O/T Men in nurseries

[TonyW]

Brilliant argument, care to explain?

If you like.

First of all, recent Government statistics show that boys are actually excelling in most subjects compared to 10 years ago, as are girls to be fair.

Literacy rates are the highest they have ever been in this country too.

Secondly, there is no evidence whatsoever that boys suffer educationally from being taught by female teachers, although the rugby team would be a bit shit I grant you.

And, although they Gary Glitter reference may have been tongue in cheek, it is relevant, because I'm sure a lot of mum's would be VERY uncomfortable leaving their little ones at a nursery staffed by men.
Wrong, I agree, but true.

As for male role models.
You don't seriously think that your average young boy adopts a teacher as a role model do you?

They are way more likely to want to follow in the footsteps of a sportsman or entertainer than a cardigan-wearing geography teacher who spends most of their time together telling him to shut up and get some work done.

 

[TonyW]

"If a boy grows up without any positive male influence at home, playgroup or primary school is it not fair to suggest that this COULD have some form of impact on the overall educational success rates of males compared to females?"

No, it isn't.

Those factors may well influence the child's development as a whole, but are extremely unlikely to alter the child's educational achievements, simply because he is a boy.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

".

Those factors may well influence the child's development as a whole, but are extremely unlikely to alter the child's educational achievements, simply because he is a boy.

are those mutually exclusive?

 

[Wilko]

If you like.

First of all, recent Government statistics show that boys are actually excelling in most subjects compared to 10 years ago, as are girls to be fair.

Literacy rates are the highest they have ever been in this country too.

Secondly, there is no evidence whatsoever that boys suffer educationally from being taught by female teachers, although the rugby team would be a bit shit I grant you.

And, although they Gary Glitter reference may have been tongue in cheek, it is relevant, because I'm sure a lot of mum's would be VERY uncomfortable leaving their little ones at a nursery staffed by men.
Wrong, I agree, but true.

As for male role models.
You don't seriously think that your average young boy adopts a teacher as a role model do you?

They are way more likely to want to follow in the footsteps of a sportsman or entertainer than a cardigan-wearing geography teacher who spends most of their time together telling him to shut up and get some work done.

1) All Exam results have improved but the gender gap between males and females has been at its greatest during this decade.

2) There is evidence that males are affected by female only teaching, look up researchers such as Mac An Ghaill, Jackson, Mahoney and Willis to name but 4.

3) Yes, many young people do see their teachers as role models, that is the exact reason I went into the job I am doing now.

 

[Gwylan]

Has it ever been any different though ? I'm 46 but I can only remember female teachers at my infant school. It was different at junior school, there was about 50/50 I think, but not at infants.

I can't really remember my infant school, although I'm sure that most teachers were women.

But my junior school was a 50/50 split and 90% of the teachers in my secondary school were male.

There is a difference though. Thirty or 40 years ago, nearly all children would have had a father at home, these days something like 20% will be the children of a single mother. It's not so much that the kids want to copy a teacher but that boys see men doing something that puts them in a positive light.

 

[TonyW]

are those mutually exclusive?

Exactly my point.

It is being suggested (nay, stated) that a boys eduction will suffer in the absence of a male.

Total bollocks.

A young lad may grow up very differently without his father around, but he could still turn out to be a genius.
Or, he may well not be one of life's educationally gifted, but works hard and does well at school.

The "yeah my Dad left us when I was little" argument just doesn't hold any water.

Whilst its very sad, it's so often used as a cop-out by lazy gits.

 

[Jahooli]

I have found this thread very interesting but would like to add that girls would benefit from a positive male presence around them too (I haven't re-read the thread to check but it seems that it's mainly concerned with young lads).

 

[Wilko]

I have found this thread very interesting but would like to add that girls would benefit from a positive male presence around them too (I haven't re-read the thread to check but it seems that it's mainly concerned with young lads).

Quite right. There needs to be a balance of both male and female input throughout the early lives of young learners.

 

[TonyW]

1) All Exam results have improved but the gender gap between males and females has been at its greatest during this decade.

2) There is evidence that males are affected by female only teaching, look up researchers such as Mac An Ghaill, Jackson, Mahoney and Willis to name but 4.

3) Yes, many young people do see their teachers as role models, that is the exact reason I went into the job I am doing now.

