Not to be bitter in anyway but...

[Uncle Spielberg]

All joking aside the failure to qualify has had a massive factor in high street sales of all descriptions plummeting and no feel good factor where people get their wallets out. Failure to qualify means the economy is far worse this year than it would have been. Many countries have come out of a recession and economic disaster by winning a major sporting tournament. FACT.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

Easy - read the text dear and you will see what I mean.

You ahve called a number of Albion players into question from a skill perspective and talent - that does not make you anti Albion does it.

Much of your writing and scribing on here is first class - don't let your standards slip with pointless remarks like that.

You're better than that

XX

 

[SUUUUUUUPER Kev The Ape]

Easy - read the text dear and you will see what I mean.

You ahve called a number of Albion players into question from a skill perspective and talent - that does not make you anti Albion does it.

Much of your writing and scribing on here is first class - don't let your standards slip with pointless remarks like that.

You're better than that

XX

 

[Silent Bob]

I never said we'd WIN it - tho we blatently should and could be there challenging to win it...

I agree Eng dont play exactly how they should but i'm very optomistic and a believer - of course Eng should be one of the top 5 in the world - look at the players we have...

I'm generally an optimist too but sometimes you have to take a balance look at things. When I look at the players we have, I think they're a pretty average bunch in the scheme of things. Enough talent that they should probably be at this tournament certainly (though we have no divine right obviously) but compared with other top footballing nations, we're mediocre.

 

[Sheebo]

I'm generally an optimist too but sometimes you have to take a balance look at things. When I look at the players we have, I think they're a pretty average bunch in the scheme of things. Enough talent that they should probably be at this tournament certainly (though we have no divine right obviously) but compared with other top footballing nations, we're mediocre.

I disagree but accept your point...

I think we're a lot better than average...

Terry, Rio, Cole x2, Becks, Gerrard, Lamps, Rooney, Owen - all WORLD class surely...

 

[Sheebo]

All joking aside the failure to qualify has had a massive factor in high street sales of all descriptions plummeting and no feel good factor where people get their wallets out. Failure to qualify means the economy is far worse this year than it would have been. Many countries have come out of a recession and economic disaster by winning a major sporting tournament. FACT.

TRUE

A very interesting article in Four Four Two this month by the qeezer who writes every day for the telegraph I believe - saying that it's no co-incidence that all this talk of recession has something to do with the fact we didn't qualify -the eceonomy has lost MILLIONS cos of it...

 

[Silent Bob]

I disagree but accept your point...

I think we're a lot better than average...

Terry, Rio, Cole x2, Becks, Gerrard, Lamps, Rooney, Owen - all WORLD class surely...

I think defensively we are ok, Terry is slightly overrated but a good defender none the less, Ferdinand is superb, Ashley Cole on top of his game is better than most leftbacks. I like Richards at rightback too (more than at centreback). But the rest - Beckham if he was ever world class is certainly not any more, Gerrard and Lampard have some good qualities, but both slightly overrated because of their goals output. They haven't produced internationally, maybe they've been used the wrong way but I don't think we have the players to play them the way their clubs do. Joe Cole is a good player, but he stands out among the England side as one of the few with skill and ingenuity, whereas other countries produce lots of players like this. Rooney - he's a talent, but remember his international debut? He looked amazing, he looked like he'd be one of the best in the world within years and it hasn't happened, he's a long way off that at the moment. Owen is good but such a one dimensional player, there are countless strikers better than him in world football.
What we don't have is many skillfull, creative players, two footed players, passing midfielders who make the game tick and pass the ball intelligently, top strikers, top goalkeepers.
In the end it's about what happens on the pitch - and only sporadically since 1990 have we looked anything like a strong team at international level, we've had a lot of managers and many many players in that time and yet we've never threatened to win a tournament other than maybe 96. At some point you have to accept that we're NOT a great side, we don't produce enough players of a high enough standard, arguably we never have.

 

[Easy 10]

Easy - read the text dear and you will see what I mean.

You ahve called a number of Albion players into question from a skill perspective and talent - that does not make you anti Albion does it.

Much of your writing and scribing on here is first class - don't let your standards slip with pointless remarks like that.

You're better than that

XX

True enough Mr Trousers, I do indeed give stick to the Albion players as and when I feel they deserve it....but I would never "delight in their abysmal efforts to reach mediocrity" - that would be borderline ANTI-Albion surely ?

