[Albion] Pascal Groß the raumdeuter - officially leaves for Dortmund :(

[Han Solo]

I don’t agree, it works well in American sport, and is recognition of achievements at a club, it is also a mark of respect and ensures someone’s contribution is never forgotten.

I appreciate there is an argument about where do you stop and what constitutes a legend, but that’s another debate. Clearly when starting players were numbered 1-11 it was never an option.

Bellingham IS tinpot, because other than begin his career and show incredible promise, he didn’t achieve anything particularly notable for Birmingham.
In fact, it is non-comparable to what Gross has achieved for Brighton IMO.

Well, if Pascal has his shirt retired, then you kind of need to retire Solly March #7 and Lewis Dunk #5, right? In two or three decades there might be ten out of the common numbers 1-25 retired... and for all we know the club could exist for 500 more years.

 

[jcdenton08]

Well, if Pascal has his shirt retired, then you kind of need to retire Solly March #7 and Lewis Dunk #5, right? In two or three decades there might be ten out of the common numbers 1-25 retired... and for all we know the club could exist for 500 more years.

I think there are exceptions to every rule, I’d be fine with a set period of “respect” - say the length of time he spent here. We did similar with Zamora for a while and eventually relaxed it.

Would be a nice gesture I think for a couple of seasons.

 

[Han Solo]

I think there are exceptions to every rule, I’d be fine with a set period of “respect” - say the length of time he spent here. We did similar with Zamora for a while and eventually relaxed it.

Would be a nice gesture I think for a couple of seasons.

Sure, thats a different thing. Wouldn't call that "retiring" the shirt though.

But with how it usually works in America, our new left back Z00rak X-2'¨'¨'00 is going to have to wear number 389 in year 2298. And he's a f***ing left back! Imagine what the striker would wear?? (probably 9...).

 

[timbha]

I think there are exceptions to every rule, I’d be fine with a set period of “respect” - say the length of time he spent here. We did similar with Zamora for a while and eventually relaxed it.

Would be a nice gesture I think for a couple of seasons.

Not sure what retiring a shirt number achieves. The player’s name no longer appears on the shirt. That should be enough.

Over the (more recent) years we’ve had “legends” Hart, Mayo, Zamora, Murray, Bruno (!) and Gross that my poor memory can recall. Other than Zamora I struggle to recall their shirt number.

 

[jcdenton08]

Sure, thats a different thing. Wouldn't call that "retiring" the shirt though.

But with how it usually works in America, our new left back Z00rak X-2'¨'¨'00 is going to have to wear number 389 in year 2298. And he's a f***ing left back! Imagine what the striker would wear?? (probably 9...).

Yeah I take your point, I think a mark of respect would be good though so perhaps don’t use his number for a bit.

 

[jcdenton08]

Not sure what retiring a shirt number achieves. The player’s name no longer appears on the shirt. That should be enough.

Over the (more recent) years we’ve had “legends” Hart, Mayo, Zamora, Murray, Bruno (!) and Gross that my poor memory can recall. Other than Zamora I struggle to recall their shirt number.

Just a nice thing to do I guess. Hart was initially 12, then number 9, think he changed again when he played right back. Mayo was 3 for most of his career. Bruno was as 2. Murray was 17.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

for all we know the club could exist for 500 more years.

I doubt humans will exist in 500 years the way we are going, and good bloody riddance.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Well, if Pascal has his shirt retired, then you kind of need to retire Solly March #7 and Lewis Dunk #5, right? In two or three decades there might be ten out of the common numbers 1-25 retired... and for all we know the club could exist for 500 more years.

Sure, and Dunk I get, but for Solly great (and one of my favourite players), is longevity enough? That is a different discussion in terms of what constitutes legend status….

But in 500 years, supporters will know who Pascal Gross is and his impact, rather than being another name who fades into the annals of time.
First PL goal
Goal that ensured survival
Current all time leading PL scorer
Leading assists stats…..

And whilst all these records will fall, adding all of those facts together, makes a strong case for legendary status. (IMO)

Whether 10 players will have that sort of cumulative effort in the next 3 decades is unlikely…… but I do accept that’s the counter argument

 

[DJ NOBO]

When it comes to Albion legends there are levels.
In the high echelons you’ve got a small collection of fantastic servants to this club - gross, Bruno, Murray included.

And then you have Lewis Dunk, well ahead of the pack. But do not retire his number , hold it in reverence like United’s number 7.

 

[Bold Seagull]

A statue will do.

