Pay on the day and ticket exchange a must for next year

[Rugrat]

One club I know of a similar size tried a ticket exchange scheme a few years ago when they were selling out every match. They found that the administration it took them was a massive overhead - ticket office staff were so busy trying to administer the changes and refunds, and field all the calls asking for exchanges, that the service to everyone else really plummeted. Unless they want to invest a large sum (£25,000+) on software to do it all automatically it's a very labour-intensive process - equivalent to 1.5 extra ticket office staff, it was estimated.

As to "pay-on-the-day" - what sort of sensible business would not sell all of their product in advance, but instead would keep some back in the hope that they will sell it at the last moment? That would also require extra staff and cash handling on matchdays, and also give the prospect of people turning up and queueing and not getting tickets - making for unhappy customers.

Which is why I was surprised/disappointed that they failed to even acknowledge a proposal to develop and deliver the whole thing at zero cost. There's a thing in business about "core competencies" and systems development/management isn't and nor should t be a competency of a football club

 

[Rugrat]

True, but surely the club wouldn't take the piss like this...


Great idea about revenue back on card - that would be fair enough IMO as long as you get all / most of the money back.

The club don't even have to do this 'through them' if not. Just an NSC style 'official' ticket exchange would be fine - leave people to sort meeting etc themselves... Although re-issuing paper tickets for a small admin fee would be the best and simplest way. De-activate the card for that one game and everyone's a winner...

NSC is probably not the place ... a simple interface into seagulls.co.uk isn't difficult. No paper tix ... all fans buying through exchange get a plastic card (same as STH) which is activated/deactivated on game by game basis. Initial cost of card (pennies) taken care of in first purchase admin fee

 

[Dirk Gently]

Which is why I was surprised/disappointed that they failed to even acknowledge a proposal to develop and deliver the whole thing at zero cost. There's a thing in business about "core competencies" and systems development/management isn't and nor should t be a competency of a football club

No arguments with that.

But inside the typical football club the prevailing attitude is "control everything" - and there's also the assumption that outsiders (including supporters) know nothing about business and are a source of income and nothing more.

Despite all that supporters have done for the Albion over the past decade+, it looks like those attitudes are back with a vengeance.

 

[Bozza]

Which is why I was surprised/disappointed that they failed to even acknowledge a proposal to develop and deliver the whole thing at zero cost. There's a thing in business about "core competencies" and systems development/management isn't and nor should t be a competency of a football club

Indeed, which is why the club don't do systems development, and why the ticketing system is the very same as that supplied to clubs such as Liverpool, Manchester City, Everton, Rangers and Leeds.

On that subject, I'm pretty sure when looking around other instances of our ticketing system in the past I found at least one that had a ticket exchange component, which would make me believe we have the capability but, for whatever reason, has not been enabled.

If I received the approach you detail, completely out of the blue, I'm not sure I'd be spending too much time responding either.

 

[Tooting Gull]

One club I know of a similar size tried a ticket exchange scheme a few years ago when they were selling out every match. They found that the administration it took them was a massive overhead - ticket office staff were so busy trying to administer the changes and refunds, and field all the calls asking for exchanges, that the service to everyone else really plummeted. Unless they want to invest a large sum (£25,000+) on software to do it all automatically it's a very labour-intensive process - equivalent to 1.5 extra ticket office staff, it was estimated.

As to "pay-on-the-day" - what sort of sensible business would not sell all of their product in advance, but instead would keep some back in the hope that they will sell it at the last moment? That would also require extra staff and cash handling on matchdays, and also give the prospect of people turning up and queueing and not getting tickets - making for unhappy customers.

Good post. An official ticket exchange would really help me, and I'd use it a lot. Without one, I have to put a bit more effort in finding people if I can't go, but I wouldn't expect the club to base such an exchange on the seller's needs only, but for their own ends: having a full ground, making extra money on commission, enabling more people to sample experience and get into supporting the Albion. If the admin isn't worth the commission AND other service suffers, they might not bother.

On your second point, where football maybe differs here from other businesses in terms of the 'get everyone paid up front', where you lose there is that it becomes very hard for new people to get in, and regenerating the support (which every club needs) becomes harder. I actually do think there are good medium and long-term reasons for having some tickets on sale for each match, even if it's 2,000.

 

[Dirk Gently]

NSC is probably not the place ... a simple interface into seagulls.co.uk isn't difficult. No paper tix ... all fans buying through exchange get a plastic card (same as STH) which is activated/deactivated on game by game basis. Initial cost of card (pennies) taken care of in first purchase admin fee

Resale/excahnge of tickets to football matches is illegal without the express consent of the rightsholders, even at face value. If the club permitted this in a blanket way then they'd lose any legal teeth to prosecute touts in future.

