[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Gwylan]

I've joined too. I don't know who I'm voting for yet, but it definitely won't be RLB

 

[beorhthelm]

Britain will never vote in a hard left government, the only way Labour will win again is from the centre. They also need to get Scotland back, they've been left out in the cold by Westminster...

that's a funny way to describe devolution.

 

[essbee1]

The problem with many Labour supporters on the left-wing is that they dream of a world that was left
behind fifty years plus ago and is simply unattainable now.

People have become selfish, society has become selfish, most politicians have become self-centered
and there is no place left for 'good of all' socialism because people ain't like that any more. And we won't
turn back. I'm no fan of the alternative believe me, but that's the way it is. If RLB gets the nod, I'm afraid people
will see this as a continuation of what has come before. Fine - but that won't win elections.

 

[Is it PotG?]

The problem with many Labour supporters on the left-wing is that they dream of a world that was left
behind fifty years plus ago and is simply unattainable now.

People have become selfish, society has become selfish, most politicians have become self-centered
and there is no place left for 'good of all' socialism because people ain't like that any more. And we won't
turn back. I'm no fan of the alternative believe me, but that's the way it is. If RLB gets the nod, I'm afraid people
will see this as a continuation of what has come before. Fine - but that won't win elections.

Genuinely interested as to who you think the last decent, 'good of all socialist' leader/PM was?

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

As someone once said Labour may have policies but the Tories have strategies to win elections.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Is should be Starmer, if for no other reason that the only thing the press will have against him is he is a bit posh. So they will use that to stir up the midlands and northern thickos that voted for christmas. Yes I know Blojob is even posher.

But as a Knight of the realm and QC its going to be very difficult. Corbyn was so easy to go against.

 

[essbee1]

Genuinely interested as to who you think the last decent, 'good of all socialist' leader/PM was?

My knowledge of political history isn't that bleeding good PotG!!! But I do miss politicians like Tony Benn and the like. Genuine
people (just like Corbyn in his defence). Sadly we no longer live in a society where people like this resonate.

 

[Is it PotG?]

My knowledge of political history isn't that bleeding good PotG!!! But I do miss politicians like Tony Benn and the like. Genuine
people (just like Corbyn in his defence). Sadly we no longer live in a society where people like this resonate.

I agree, Tony Benn was a standout figure, and highly respected. Hilary too comes across as OK in a world, as you say, of self-centered careerists.

On the couple of times I have head him speak, Kinnock Jr sounds pretty fair.

 

[drew]

My knowledge of political history isn't that bleeding good PotG!!! But I do miss politicians like Tony Benn and the like. Genuine
people (just like Corbyn in his defence). Sadly we no longer live in a society where people like this resonate.

What ever you think of Tony Benn, he was neither leader and, obviously, never PM.

I think the point is that there has never been a true socialist leader of the Labour party that has gone on to be PM. Labour need to learn from that but they never seem to.

 

[Titanic]

https://labourlist.org/2020/01/exclusive-poll-of-members-shows-leadership-race-narrowing/

Survation polling for Labour List show Rebecca Long-Bailey set to win by 51% - 49% over Sir Keir Starmer.

How long before he demands a 'Peoples Vote' ?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

https://labourlist.org/2020/01/exclusive-poll-of-members-shows-leadership-race-narrowing/

Survation polling for Labour List show Rebecca Long-Bailey set to win by 51% - 49% over Sir Keir Starmer.

How long before he demands a 'Peoples Vote' ?

What a massive choice they have to make - and it shows how there is such a huge split in the Labour Party.

One will take us back to Blair/Tory Lite policies - and may well win elections.

One will keep to the Corbyn path - and Labour will become merely a protest party and in the wilderness for 10 years.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And Weststander's figure of 55% for UK unversities was wrong too - although only slightly. It's just over 50%, not 55%
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ung-people-over-half-first-time-a9122321.html

But it's missing the point, I happen to agree that there should be greater emphasis on vocational training with fewer going to universities. I also believe that there should be more flexibility on university courses, with more intense two-year courses available or perhaps a mix of on-site learning with MOOCs,

This was mooted 20 years ago. The problem is this would create continuous 12 month teaching, no time for research, and more importantly, no time for assessment (exams and marking). I work for a Russell group uni - we have not discussed this issue for 10+ years. Since then the logistics involved in assessment have mushroomed. I had to start to put together four summer exam papers back in December. This means getting questions from individual lecturerers, getting 'model answers' from them (external examiners demand these), ensuring minimal overlap, a good balance of content from the courses, maintaining my paperwork, assembling the scripts, then sending them off to be assimilated and recored by administrators, who then send the scripts to external examiners. The latter then try to tinker with the questions, usually damaging them in he process, so there is a lot of to and fro, via the acedmic centre, with delays and confusion. And then there is a risk a lecture may be cancelled due to weather etc, meaning the script has to be rewritten (hasn't happened to me yet in 30 years, but the day will come). The marking is a nightmare. Scripts go to the academic centre where every essay is ticked off to ensure that candidates don't accidentally lose marks because a script is lost. Then the scripts are mailed to markers (some are external). Did I mention that in the run up the course organiser (me) is expected to provide postal addresses for all markers? The marking is done online. The system defaults to blind double marking. Discrepancies of +5% require moderation. A text has to be completed so that a justification is given for a mark. Incidentally given the 'subjectivity' of essays you can now see why there is such a move to multiple choice or short answer questions (which is dumbing down in my book). I have around 100 essays to mark in the exam period, nominally 25 hours of actual marking but it takes much longer than that. I recon you can mark consistently and reasonably for about 4 hours a day. So that's 6 days of marking *noting that we don't actually have 6 days with nothing to do - I get maybe 50 emails a day via work to deal with). Don't get me wrong, I love mu job, but there are only so many hours in a day. And this is only part of it. Smear this across the year with 2 year degrees and the wole thing will collapse.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Is should be Starmer, if for no other reason that the only thing the press will have against him is he is a bit posh. So they will use that to stir up the midlands and northern thickos that voted for christmas. Yes I know Blojob is even posher.

