O/T Question for people who believe in God

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I'm a little concerned by Heaven. Or more specifically how to get there and who gets in.

I had this discussion with two friends of mine, one who is a devout Christian and the other who is Muslim. I explained that I was agnostic. So although I don't believe in God I don't disbelieve in him. As I understood Christianity as I was taught it, the people who are good Christians and act in accordance to the teachings of Christ would go to heaven.

Now, I said, as an agnostic I don't neccesarily believe in Christ's teachings. But, a lot of them seem like good common sense rules to live by. In fact I think some of them are necessary for the succesful and healthy flourishing of society. But you don't have to believe in God to see the worth in sentiments such as 'thou shalt not kill'. So, I asked my Christian friend, if, for example, i went through life denying the existence of Christ and God, but through working out my own philosophy on life-which just happened to consist of the same principles as Christianity- I lived a life that would otherwise be a saintly example of Christianity, would I go to heaven? He said no, I had to believe in God. But what, I asked, if i say I believe in God, but really I don't. Again he said that I wouldn't go to Heaven as God would know my heart. He basically said that I had to BELIEVE. Without belief in God then you cannot go to Heaven. But, I said, that's not fair! That's like saying that only those people who believe that Gone With The Wind is the greatest movie ever can go to Heaven. Or those that prefer to read books instead of play sports. You can't make someone change like that. It's just the way they are. My friend was unmoved.
On the plus side, my Muslim friend said that I would be able to go to heaven in Islam.

I think my friends strand of Christianity was not such a popular one. So can any of the Christians on this site clear the question up for me?
If I live a life that would otherwise be seen as an exemplary life of a saint, but go through life unable to accept the existence of God. Will I go to heaven?

 

[MattBackHome]

I'm a little concerned by Heaven. Or more specifically how to get there and who gets in.

I had this discussion with two friends of mine, one who is a devout Christian and the other who is Muslim. I explained that I was agnostic. So although I don't believe in God I don't disbelieve in him. As I understood Christianity as I was taught it, the people who are good Christians and act in accordance to the teachings of Christ would go to heaven.

Now, I said, as an agnostic I don't neccesarily believe in Christ's teachings. But, a lot of them seem like good common sense rules to live by. In fact I think some of them are necessary for the succesful and healthy flourishing of society. But you don't have to believe in God to see the worth in sentiments such as 'thou shalt not kill'. So, I asked my Christian friend, if, for example, i went through life denying the existence of Christ and God, but through working out my own philosophy on life-which just happened to consist of the same principles as Christianity- I lived a life that would otherwise be a saintly example of Christianity, would I go to heaven? He said no, I had to believe in God. But what, I asked, if i say I believe in God, but really I don't. Again he said that I wouldn't go to Heaven as God would know my heart. He basically said that I had to BELIEVE. Without belief in God then you cannot go to Heaven. But, I said, that's not fair! That's like saying that only those people who believe that Gone With The Wind is the greatest movie ever can go to Heaven. Or those that prefer to read books instead of play sports. You can't make someone change like that. It's just the way they are. My friend was unmoved.
On the plus side, my Muslim friend said that I would be able to go to heaven in Islam.

I think my friends strand of Christianity was not such a popular one. So can any of the Christians on this site clear the question up for me?
If I live a life that would otherwise be seen as an exemplary life of a saint, but go through life unable to accept the existence of God. Will I go to heaven?

You're not going anywhere, Sonny-Jim.

 

[DJ Leon]

...has withstood scholarly research by some of the world's finest minds. And continues to do so.

Brilliant. The Bible is FACT now is it. Well, that's news to me and every other religion in the world. If only we could prove that Jesus walked on water, layed on healing hands and did numerous other varieties of amusing magic tricks - wouldn't that be great? Well, sorry, it can't be proved and you don't have to be AJP Taylor to realise that the Bible is something that you have to believe in, have faith in.

 

[DJ Leon]

Yeah, that's right, I switch my mind off. I gain this faith that you speak of and then don't have to work out what I actually believe, how what I believe should affect the way I live my life, and what it means to my view of the world around me.

Good grief...

'Good grief' - great to see a bit of good ol' Christian sanctimony creeping in there.

You (and everyone else) can believe in what you want. It's your right to do so - just don't tell me that the religious ones are the ones who use their logic and reason - because you don't - you are believers.

