Parking fine is it worth appealing ?

[LadySeagull]

Yawn...no again.

Measuring of bays is usually pointless as they can still be considered 'substantially compliant', same with disatance of signs.

You really don't get it, but never mind, you and HerrTubThumper can of course just pay up if ever you get a PCN, it's your choice.

And Programme_Seller can be the one person on this forum paying a fake PCN 'because it looks official and they have some signs up, must be legit if the Supermarket let them in...'

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Go for it, my old man looked right into parking laws, measuring area of bays, distance of sign posts etc. He gets quite a few parking tickets and baffles them with science on appeal. If you can be arsed, there will be a technicality somewhere that will assist your case.

Your "old man" is the very type of weasel I despise the most.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yawn...no again.

Measuring of bays is usually pointless as they can still be considered 'substantially compliant', same with disatance of signs.

You really don't get it, but never mind, you and HerrTubThumper can of course just pay up if ever you get a PCN, it's your choice.

And Programme_Seller can be the one person on this forum paying a fake PCN 'because it looks official and they have some signs up, must be legit if the Supermarket let them in...'

You asked what motivates [MENTION=6891]chimneys[/MENTION] and myself, can I ask you the same? It's pretty clear you spend a lot of your time, energy and effort on this subject and you seem very knowledgable. What is the underlying reason? Do you put similar effort into any other campaigns/areas or is this your chosen crusade?

 

[Garage_Doors]

Ah, the old can I park on your driveway argument.

And still needs answering, where do I stand legally?

The difference between a Supermarket (or similar) car park and someone's driveway is that the Supermarket is inviting the public to come and park there so they can use the shops, whereas the owner of a driveway isn't. Why on earth you think that parking slightly over a white line in a supermarket car park (for example) justifies a £60 charge, only you know.

Bad parking justify the fine if someone has parked over white lines as it stops other parking there, its selfish s should be penalised.
If it states max 2 hours then parker should respect this, if you go over you get fined, your view, or at least LS is f*** em, I know it their land, but the law is on my side so i can park on there land for as long as i like because they cant do anything about it, that is clearly wrong.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Programme_Seller can be the one person on this forum paying a fake PCN 'because it looks official and they have some signs up, must be legit if the Supermarket let them in...'

Nothing to do with whether they are fake PCN, or legally enforceable, this is the point you don't get, you seem one dimensional with the "the law is on my side so i don't have to pay".
Its about responsibility, if I have not conformed to their request as to the use of their land then i expect to pay.
Its a moral responsibility, do you not get this?

 

[Manx Shearwater]

And still needs answering, where do I stand legally?

Its trespass, and if they are obstructing your access then you can ask the council to move it.

Bad parking justify the fine if someone has parked over white lines as it stops other parking there, its selfish s should be penalised.
If it states max 2 hours then parker should respect this, if you go over you get fined, your view, or at least LS is f*** em, I know it their land, but the law is on my side so i can park on there land for as long as i like because they cant do anything about it, that is clearly wrong.

Strange that you think anyone other than a court can fine you. If that were the case then there would potentially be anarchy, it'd be interesting if everyone simply went around fining everyone else. At least council penalties are issued under specific legislation.

If, by parking over your white line, you prevented someone else from parking then if the losses can be demonstrated then yes, you might well be legally liable for these. However most car parks where I see such tickets being issued are massive great things with loads of empty spaces, so they very rarely do result in a loss to the landowner. Still, if you want to pay £60 for this, then that's your prerogative. Do you reply to Nigerian email scammers as well?

 

[nomoremithras4me]

Your "old man" is the very type of weasel I despise the most.

What the f*** are you on your soap box about then? it's a f***ing parking ticket ffs.

 

[nomoremithras4me]

Another one of your followers LadySeagull?! You must be so proud!!

Your going to have to enlighten me because I haven't a f***ing clue what your on about either. Is there something in the air today ffs?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

In the grand scheme of things it's not important but it is an example of what is wrong with society at the moment ie people shirking their responsibility and only bothering to think of themselves. Councils are struggling to provide services due to budget cuts and you chancers are not only denying them important revenue by refusing to pay legitimately issued tickets you're also costing them money due to challenging on technicalities or the belief the council is so strapped they cannot afford a defence.

And before you have another guess my job has absolutely no connection to parking whatsoever.

Putting aside your strange idea that the council should have their fines paid regardless of the ticket being issued correctly or not, you make the incorrect assumption that the council are losing important revenue by people challenging them. That's not true, they use income from parking to fund it and they aren't allowed to use that income for very much else than parking and transport. They aren't allowed to subsidise services they should fund from general income from parking income and fines. My experience of B&H council tickets is that the signage is inadequate, the council bullying and many tickets are incorrectly issued. If this wasn't the case then I'd agree that challenging them is wrong but as it stands now they use a private contractor who's employees don't know the rules, who have targets to issue tickets, that the council will bully you to try and get you to pay and who waste money by sending TWO employees to adjudication. Until this level of incompetence is improved I'm more than happy to see people challenge ANY ticket. When the council put their own house in order then my opinion may change.

