[Football] Next team to suffer racist abuse at Spurs....

[wellquickwoody]

That's the equivalent of if I don't believe it, it's not happening.

Boxxocks is it.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

So we should all just accept whatever is published without question? Righty ho, good luck with that then............

No, always question. But what it appears the poster did is place doubt on a statistic based on nothing more than their own feelings or hunch, presumably because the stat doesn't fit with their world view. We see this all the time and I think it's more dangerous.

Scientists, statisticians and so on collate evidence, run analyses and politicians or interest groups just declare it as 'fake news' with a catchy soundbite and it gets swallowed up whole by their supporters. All sides do it, but as an aside here's a trumpian example. It's all very amusing for a lefty like me, but the relevant point to this thread is from 3:10 onwards

 

[wellquickwoody]

I thought Chris Wilder's response, when asked about this, was spot on. Essentially, supporters need to help police their own stadium and if they hear abuse, report it. What else would work?

George Orwell was a genius all those years ago.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You said Remainers are creating dangerous resentment in the U.K. This is what I was asking about.

Actually I didn’t. I said that remaining can just as easily (as leaving) stir up dangerous feelings. Germany is a good example. Neither can be quantified and in any case no society should be intimidated into following the agenda of the extremists by changing public policy. Therefore neither side should seek to use it to justify their position.

 

[rippleman]

Oh goody...another Brexit thread!

Racism and homophobia were around in society and football long before Brexit was a twinkle in Cameron's eye. And it used to be far, far worse than it is today. Back in the 70s / 80s there would be hundreds if not thousands of fans spewing abuse at black players. Now it is just one or two idiots. Every club has them (although Burnley might have more than most) but clubs, fans, the authorities and society itself now recognise that the spiteful racist bile is unacceptable. Every club now has BAME players; that certainly wasn't the case when I first started going to the Goldstone. I still can't get my head around fans racially abusing opponents black players when they have black players at their own club.

I know that our fans do report it when it occurs inside the ground and our club quite rightly imposes the toughest sanctions on those identified. I'm not convinced that the OB are anywhere near as tough when racist or homophobic abuse happens outside of the ground.

We have to police it ourselves; the club can't see and hear everything that goes on inside the ground. If you hear racist or homophobic abuse at a match, report it. Every single time. We can only police our own fans; it is down to the fans of other clubs to act in a similar vein.

But please don't try to "excuse" racism by blaming it on Brexit. That's just silly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Boxxocks is it.

Thank you for proving my point, perfectly.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

My point was really that [MENTION=258]Pavilionaire[/MENTION] was perfectly entltled to posit the link on a thread about race, but not a thread about, say, cricket or Potter's tactics or restaurants. You are free to shoot it down. I respect both of your opinions. It would be nice to stick to a middle line. However, if you look at NSC it rather backs up [MENTION=17447]Bakero[/MENTION] 's comment that not all leavers are racists but all racists are leavers. There are quite a few good "leave" posters on the Brexit thread who I do not believe for a second are racists. There are two in particular who are. They are the ones who I would also expect now feel it's ok to get back to the bananas and monkey chants at games. For balance, the most extreme idiot on that thread with the longest ban so far was a remainer.

.

Yup, I can accept that. Moderating is a tough job and there will always be judgement calls.

 

[NooBHA]

Isn't this just typical of a political fanatic desperate to twist anything? He did not call Muslim women such in general as you are suggesting. He was talking of burkhas, which remind everyone of bank robbers and letter boxes when he was despairing of the way women are treated, if forced to wear such garb.

Nuns in some Catholic Religious Orders are forced to wear a similar form of clothing. For the same reason "Modesty" I didn't see him rushing to slaughter them for being downtrodden 2nd class citizens.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Actually I didn’t. I said that remaining can just as easily (as leaving) stir up dangerous feelings. Germany is a good example. Neither can be quantified and in any case no society should be intimidated into following the agenda of the extremists by changing public policy. Therefore neither side should seek to use it to justify their position.

I suggest you take another look at Germany. Yes, there are some immigration issues here but the EU typically isn’t the main plank of the argument.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I suggest you take another look at Germany. Yes, there are some immigration issues here but the EU typically isn’t the main plank of the argument.

The AFD are against further EU integration which goes against mainstream thinking in Germany. I would never suggest that party should be placated simply because it organizes anti immigration demonstrations.
Bigotry and division exist everywhere and Germany and pre referendum UK are the evidence. It is ridiculous to try to link it to leaving the EU as part of a justification of one’s own views.

 

[Steve in Japan]

George Orwell was a genius all those years ago.

que?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Thank you for proving my point, perfectly.

I disagreed with you, how can that prove your point?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Oh goody...another Brexit thread!

Racism and homophobia were around in society and football long before Brexit was a twinkle in Cameron's eye. And it used to be far, far worse than it is today. Back in the 70s / 80s there would be hundreds if not thousands of fans spewing abuse at black players. Now it is just one or two idiots. Every club has them (although Burnley might have more than most) but clubs, fans, the authorities and society itself now recognise that the spiteful racist bile is unacceptable. Every club now has BAME players; that certainly wasn't the case when I first started going to the Goldstone. I still can't get my head around fans racially abusing opponents black players when they have black players at their own club.

I know that our fans do report it when it occurs inside the ground and our club quite rightly imposes the toughest sanctions on those identified. I'm not convinced that the OB are anywhere near as tough when racist or homophobic abuse happens outside of the ground.