Or name a pie after him…I’d like a Gross Pie please?

Or maybe name a traffic junction… The Gross Turn

 

[Farehamseagull]

No retiring shirt numbers is just wrong. I really dislike it. I disagreed with it when Milan did it with Maldini and he did far more for them than Pascal did for us.

It’s making the player bigger than the club. Football is a team sport which does get forgotten about in modern football sometimes as content has to become more about individual superstars. Pascal couldn’t have done what he did over the years without Hughton, Potter, De Zerbi, Dunk, March, Murray, Caicedo etc. Football clubs are a collective of owner, directors coaches, players and supporters - not one individual.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

When it comes to Albion legends there are levels.
In the high echelons you’ve got a small collection of fantastic servants to this club - gross, Bruno, Murray included.

And then you have Lewis Dunk, well ahead of the pack. But do not retire his number , hold it in reverence like United’s number 7.

That works for 1-11, but as soon as we extended shirt numbers, the gate was opened.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

No retiring shirt numbers is just wrong. I really dislike it. I disagreed with it when Milan did it with Maldini and he did far more for them than Pascal did for us.

It’s making the player bigger than the club. Football is a team sport which does get forgotten about in modern football sometimes as content has to become more about individual superstars. Pascal couldn’t have done what he did over the years without Hughton, Potter, De Zerbi, Dunk, March, Murray, Caicedo etc. Football clubs are a collective of owner, directors coaches, players and supporters - not one individual.

But it happens in other sports.
Fair enough though, we disagree

PS - hadn’t realised re Maldini, seems fair, but Brighton are not Milan so not comparable

 

[Gwylan]

But in 500 years, supporters will know who Pascal Gross is and his impact, rather than being another name who fades into the annals of time.

Would they though. Look at the number of threads we've had about stand names/statues/legendary status and how few times Charlie Webb is mentioned - ask the average fan going to the Amex and I bet more than half wouldn't have heard of him. And this was the guy who scored the goal that won us our only trophy, who was at the club for nearly 40 years and was known as Mr Albion.

It doesn't take long for people to forget.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Would they though. Look at the number of threads we've had about stand names/statues/legendary status and how few times Charlie Webb is mentioned - ask the average fan going to the Amex and I bet more than half wouldn't have heard of him. And this was the guy who scored the goal that won us our only trophy, who was at the club for nearly 40 years and was known as Mr Albion.

It doesn't take long for people to forget.

Yes, agree entirely, but I would argue, if the shirt is no longer about, a ‘keen’ supporter would look up the relevance…..

You’ve just made a dozen fans google Charlie Webb

 

[Slum_Wolf]

I count 6, but yes exactly.

6 keepers, two Saudi sport washers and some Portuguese bloke twice...

 

[keaton]

On the club's YouTube there is a 30 minute long video of ever Gross assist and 20 minutes of every Gross goal. Where's the 180 minutes of every Gross turn?

 

[pigmanovich]

On the club's YouTube there is a 30 minute long video of ever Gross assist and 20 minutes of every Gross goal. Where's the 180 minutes of every Gross turn?

To be watched at risk of extreme dizziness

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I actually think retiring Groß's shirt number would work, because 13 isn't typically a popular number. Isn't it generally a reserve goalkeeper or don't a lot of clubs just not have one because of the 'superstitious' or 'bad luck' thing?

 

[Han Solo]

Sure, and Dunk I get, but for Solly great (and one of my favourite players), is longevity enough? That is a different discussion in terms of what constitutes legend status….

But in 500 years, supporters will know who Pascal Gross is and his impact, rather than being another name who fades into the annals of time.
First PL goal
Goal that ensured survival
Current all time leading PL scorer
Leading assists stats…..

And whilst all these records will fall, adding all of those facts together, makes a strong case for legendary status. (IMO)

Whether 10 players will have that sort of cumulative effort in the next 3 decades is unlikely…… but I do accept that’s the counter argument

They will know about Pascal Gross maybe as much as the average Albion fan knows about the Charity Shield winning team... tbf no clue how much or little that is

Imho Sollys longevity and contributions are as remarkable as Gross. Maybe would have agreed with you if Pascal finished his career with Brighton, but as it stands he's leaving to play in a bigger and better club... that RARELY results in a shirt number retired and feck knows if it should now either... its 7 years, not 15 or 20.

Agree he is legendary. Disagree with retiring the shirt - should be saved for REALLY special cases like Paolo Maldini or Lewis Dunk.