@Programme_Seller - if you would seriously pay an invoice from a PPC when they LEGALLY can't invoice you then you're f***ing stupid !!!!!

 

[Garage_Doors]

Its trespass, and if they are obstructing your access then you can ask the council to move it.

Thank you, that answers that one.

If, by parking over your white line, you prevented someone else from parking then if the losses can be demonstrated then yes, you might well be legally liable for these.

Nothing to do with losses its respect for other road users / parkers.

Do you reply to Nigerian email scammers as well?

No as they have no legal or morale right to my cash.
You are either, missing the point, or i would suggest you are conveniently ignoring the moral aspect of this.
Do you not believe that land owner has any say as to how he want his car park used?
If he feels it right to ensure max occupancy for the shops he is catering for or wishes the max stay is 2 hours that's his prerogative.
You only seem to be dealing with the legal aspect rather than the community responsibility.
As i keep saying it the land owners land your parking on, so it not too much to ask that you abide by their conditions.

 

[Garage_Doors]

What the f*** are you on your soap box about then? it's a f***ing parking ticket ffs.

Its about taking responsibility for your actions, he parked illegally but rather that stand up like a man and pay up, he weadles his way finding loopholes so he don't have to pay his dues.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

No as they have no legal or morale right to my cash.
You are either, missing the point, or i would suggest you are conveniently ignoring the moral aspect of this.
Do you not believe that land owner has any say as to how he want his car park used?
If he feels it right to ensure max occupancy for the shops he is catering for or wishes the max stay is 2 hours that's his prerogative.
You only seem to be dealing with the legal aspect rather than the community responsibility.
As i keep saying it the land owners land your parking on, so it not too much to ask that you abide by their conditions.

Nor does a PPC - only the LANDOWNER can claim damages and even then they can only claim damages for any losses.

 

[Garage_Doors]

@Programme_Seller - if you would seriously pay an invoice from a PPC when they LEGALLY can't invoice you then you're f***ing stupid !!!!!

Every anti parking ticket post only seems to deal with the legality of the issue, rather than a moral aspect.
Do you not believe that land owner has any say as to how he want his car park used?
If he feels it right to ensure max occupancy for the shops he is catering for or wishes the max stay is 2 hours that's his prerogative.
As i keep saying it the land owners land your parking on, so it not too much to ask that you abide by their conditions.
You seemed to be of the opinion that "the law is on my side so i can park on the're land however and for how long i like".

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your going to have to enlighten me because I haven't a f***ing clue what your on about either. Is there something in the air today ffs?

You don't understand me. You don't understand [MENTION=6891]chimneys[/MENTION]. It's funny how others, some with opposing views, understand us. Do you think it might be you being a bit dim as opposed to us not being clear?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Every anti parking ticket post only seems to deal with the legality of the issue, rather than a moral aspect.
Do you not believe that land owner has any say as to how he want his car park used?
If he feels it right to ensure max occupancy for the shops he is catering for or wishes the max stay is 2 hours that's his prerogative.
As i keep saying it the land owners land your parking on, so it not too much to ask that you abide by their conditions.
You seemed to be of the opinion that "the law is on my side so i can park on the're land however and for how long i like".

It is indeed the landowners right to set the T&Cs for parking BUT only within the law. What if they said only white people could park and they had to have a red car ? It would be illegal for them to set these conditions in exactly the same way it is illegal to charge a penalty. Are you seriously suggesting that landowners are above the law ?

For the record, I don't condone people breaking the T&Cs BUT if a car park is say £1 an hour and you go two hours over what you've paid for then you owe the landowner ( NOT the PPC ) £2 - not anything from £60 to £150 which constitutes a penalty and thus is illegal.

 

[LadySeagull]

No as they have no legal or moral right to my cash.

Nor does a third party agent which doesn't own the land, doesn't maintain or repair the car park, doesn't do anything useful whatsoever except milk gullible people like yourself. Honestly, if you paid a fake PCN you would be absolutely stupid, especially as you are forum-savvy. I can understand foreign visitors and elderly people falling for the protection racket but surely not a forum contributor who has had the scam pointed out clearly?

This is NOT the landowner who is demending money, it's a third party using a practice akin to a protection racket. How much clearer can it be? The scam has been outed by a solicitor on Watchdog, and by barristers on online blogs, what more do you need to know?

You are either, missing the point, or i would suggest you are conveniently ignoring the moral aspect of this.
Do you not believe that land owner has any say as to how he want his car park used?