(although I do dream of us one day being as good as mediocre)

XXX

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

TRUE

A very interesting article in Four Four Two this month by the qeezer who writes every day for the telegraph I believe - saying that it's no co-incidence that all this talk of recession has something to do with the fact we didn't qualify -the eceonomy has lost MILLIONS cos of it...

Hundreds of millions. Almost every aspect of high street trade has lost and people spend money when they fell good about things. England being spectators has had a mssive impact on the collective countries self esteem whether you like football or not.

 

[Brovion]

i was having a 'POP' at people on here who critisise England after EVERY friendly win and say it's boring and we're shit etc...

U obviously took that directed at YOU cos u no ur one of those who do that regularly?!!!

No, sorry, in that case I misunderstood you. I thought you were having a go at those of us who say that you simply can't blame the manager every time we fail to win a tournament - although McClaren WAS shit.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

mmmm - yeah ok fair point.

I think the line between banter and real opinion gets clouded. I dont mind England doing well but like all supporters rivals doing well when your own team is mud is hard to take.

Lets face it - can you think of a more abject side tha Scotland under Vogts. It was horrible and was the mark of jokes and jibes from every Engfland fan.

Think of Palace lifting the Champions league trophy (snigger) and us losing to Uckfield Town in the Sussex Senior cup and would Palace posters rub our faces in it of course.

Did Palace posters contribute both to the Falmer and the REMF efforts - of course they did.

I just have a sneaking feeling that England have a team that no-one really fears playing in the top tier of international teams - and I do not class Scotland in that tier.

Do you fancy taking on Holland? Spain are underachievers and yet bring Fabregas off the bench - could England do that?

The Germans, the Portuguese have shown that England are highly beatable - and to be frank the Germans have done that in the past with a team that I do not rate as highly as the one they have at the moment.

It is a shame as I would prefer England to be there than not - BUT - the simple facts to me are that the European teams ahead of England for the forseeable future number around 6

Add to that the South American sides and dare I say the African teams who would challenge in the World Cup then I cannot see England getting through the next groups once they have qualified.

It matters not that my own beloved team come below these expectations - qualification for a tournament is a massive success to us and I believe we are closer to achieving our goal than England are of winning a major tournament.

That is not a rant darlings - just an opinion which i think is based on reasonable facts? xx

 

[John Bumlick]

* Que the NSC anti - England mob who don't have a clue *

you f***ing imbecile.

 

[Chesney Christ]

I think what aggravates me about the whole England thing is that whenever we fail, people's reaction is just to say "well, we obviously weren't good enough". No analysis, no insight, no thought as to what could be causing our constant underachievement, just a simple "the players are rubbish". So, these English footballers - ten of whom recently played in the Champions League final, a competition with generally a far higher standard than a World Cup or European Championship - are simply rubbish at football are they? Total nonsense.

What galls me is that these people would never say the same about the Dutch or the Spanish, perennial underachievers who have failed so much in the last 15-20 years that they have made us look positively successful. Do Spain continually fail simply because the likes of Cesc Fabregas, Xavi Hernandez , Pep Guardiola, Gonzalez Raul, Fernando Torres, Hierro, Morientes and Carlos Puyol are crap footballers? Likewise with the Dutch - Bergkamp, Kluivert, Cocu, Davids, De Boer, Van Nistelrooy. All shit are they? The Greece team that won Euro 2004 - were they better man for man than any Spanish or Dutch team in the last 50 years? Course not, not one single Greek player from that winning side would get even close to a place in Spain or Holland's Euro 2008 squads, let alone starting eleven.

Similarly, the players in the German sides of the last twenty years couldn't hold a candle individually to the vast majority of Spanish or Dutch players during that period, but collectively they are far more successful. With the possible exception of Ballack, I don't believe one player in the German team who beat Poland the other day would be good enough to get in the Spain team right now, but you can bet your bottom dollar than Germany will get as far - if not further - than Spain in this tournament.

So, if we want to have a debate about the England team's failings - poor management, tired players, club vs country problems, endless injuries, terribly run FA, high pressure from the tabloid press, lack of confidence, over-inflated national expectations - lets have one, but spare me this crap about the players just being simply "shit" and go and watch a video of Steven Gerrard single handedly tearing AC Milan to pieces in the 2005 Champions League Final. Watch Lampard banging them in left right and centre for Chelsea in the Champions League over the last three or four years. Watch Owen Hargreaves bossing the midfield during Bayern Munich's Champions League Final Victory. Watch Wayne Rooney tearing into top European defences for Manchester United. Watch Michael Carrick and Paul Scholes passing Roma off the pitch, just a year after being part of a Man United team who beat the same opponents 7-1. Watch Rio Ferdinand patrolling the defence of the Champions League winners, and Terry patrolling the defence of the Champions League runners up. Then come back and tell me the players are shit....