I'm not saying that because you have faith you don't think about anything. I'm just saying that you don't think about the existence of God. On this issue you have already chosen your path.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

I'm a little concerned by Heaven. Or more specifically how to get there and who gets in.

I had this discussion with two friends of mine, one who is a devout Christian and the other who is Muslim. I explained that I was agnostic. So although I don't believe in God I don't disbelieve in him. As I understood Christianity as I was taught it, the people who are good Christians and act in accordance to the teachings of Christ would go to heaven.

Now, I said, as an agnostic I don't neccesarily believe in Christ's teachings. But, a lot of them seem like good common sense rules to live by. In fact I think some of them are necessary for the succesful and healthy flourishing of society. But you don't have to believe in God to see the worth in sentiments such as 'thou shalt not kill'. So, I asked my Christian friend, if, for example, i went through life denying the existence of Christ and God, but through working out my own philosophy on life-which just happened to consist of the same principles as Christianity- I lived a life that would otherwise be a saintly example of Christianity, would I go to heaven? He said no, I had to believe in God. But what, I asked, if i say I believe in God, but really I don't. Again he said that I wouldn't go to Heaven as God would know my heart. He basically said that I had to BELIEVE. Without belief in God then you cannot go to Heaven. But, I said, that's not fair! That's like saying that only those people who believe that Gone With The Wind is the greatest movie ever can go to Heaven. Or those that prefer to read books instead of play sports. You can't make someone change like that. It's just the way they are. My friend was unmoved.
On the plus side, my Muslim friend said that I would be able to go to heaven in Islam.

I think my friends strand of Christianity was not such a popular one. So can any of the Christians on this site clear the question up for me?
If I live a life that would otherwise be seen as an exemplary life of a saint, but go through life unable to accept the existence of God. Will I go to heaven?

I've had huge issues with this too, GNLF, coming from a Christian family but not being a Christian myself. As I understand it, it's not just belief in God and Jesus that matters, but you have to have a RELATIONSHIP with him / them. You have to love them, not just believe in them.

Ultimately, no one knows how you get into this 'heaven'. Bummer really

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

You're not going anywhere, Sonny-Jim.

Oh. Bugger.

Still, nor are you.

 

[NMH]

I'm a little concerned by Heaven. Or more specifically how to get there and who gets in.
.............

I think my friends strand of Christianity was not such a popular one. So can any of the Christians on this site clear the question up for me?
If I live a life that would otherwise be seen as an exemplary life of a saint, but go through life unable to accept the existence of God. Will I go to heaven?

If good sense prevails, you are surely better than the 'believer' if you have done good deeds and lived righteously WITHOUT any fear and warnings of punishment or a bad afterlife.
Under your own cogniscence, you have been a good person and lived purely - yet weren't allowed into the 'kingdom of heaven'?
Indeed, this surely would be a sign that a religion that preached this only does so to keep people coming back and filling the coffers - or simple control of the masses.
The Bible has indications however, that you need NOT 'know God', but will be given the chance for redemption and acceptance in your lifes' end. Perhaps your Christian friend has overlooked that. The Bible also indicates that those who have known, but chose to 'backslide' from their faith will not find forgiveness. This warns those who find the faith not to turn their back on, or keep being shitty to people, just when it suits them.
These 'Christians' would certainly be the ones you'd have to hate - church one day, muthafukkas the next.

Hypocricy is frowned upon by religion - and kiddie-fiddler priests are, in full knowledge denying and defying their own faith, yet their diety (sp?) has been known to support and hide them (!?!)

How then, can we trust fallable mankind to talk of or act as religious example?
The answer is, we cannot. Jesus was apparent as only one who could do so, he was the son of God as example that man can only fall - yet still find redemption through that example.
To find forgiveness as represented by Christ, repentance and a turning away from sin is an absolute requirement according to the New Testament.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Ten good questions to ask God:-


1 Why have you been hiding for all these years?

2 Why did you kill all those innocent people in the tsunami?

3 Do you operate on all the other 3 x 10 to the 44th stars and planets?

4 What are they all for? Or do you just enjoy a nice sky?

5 Why did you lie to us in your book about how the earth was made?

6 What are you there for?

7 Who made you? And why?

8 Why do you want worshipping all the time? Bit vain, isn't it?

9 Look, are you absolutely sure we didn't actually invent you?

10 Why am I talking to myself?