answered the question. I would say ministers are mad to go on the show but Morgan would then spout of that they were scared to come on.
I think although Morgan is the worst, the media have apart from a few exceptions been terrible. They are just all trying to make an impression and increase there profile

they are more polite on ch 4, and yet they still refused to go on 8 days running!

trickier questions?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Noooo was excellent post ...but that word....well I’m a little dim

Sorry! And no you aren't.

I must confess I had to check the spelling online

 

[dazzer6666]

"Should have learned from Italy and Spain"

Belgium who took large lockdown measures (not complete though) very early are worst off in Europe per capita. South Korea and Sweden with close to zero lockdown are in a great position (except for our care homes, sadly).

There seems to be little relation between level of lockdown measures and number of deaths. Probably not a non-factor but how different nations have shaped their care homes/overall elderly care seem to be far more relevant than level of lockdown.

In Sweden we have 0 lockdown and not one day with 100+ deaths. But from the deaths we do have (which are quite high per capita), a very large majority is happening in care homes. Belgium, that took early large measures, are a disaster zone. The similarity: we have very similar systems to care for the elderly (loads of uneducated part-time workers, very little medicial equipment and personnel, the homes themselves are designed for interaction and with few possibilites of isolating patients).

There's no proof that lockdown is superior to not going into lockdown. There is little to learn from Spain or Italy. And dont point towards China because something is very odd in how things have developed there.

So many factors may be influencing outcomes - as well as a high per capita rate of deaths in Sweden, Sweden (159th at 23 people per sq km) has one of the lower population densities globally, and Belgium one of the higher (22nd at 376 people per sq km - so about 16x the density). Given the propensity of spread of the virus in heavily populated areas (seen in the YUK - look at London data relative to the rest of the country) this has to be one of the determinants

 

[Swansman]

So many factors may be influencing outcomes - as well as a high per capita rate of deaths in Sweden, Sweden (159th at 23 people per sq km) has one of the lower population densities globally, and Belgium one of the higher (22nd at 376 people per sq km - so about 16x the density). Given the propensity of spread of the virus in heavily populated areas (seen in the YUK - look at London data relative to the rest of the country) this has to be one of the determinants

Population density should matter very little because absolutely nothing concerning the virus is happening in our forests that are larger than the UK total land mass. Both Sweden and Belgium are among the top 15 most urbanized countries in the world. Of course it is a factor but not a giant one.

 

[rogersix]

Private Eye did reported on how he managed to avoid the phone hacking scandal. In particular how his after dinner speeches back in the day contained many a hilarious story about the stuff heard on the phones of celebrities.

so how did he swerve it?

 

[portslade seagull]

Hancock just doesn't help himself. Needs to cut out the promises he can't keep for starters

 

[Mike Small]

No way can you compare one Tory government with another. I didnt vote for them but all should give this one a chance and form an opinion after a year plus. Sure you dont consider Labour same now as under Corbyn

Don't remember BJ or any of the current cabinet doing anything to support the funding the NHS receives (besides the usual election bluster) or raise any concerns with a lack of pandemic planning (it doesn't boost the beloved Tory GDP or unemployment figures for a start). Besides a few over Brexit, the conservatives tow the party line. They are careerists. The are the most successful political party in history. They don't start from zero every 5 years. Things will be quite different after Covid. I doubt they'll stick to their socialist policies of the last few weeks mind.

 

[rogersix]

As for the Tory bashing on here, IMHO if Uncle Jeremy had won back in December we'd have rioting in the streets by now.

poor

 

[Pavilionaire]

Morgan is a waking, talking tabloid of a man. Always talking over whoever he interviews, always looking for sensationalism, frequently rude.

It makes for good TV but does his technique work?

The bottom line is the Tory Party don't care enough about the people and they care too much about money - it has ever been thus, and so it doesn't matter who interviews Matt Hancock or what he says in reply. Insufficient testing and PPE, too slow with the lockdown, care homes a killing field, workers still waiting for their money.

 

[amexer]

So many factors may be influencing outcomes - as well as a high per capita rate of deaths in Sweden, Sweden (159th at 23 people per sq km) has one of the lower population densities globally, and Belgium one of the higher (22nd at 376 people per sq km - so about 16x the density). Given the propensity of spread of the virus in heavily populated areas (seen in the YUK - look at London data relative to the rest of the country) this has to be one of the determinants

Germany has in region of 600k carers. Big problem now because when they go home it is a job to get back leaving Germany a serious shortage of carers.
Talking of Poland which so many try and leave have very few Corona cases. With Belgium and Netherland the opposite maybe geographical position has some influence.

 

[dazzer6666]

Population density should matter very little because absolutely nothing concerning the virus is happening in our forests that are larger than the UK total land mass. Both Sweden and Belgium are among the top 15 most urbanized countries in the world. Of course it is a factor but not a giant one.

At the country level in simple terms it's not, but it's the fundamentally most important factor - hence social distancing and the incidence of cases in cities. I was just using it as an example of a statistic, not defining absolutely the reasons for variance