If you want to be thorough, try looking up Mary Thornton and Pat Bricheno, Lorna Hamilton, Madeleine Arnot and Jennifer Gubb (a study conducted in West Sussex by the way) - they don't agree with you!!!

 

[Pavilionaire]

When I look back on my education it may be coincidence but ALL of the teachers that I now consider to be inspirational, or a characters, were all men. The best, the quirkiest, the scariest - all men.

I think that the "male role model" argument can be overblown but the male teachers I had were so much more different, wheareas the only variance between the women teacher's was how emotional they got. Maybe being exposed to male teachers who are bastards, weak, vain, passionate gives kids a more realistic idea of what's in the real world, rather than what you get from the more generic female teaching style?

 

[Wilko]

Exactly my point.

It is being suggested (nay, stated) that a boys eduction will suffer in the absence of a male.

Total bollocks.

.

If you look back to my early post you will notice that it states in block capitals: COULD have an impact.

 

[Wilko]

If you want to be thorough, try looking up Mary Thornton and Pat Bricheno, Lorna Hamilton, Madeleine Arnot and Jennifer Gubb (a study conducted in West Sussex by the way) - they don't agree with you!!!

They must be right then eh!! Just cause they do not agree with me then are you disregarding all those theorists that state there COULD be some impact on male educational learning?

Even if male results did not improve due to more males in our earl years education, do you not think that it is good for society for children to grow up with a more even balance of males and females for their socialisation process?

 

[Wilko]

When I look back on my education it may be coincidence but ALL of the teachers that I now consider to be inspirational, or a characters, were all men. The best, the quirkiest, the scariest - all men.

I think that the "male role model" argument can be overblown but the male teachers I had were so much more different, wheareas the only variance between the women teacher's was how emotional they got. Maybe being exposed to male teachers who are bastards, weak, vain, passionate gives kids a more realistic idea of what's in the real world, rather than what you get from the more generic female teaching style?

Correct. I am not saying that males teachers are better but the variety of male and female teachers for young learners is surely important.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

maybe there's some gays out there who would like that particular job, as allegedly they make good parents ??

 

[TonyW]

They must be right then eh!! Just cause they do not agree with me then are you disregarding all those theorists that state there COULD be some impact on male educational learning?

Even if male results did not improve due to more males in our earl years education, do you not think that it is good for society for children to grow up with a more even balance of males and females for their socialisation process?

Err, well I think I'd ratehr my son be educated by a GOOD teacher, if that good teacher happens to be a woman, then I'd take her over a bad male teacher any day of the week.

I think you may need to sit down and realise that not all research that has been carried out will agree with your way of thinking.

 

[TonyW]

I can't really remember my infant school, although I'm sure that most teachers were women.

But my junior school was a 50/50 split and 90% of the teachers in my secondary school were male.

There is a difference though. Thirty or 40 years ago, nearly all children would have had a father at home, these days something like 20% will be the children of a single mother. It's not so much that the kids want to copy a teacher but that boys see men doing something that puts them in a positive light.

The thing is, school children don't actually see their teachers doing anything else but teach.

They don't interact with them at any other level for the most part, and rightly so.

 

[TonyW]

Correct. I am not saying that males teachers are better but the variety of male and female teachers for young learners is surely important.

Why, in what way?
They will be teaching the exact same things, in the exact same way.

 

[TonyW]

To go back to my point about research, that wasn't meant as a pop at you personally Wiko, just that research can very often be conducted to prove (or disprove) just about anything.

People have to sift through research from both sides of the coin to make their own minds up.

And, as all research is funded by somebody, its often difficult to know what is completely legit, and what has been written in the hope of securing further research grants.

 

[Lush]

My daughter went to a nursery (attached to a state primary school) in Croydon where the 'teacher' was male, with female classroom assistants (in my experience there is rarely just one adult around in primary classes).

She has great memories of him doing the 'swinging around the bucket of water so none comes out' trick on the school field - the kind of thing that Mrs Infant School Teacher, while lovely and caring, would probably never do.

It did seem though that there were a number of mums just looking for an excuse to find something - anything - 'inappropriate' - in order to create a big fuss and draw some attention to themselves. Becoming a male primary school teacher seems to carry a massive risk.

 

[TonyW]

Its a very sad world that the media has created for us in recent years.

But I suppose you can't blame blokes from shying away from these types of job.