But as a Knight of the realm and QC its going to be very difficult. Corbyn was so easy to go against.

He isn't even a bit posh. His Dad was a toolmaker, his mother a nurse, and he went to a state Grammar school. What he has done is made the best of a brilliant mind, by working his way up through the law, became a QC, and then head of the CPS. His knighthood was nothing to do with cronyism but for his work with human rights.

The press try to make out that he's posh and it seems they are succeeding. Northern thickos don't like intelligent people who work their way up.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree, Tony Benn was a standout figure, and highly respected. Hilary too comes across as OK in a world, as you say, of self-centered careerists.

On the couple of times I have head him speak, Kinnock Jr sounds pretty fair.

I had no time for Benn as a labour MP. His own personal lurch to the left was vainglorious. Not a team player, and yet not a leader either. It isn't always the most important thing to show how clever and right you are.

I enjoyed his general affability and good sense (he deflated Richard Dawkins by cheerfully admitting, as an athiest, how much he liked Christmas, one time on the radio), but as a politician, he was deeply flawed.

I said from the off that all the left supporters will coalesce with whoever is left (in both senses) at the head to head, and Long Bailey will end up as leader since when the vote goes to the membership both momentum and all the £25 saboteurs (tories who plan to vote for the most unelectable candidate - like when Corbyn got the nod), she will vacuum up votes. If I'm proven wrong I'll be thrilled - but I'm not holding on to any hope.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I had no time for Benn as a labour MP. His own personal lurch to the left was vainglorious. Not a team player, and yet not a leader either. It isn't always the most important thing to show how clever and right you are.

I enjoyed his general affability and good sense (he deflated Richard Dawkins by cheerfully admitting, as an athiest, how much he liked Christmas, one time on the radio), but as a politician, he was deeply flawed.

I said from the off that all the left supporters will coalesce with whoever is left (in both senses) at the head to head, and Long Bailey will end up as leader since when the vote goes to the membership both momentum and all the £25 saboteurs (tories who plan to vote for the most unelectable candidate - like when Corbyn got the nod), she will vacuum up votes. If I'm proven wrong I'll be thrilled - but I'm not holding on to any hope.

I think you've got Tony Benn's character spot on. That's how I viewed him too.
Oh, look. I've renounced my title.
Oh, look. I've renounced my double barrelled name.
Oh, look. I'm not Anthony, I'm Tony.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Can't argue with Pipe Smoker of the Year 1992.

 

[Gwylan]

https://labourlist.org/2020/01/exclusive-poll-of-members-shows-leadership-race-narrowing/

Survation polling for Labour List show Rebecca Long-Bailey set to win by 51% - 49% over Sir Keir Starmer.

How long before he demands a 'Peoples Vote' ?

That survey is a bit misleading as it's a survey of Labour List rather than the wider membership: Starmer should be pretty happy with that as RLB isn't ahead by too many.

Rather more interestingly, a survey of Momentum members showed that RLB only had the support of 52% of its members, this was despite instructions that she was the only candidate to vote for. If she can't capture a mass of Momentum members, she may well struggle in the election

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Lisa Nandy at 7 to 1 is worth a tickle

 

[nicko31]

He isn't even a bit posh. His Dad was a toolmaker, his mother a nurse, and he went to a state Grammar school. What he has done is made the best of a brilliant mind, by working his way up through the law, became a QC, and then head of the CPS. His knighthood was nothing to do with cronyism but for his work with human rights.

The press try to make out that he's posh and it seems they are succeeding. Northern thickos don't like intelligent people who work their way up.

Whoever Labour choose Viscount Rothermere, the Barclay Bros and Murdoch will see the party are a threat to their interests, the gas lighting will continue...

 

[Gwylan]

This was mooted 20 years ago. The problem is this would create continuous 12 month teaching, no time for research, and more importantly, no time for assessment .... Don't get me wrong, I love mu job, but there are only so many hours in a day. And this is only part of it. Smear this across the year with 2 year degrees and the wole thing will collapse.

Thanks for this insight Mike. However, it does assume that everything else stays in the same. When I become dictator of the UK and implement two-year degrees, things will be different.

Firstly, your analysis is based on there being the same number of students as there currently is. My thinking is based on some of those students going on vocational courses and some not going to university at all. While I agree that a system where only about 5% of kids (as was the case when I went) go to university is too low, it's swung too far the other way. I reckon that about 35% is about right. Thisa would mean that A Levels become rigorous - they should go back to the old system where a certain number had to fail and only a certain number could get an A.

Secondly, you're also assuming that the surrounding bureaucracy stays the same: in a two-year course, this could be considerably streamlined, for example, less tinkering by external examiners or more dependency on multiple choice (I get your point about dumbing down but weaker students have been sifted out at A Level).

There could also be recruitment of lecturers to make some weight of academic staff.

Finally, the use of MOOCs shouldn't be ignored, they could complement existing lectures, reducing workload of staff even further,

As an aside, does bad weather really cause lectures to be cancelled? I was at Bradford during the worst winter for 30 years and not a single lecture or seminar was cancelled. In fact, we stayed longer in the university than we had to as it was absolutely freezing at home!