 

[Robbie G]

All joking aside the failure to qualify has had a massive factor in high street sales of all descriptions plummeting and no feel good factor where people get their wallets out. Failure to qualify means the economy is far worse this year than it would have been. Many countries have come out of a recession and economic disaster by winning a major sporting tournament. FACT.

True that lots of money has been lost due to the tournament. But I can't help but feel it wouldn't have done a great deal of difference. Regardless of England not qualifying, you would still have the credit crunch in the states, the increase in oil prices and increases in food prices. Admittedly, qualifying for the tournament would have boosted consumer expenditure by a bit but I can't see it having such a large impact to offset the current supply-side shocks.

 

[Easy 10]

I think what aggravates me about the whole England thing is that whenever we fail, people's reaction is just to say "well, we obviously weren't good enough". No analysis, no insight, no thought as to what could be causing our constant underachievement, just a simple "the players are rubbish". So, these English footballers - ten of whom recently played in the Champions League final, a competition with generally a far higher standard than a World Cup or European Championship - are simply rubbish at football are they? Total nonsense.

What galls me is that these people would never say the same about the Dutch or the Spanish, perennial underachievers who have failed so much in the last 15-20 years that they have made us look positively successful. Do Spain continually fail simply because the likes of Cesc Fabregas, Xavi Hernandez , Pep Guardiola, Gonzalez Raul, Fernando Torres, Hierro, Morientes and Carlos Puyol are crap footballers? Likewise with the Dutch - Bergkamp, Kluivert, Cocu, Davids, De Boer, Van Nistelrooy. All shit are they? The Greece team that won Euro 2004 - were they better man for man than any Spanish or Dutch team in the last 50 years? Course not, not one single Greek player from that winning side would get even close to a place in Spain or Holland's Euro 2008 squads, let alone starting eleven.

Similarly, the players in the German sides of the last twenty years couldn't hold a candle individually to the vast majority of Spanish or Dutch players during that period, but collectively they are far more successful. With the possible exception of Ballack, I don't believe one player in the German team who beat Poland the other day would be good enough to get in the Spain team right now, but you can bet your bottom dollar than Germany will get as far - if not further - than Spain in this tournament.

So, if we want to have a debate about the England team's failings - poor management, tired players, club vs country problems, endless injuries, terribly run FA, high pressure from the tabloid press, lack of confidence, over-inflated national expectations - lets have one, but spare me this crap about the players just being simply "shit" and go and watch a video of Steven Gerrard single handedly tearing AC Milan to pieces in the 2005 Champions League Final. Watch Lampard banging them in left right and centre for Chelsea in the Champions League over the last three or four years. Watch Owen Hargreaves bossing the midfield during Bayern Munich's Champions League Final Victory. Watch Wayne Rooney tearing into top European defences for Manchester United. Watch Michael Carrick and Paul Scholes passing Roma off the pitch, just a year after being part of a Man United team who beat the same opponents 7-1. Watch Rio Ferdinand patrolling the defence of the Champions League winners, and Terry patrolling the defence of the Champions League runners up. Then come back and tell me the players are shit....

Great post.
The sum is never as good as its parts with England, but we ain't the only ones.

 

[drew]

I think what aggravates me about the whole England thing is that whenever we fail, people's reaction is just to say "well, we obviously weren't good enough". No analysis, no insight, no thought as to what could be causing our constant underachievement, just a simple "the players are rubbish". So, these English footballers - ten of whom recently played in the Champions League final, a competition with generally a far higher standard than a World Cup or European Championship - are simply rubbish at football are they? Total nonsense.

What galls me is that these people would never say the same about the Dutch or the Spanish, perennial underachievers who have failed so much in the last 15-20 years that they have made us look positively successful. Do Spain continually fail simply because the likes of Cesc Fabregas, Xavi Hernandez , Pep Guardiola, Gonzalez Raul, Fernando Torres, Hierro, Morientes and Carlos Puyol are crap footballers? Likewise with the Dutch - Bergkamp, Kluivert, Cocu, Davids, De Boer, Van Nistelrooy. All shit are they? The Greece team that won Euro 2004 - were they better man for man than any Spanish or Dutch team in the last 50 years? Course not, not one single Greek player from that winning side would get even close to a place in Spain or Holland's Euro 2008 squads, let alone starting eleven.