Also most propreitary ticketing stystems are pretty much locked down - adding an interface may not be so easy - uite feasible that the writers of Albion's system will not provie support for if external interfaces that they've not sold are attached. Outrageous, but quite likely!

 

[Dirk Gently]

On that subject, I'm pretty sure when looking around other instances of our ticketing system in the past I found at least one that had a ticket exchange component, which would make me believe we have the capability but, for whatever reason, has not been enabled.

Or it's an extra-cost option that they've decided not to purchase because they can't cost-justify it.

 

[looney]

One club I know of a similar size tried a ticket exchange scheme a few years ago when they were selling out every match. They found that the administration it took them was a massive overhead - ticket office staff were so busy trying to administer the changes and refunds, and field all the calls asking for exchanges, that the service to everyone else really plummeted. Unless they want to invest a large sum (£25,000+) on software to do it all automatically it's a very labour-intensive process - equivalent to 1.5 extra ticket office staff, it was estimated.

Maybe the other club f***ed up?

If you have 2,000 tickets returned before a deadline and you then resell half(1000) at face value. You are talking Data input for refunds for 1,000 ticket holders. Possibly a day or two of work but is that cost effective seeing you would make £15k? Seems to me you could employ someone doing it fulltime and still make a mint without software. Provisional on games continually selling out of course but thats what temp workers are for.

 

[drew]

Revenue ... both in terms of the direct cost of the ticket (less anything back to the ticket holder not attending) plus any other revenue from merchandise, catering etc.

I also think it's a bit of a travesty that fans who want to go to a game can't when there are empty seats ... kind of daft really

OK, fair comment about the lost merchandising/concession revenue. The daftness of empty seats though is to the person who bought it in the first place.

As for a ticket exchange, it would have to be automated and you only get a refund if your seat is actually sold. Also, would think it better to give the refund against the renewal of the season ticket. That way you either encourage people to go more (although if they aren't going now then that won't change), and you discourage plastics from getting a season ticket in the first place and then just using it for big games. This season is a bit unique as there may have been many who bought a season ticket who might not otherwise have done so just to ensure they got to the opening game (although presumably they went to many more). Next season could also be unique if we get promoted as there will be those that keep the season just so they get to go to the big games. Trouble is, if people aren't bothered about missing a few games or passing their ticket on to others, not sure they are going to be to bothered about it if there were a ticket exchange anyway!!!

As to "pay-on-the-day" - what sort of sensible business would not sell all of their product in advance, but instead would keep some back in the hope that they will sell it at the last moment? That would also require extra staff and cash handling on matchdays, and also give the prospect of people turning up and queueing and not getting tickets - making for unhappy customers.

Exactly. Seems there are still some people in the 21st century who think they should just decide at 2.30 that they want to take in match and have the right just to turn up and walk in.

 

[Bozza]

Maybe the other club f***ed up?

If you have 2,000 tickets returned before a deadline and you then resell half(1000) at face value. You are talking Data input for refunds for 1,000 ticket holders. Possibly a day or two of work but is that cost effective seeing you would make £15k? Seems to me you could employ someone doing it fulltime and still make a mint without software. Provisional on games continually selling out of course but thats what temp workers are for.

It would be all online and entirely automated. Human intervention would only be required for exceptions.

 

[Dirk Gently]

Maybe the other club f***ed up?

If you have 2,000 tickets returned before a deadline and you then resell half(1000) at face value. You are talking Data input for refunds for 1,000 ticket holders. Possibly a day or two of work but is that cost effective seeing you would make £15k? Seems to me you could employ someone doing it fulltime and still make a mint without software. Provisional on games continually selling out of course but thats what temp workers are for.

But the figures are nowhere near 2000 tickets per game. Maybe a thousand at most, but I actually think much lower. The vast majority of unused tickets are generally passed on privately. The club will probably have infomrmation that supporters don't, like the results of the Premier League National Fans' survey 2006/07

Usage of season tickets when not attending matches
This was a new question for the 2006/07 survey and was targeted specifically at those season ticket holders who didn’t attend all home games.
As expected, the vast majority merely pass their tickets on to friends and family (88%).
However, 9% do nothing with their unused season ticket and a mere 3% pass their ticket back to the club for re-sale.
Clearly, given the pressure on ticket availability at certain clubs, having the ability to ‘re-cycle’ unused season tickets back into the system has likely financial benefits for both the club and the
season ticket holder concerned.

A lot of investment/admin (including answering calls from people who want tickets) for not much benefit.

 

[looney]

It would be all online and entirely automated. Human intervention would only be required for exceptions.