We have to police it ourselves; the club can't see and hear everything that goes on inside the ground. If you hear racist or homophobic abuse at a match, report it. Every single time. We can only police our own fans; it is down to the fans of other clubs to act in a similar vein.

But please don't try to "excuse" racism by blaming it on Brexit. That's just silly.

Yep, been around for ages, and we were doing so well getting rid of it, and then it comes roaring back with brexit. I suppose it's good it's out in the open, we realise that there are far more ********s out there than we first thought, and we can try and get to grips with it again.

Hurts when I hear friends of mine, who have lived in this country with no problem for years, suddenly report they've got abuse. No way that can be put down as anything other than brexit related, but absolutely that shouldn't be used as an 'excuse'. It's a disease that's been festering.

Why can't people just hate immigration but be nice to immigrants? It's not their fault. I want us to control immigration. But I will always be welcoming to immigrants, its just humanity isnt it?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The AFD are against further EU integration which goes against mainstream thinking in Germany. I would never suggest that party should be placated simply because it organizes anti immigration demonstrations.
Bigotry and division exist everywhere and Germany and pre referendum UK are the evidence. It is ridiculous to try to link it to leaving the EU as part of a justification of one’s own views.

The Afd are very small part of the political society, in the same way the BNP were here. Society as a whole, keep them in their small world.
It's when people try to justify it, that society turns a blind eye. Hopefully the tide will turn again.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I disagreed with you, how can that prove your point?

Their point was that people are prone to disagreeing with something or someone just because they personally don't believe it, regardless of facts or evidence presented. And then you blanket disagreed with him/her. Probably doesn't prove his/her point, but certainly supports it

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The AFD are against further EU integration which goes against mainstream thinking in Germany. I would never suggest that party should be placated simply because it organizes anti immigration demonstrations.
Bigotry and division exist everywhere and Germany and pre referendum UK are the evidence. It is ridiculous to try to link it to leaving the EU as part of a justification of one’s own views.

Being against further integration is a long way, and quite different to, wanting to leave the EU. As I say, and which you seem to agree with, leaving isn’t the primary plank of the discussion here. I don’t agree with your other opinions in this thread either.

Another difference is that it’s Xmas here this evening, and I need to get ready. Have a nice day.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Being against further integration is a long way, and quite different to, wanting to leave the EU. As I say, and which you seem to agree with, leaving isn’t the primary plank of the discussion here. I don’t agree with your other opinions in this thread either.

Another difference is that it’s Xmas here this evening, and I need to get ready. Have a nice day.

Enjoy!

 

[dazzer6666]

Oh goody...another Brexit thread!

Racism and homophobia were around in society and football long before Brexit was a twinkle in Cameron's eye. And it used to be far, far worse than it is today. Back in the 70s / 80s there would be hundreds if not thousands of fans spewing abuse at black players. Now it is just one or two idiots. Every club has them (although Burnley might have more than most) but clubs, fans, the authorities and society itself now recognise that the spiteful racist bile is unacceptable. Every club now has BAME players; that certainly wasn't the case when I first started going to the Goldstone. I still can't get my head around fans racially abusing opponents black players when they have black players at their own club.

I know that our fans do report it when it occurs inside the ground and our club quite rightly imposes the toughest sanctions on those identified. I'm not convinced that the OB are anywhere near as tough when racist or homophobic abuse happens outside of the ground.

We have to police it ourselves; the club can't see and hear everything that goes on inside the ground. If you hear racist or homophobic abuse at a match, report it. Every single time. We can only police our own fans; it is down to the fans of other clubs to act in a similar vein.

But please don't try to "excuse" racism by blaming it on Brexit. That's just silly.

Quite - worth reading Paul Canoville's account of when he became Chelsea's first black player (early 80s)....the abuse he got from the stands (from Chelsea fans obviously - their delightful NF contingent presumably) was horrific. He also ended up leaving the club after a fight with a team-mate who called him a 'black ***t' - the club talked him in to leaving rather than deal with it (and he was advised not to name and shame the individual in his book)

 

[Pavilionaire]

Actually I didn’t. I said that remaining can just as easily (as leaving) stir up dangerous feelings. Germany is a good example. Neither can be quantified and in any case no society should be intimidated into following the agenda of the extremists by changing public policy. Therefore neither side should seek to use it to justify their position.

Give it a rest fella.

 

[pastafarian]

My point was really that [MENTION=258]Pavilionaire[/MENTION] was perfectly entltled to posit the link on a thread about race, but not a thread about, say, cricket or Potter's tactics or restaurants. You are free to shoot it down. I respect both of your opinions. It would be nice to stick to a middle line. However, if you look at NSC it rather backs up [MENTION=17447]Bakero[/MENTION] 's comment that not all leavers are racists but all racists are leavers. There are quite a few good "leave" posters on the Brexit thread who I do not believe for a second are racists. There are two in particular who are. They are the ones who I would also expect now feel it's ok to get back to the bananas and monkey chants at games. For balance, the most extreme idiot on that thread with the longest ban so far was a remainer.

I clearly missed it but do you have a link to the evidence that all the anti-Semitic racists associated with the Labour party are Leavers. Im presuming the evidence must be out there if the argument “not all leavers are racists but all racists are leavers” is backed up and holds water and the comment isnt just a load of vacuous ballocks.