Similarly, the players in the German sides of the last twenty years couldn't hold a candle individually to the vast majority of Spanish or Dutch players during that period, but collectively they are far more successful. With the possible exception of Ballack, I don't believe one player in the German team who beat Poland the other day would be good enough to get in the Spain team right now, but you can bet your bottom dollar than Germany will get as far - if not further - than Spain in this tournament.

So, if we want to have a debate about the England team's failings - poor management, tired players, club vs country problems, endless injuries, terribly run FA, high pressure from the tabloid press, lack of confidence, over-inflated national expectations - lets have one, but spare me this crap about the players just being simply "shit" and go and watch a video of Steven Gerrard single handedly tearing AC Milan to pieces in the 2005 Champions League Final. Watch Lampard banging them in left right and centre for Chelsea in the Champions League over the last three or four years. Watch Owen Hargreaves bossing the midfield during Bayern Munich's Champions League Final Victory. Watch Wayne Rooney tearing into top European defences for Manchester United. Watch Michael Carrick and Paul Scholes passing Roma off the pitch, just a year after being part of a Man United team who beat the same opponents 7-1. Watch Rio Ferdinand patrolling the defence of the Champions League winners, and Terry patrolling the defence of the Champions League runners up. Then come back and tell me the players are shit....

Three pages and only one decent post!!! (not including mine of course).

Whilst disappointed about not qualifying, as one person mentioned, Mclaren is out and that is a good start. I seem to remember the silver lining of 1994 was the loss of Taylor and look how good Euro 1996 was.

With regard to the poster slagging off Barwick, can you explain why? My understanding was that he was originally for O'Neil as manager but the board went for McLaren in 2006?

 

[Easy 10]

With regard to the poster slagging off Barwick, can you explain why? My understanding was that he was originally for O'Neil as manager but the board went for McLaren in 2006?

"We hit the target early today. It started in early March and it ended up in May. We have had a job to do and it's taken us as long as it's taken us. It may have been tedious from where you were, at times it's been tedious from where we are, but it's taken as long as it has.

"I saw Felipe Scolari on three occasions. There were potential developments. He then declared he had no interest in the job. We never offered him the job. Steve did two fantastic interviews. He was my first choice, the FA board's unanimous choice. My first choice was always Steve. That might be difficult for people to get their heads across."

B. Barwick
04.05.06

 

[clapham_gull]

I'm positively glad that England didn't qualify and I mean that most sincerely.

Has helped the debate as to why we aren't good enough, had led to people questioning the premiership and has stopped the general "we're good enough to win it" rubbish that masks the problems in English football.

I haven't got the answers, but I hope us not being there may lead us to find them.

If it's given the FA and fans a bit of breathing space to sort it out, then it's a good thing.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Questions]

I'm positively glad that England didn't qualify and I mean that most sincerely.

Has helped the debate as to why we aren't good enough, had led to people questioning the premiership and has stopped the general "we're good enough to win it" rubbish that masks the problems in English football.

I haven't got the answers, but I hope us not being there may lead us to find them.

If it's given the FA and fans a bit of breathing space to sort it out, then it's a good thing.

Fingers crossed.

The good thing that has come out of our unsuccessful qualification is that twat Maclaren has gone. If Coppello fails then we know there are deep rooted problems because managers do not come much better than him.

I suspect our inferior technique breaks down when the pressure is on.
I go back to the junior football discussion from last week.

 

[drew]

"We hit the target early today. It started in early March and it ended up in May. We have had a job to do and it's taken us as long as it's taken us. It may have been tedious from where you were, at times it's been tedious from where we are, but it's taken as long as it has.

"I saw Felipe Scolari on three occasions. There were potential developments. He then declared he had no interest in the job. We never offered him the job. Steve did two fantastic interviews. He was my first choice, the FA board's unanimous choice. My first choice was always Steve. That might be difficult for people to get their heads across."

B. Barwick
04.05.06

He is hardly going to say otherwise is he? Couldn't get out of questions concerning Scholari as FA were seen by press going to Portugal. As for my understanding re his preference for O'Neil, think I heard it on Sunday Supplement on Sky by one of the prestigious journos but can't remember which one.