If so then its a question of cost of software and training, seems to me that IF we go up then it would be cost effective as the anticipated excess demand would make it a safe bet. If as claimed the Software would cost £25k then the cost would be covered over 2 games, come to think of it it would probably be cost effective if we dont go up assuming palace dont go down.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Given that next season there should be an additional 5,000 or so tickets to sell I am not surprised that re-selling tickets they have already sold is a priority for the club. We have yet to be in the Amex for a full season and it is set for a big change in the summer, there is still a lot of work to be done in bedding down the operations side of managing the stadium.

It may seem like a decade ago but this time last year we were still playing to 7,000 people at municipal running track, I know it's not what people want to hear but I'd imagine that a ticket exchange is quite likely to be at the bottom of any pending jobs pile they have at the Amex.

Only when the stadium is complete and all systems are in place and the team has cemented it's status as championship side (at worst) will I expect the club to give the exchange a higher priority. These things may seem simple to those of us sitting behind a keyboard but in practice they rarely turn out to be so. Any exchange system must come in at the right time (i'd argue that this is not it) and it must be pretty robust and as error proof as possible, otherwise this forum could be full of posts from people who have had their smart card deactivated by mistake.

If we are in the championship next season and get the additional seats installed I do not see too many problems for those wishing to get match by match tickets, so the need for an exchange should be moot.

 

[looney]

But the figures are nowhere near 2000 tickets per game. Maybe a thousand at most, but I actually think much lower. The vast majority of unused tickets are generally passed on privately. The club will probably have infomrmation that supporters don't, like the results of the Premier League National Fans' survey 2006/07



A lot of investment/admin (including answering calls from people who want tickets) for not much benefit.

Not if automated and becomes a habit/focal point to return tickets. the calls for tickets would be tempered by advertising that any returned would be shown available online.

 

[kingcole]

I have been told by the club that a ticket exchange will be working for next season. .

A) the ticket exchange will only become active once the game is an official sell out.
B) the software is already there, it has been tested. It will all be done on the website in the same section that we top up money to our card.
C) when you 'tick the box' to say you can't go, assuming it has sold out, your seat will be available for others to buy. You will only get a credit if someone buys your seat. The most you will get is the pro rata price you have have paid. ie, if a kid ticket and you only spent £5 on it, you will get a £5 credit to your ecash top up card. If the club sell this seat to an adult at £24 + £2 booking fee, this is where they make their money.

As for POTG. It is true it is in the planning that this cannot happen, but it could of course be changed. I can't see the club wanting to rock the boat though whilst we are getting permission for the extra seats.

I was in the club shop just before the Barnsley game and a couple of Barnsley fans were in there, not realising it was all ticket and were promptly sold seats 3 mins before.

 

[Superphil]

On that subject, I'm pretty sure when looking around other instances of our ticketing system in the past I found at least one that had a ticket exchange component, which would make me believe we have the capability but, for whatever reason, has not been enabled..

I have been told by the club that a ticket exchange will be working for next season. .

A) the ticket exchange will only become active once the game is an official sell out.
B) the software is already there, it has been tested. It will all be done on the website in the same section that we top up money to our card.
.

"Ticket Exchange" system is already in use on 1901 seats. If I want to let someone else have my seat for a game I complete a very short form, enter the recipients email address and he or she gets emailed a printable ticket, like an online check-in form you get with airlines. So far though there is no facility for money to change hands so it would be up to me to get any money off a recipient. I guess this is the software system that will be used, but with a payment option added.

 

[Bozza]

"Ticket Exchange" system is already in use on 1901 seats. If I want to let someone else have my seat for a game I complete a very short form, enter the recipients email address and he or she gets emailed a printable ticket, like an online check-in form you get with airlines. So far though there is no facility for money to change hands so it would be up to me to get any money off a recipient. I guess this is the software system that will be used, but with a payment option added.

This is available for all seats in the ground, only non-1901ers have to pick up the phone. A paper ticket is issued and either mailed to the buyer or made available for collection at the Amex. Again, the financial transaction is handled between the individuals concerned and does not involve the club themselves.

 

[keaton]

Exactly. Seems there are still some people in the 21st century who think they should just decide at 2.30 that they want to take in match and have the right just to turn up and walk in.

Think how bad transport would be with more randoms turning up just to see if they could get a ticket.

And these people can go to a game, you can turn up to a Whitehawk or Lewes match after kick-off and walk straight in (after paying obviously).
If you really want to watch the Albion sort it out in advance if you just want to watch some football on a Saturday afternoon as a last minute plan, there's lots of local clubs

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Pay on the day/gate wont work, most games "sell out" weeks before and it would only work if they havent, maybe for certain cup games but thats all.

Didnt someone on here post that the works on the ticket system last month was to make an Exchange ? I would have thought the club would be making one - have it and you will have a lot less empty seats, especially with the expansion.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The club also needs to look at how the comps are handed out or in most cases NOT handed out. Any unused comps should be placed on general sale to put bums on seats.