Yep, on the contrary, we all believe that they DO, Westdene Seagull and ManxShearwater included. No-one is suggesting parking anywhere for any old time, regardless of the wishes of the landowner/retail occupier. If they suffered a loss then the landowner/occupier could of course take a rogue parker to Small Claims. But a third party 'car park squatter' issuing fake PCNs can't, despite their signs. These are profit-marking companies, leeching off the customers of real businesses.

Do you really think a visit to Hove Tesco can legitimately result in some sort of fine for overstaying just because you also used Costa Coffee in the store and maybe popped to George Street (which is allowed, it's in the planning permission for that car park)? What next, a littering fine for dropping your receipt? Are you that easily parted with your money?!

If he feels it right to ensure max occupancy for the shops he is catering for or wishes the max stay is 2 hours that's his prerogative.
You only seem to be dealing with the legal aspect rather than the community responsibility.
As i keep saying it the land owners land your parking on, so it not too much to ask that you abide by their conditions.

Yep it's the landowner's land. Not the PPC's land. They are agents, they put up signs and they only make their money from the gullible, indeed they make a hefty profit. How exactly does that help the landowner?

 

[LadySeagull]

You asked what motivates [MENTION=6891]chimneys[/MENTION] and myself, can I ask you the same? It's pretty clear you spend a lot of your time, energy and effort on this subject and you seem very knowledgable. What is the underlying reason? Do you put similar effort into any other campaigns/areas or is this your chosen crusade?

I chose to help people with parking tickets after seeing some horror stories, day after day, on MSE and pepipoo. There have been far too many criminal clampings - luckily that's about to be banned - and some illegal threats following private companies issuing of a fake PCN for a made-up reason for an extortionate amount, and also Council tickets which have been an injustice to disabled people or others who simply cannot afford to be ripped off by their own Local Authority. People get really upset by these tickets and posters like us can easily help them.

I don't have to explain myself to you, I simply find the subject interesting and rewarding, rather like people who volunteer to advise people about debt (which I have also done before). I like to help people with their money worries, I have relevant experience and in the case of parking tickets, a fair knowledge to pass on to others. Why not?

This thread is only about one little parking ticket - I do hope the OP hasn't keeled over and died of boredom reading the vociferous rantings of the minority, like you, who seem to think it's sacrilege to dare to appeal even though the system is in place for that option.

 

[nomoremithras4me]

You don't understand me. You don't understand [MENTION=6891]chimneys[/MENTION]. It's funny how others, some with opposing views, understand us. Do you think it might be you being a bit dim as opposed to us not being clear?

I understand you loud and clear regarding you opinion on the thread topic. What I don't understand is how you can make it personal with your f***ing 'weasel' comment and now using the term 'dim'. Who do you think you f***ing are?

 

[Manx Shearwater]

No as they have no legal or morale right to my cash.
You are either, missing the point, or i would suggest you are conveniently ignoring the moral aspect of this.
Do you not believe that land owner has any say as to how he want his car park used?
If he feels it right to ensure max occupancy for the shops he is catering for or wishes the max stay is 2 hours that's his prerogative.
You only seem to be dealing with the legal aspect rather than the community responsibility.
As i keep saying it the land owners land your parking on, so it not too much to ask that you abide by their conditions.

I'm not missing anything.

I have no problem with a landowner being recompensed for misuse of his land, and I would never condone anyone parking improperly on private land. However, is this what happens in the current situations? No.

Instead of the landowner being recompensed, a private parking company issue a ticket for some amount of money way out of proportion to the losses/damages incurred by the landowner. The landowner gets none of this money. The private parking company pocket it themselves. They make BIG BUCKS out of this, the owner of Excel and VCS pays himself about £350k a year and owns a yacht. What happens if someone refuses to pay up? The parking company sends letters from debt collectors which blatantly lie about the true legal position of the recipient of the ticket (often, this is not even the person who was driving at the time), in an attempt to scare and intimidate them into paying up.

As I said, I would never condone improper parking on private land, but if you want to bring morals into this then you need to know that it works both ways, you talk about the morals of the drivers that take the p*ss, but you also need to consider the morals of these rich parking companies who do nothing to control parking, but simply leech off the back of landowers, and lie and intimidate drivers in order to turn a massive profit. And remember, they target EVERYONE who accidentally overstays by 10 mins a free car park with loads of spaces available, disabled people who forget to display their blue badges, they don't care. I would agree with you if it was just about the p*ss takers, but they form a small minority in the great scheme of private parking company profits.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

I understand you loud and clear regarding you opinion on the thread topic. What I don't understand is how you can make it personal with your f***ing 'weasel' comment and now using the term 'dim'. Who do you think you f***ing are?

He sits in the 1901. Offer to meet up.