[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Corbyn wasn't the problem - apart from the fact that he cowed down to the Blairites instead of taking them on over the last 4 years.


He consistently voted on the basis of principle instead of political expediency - something that he should be respected for.


Anti-semitism in the LP was a manufactured scandal - manufactured primarily by the Blairites and the media - a tiny fraction of the LP membership were accused of anti-semitism (less than 0.1% of the membership) and of that number a tiny fraction were shown to stand up to investigation (about 4% of the accusation). The mistake that Corbyn made was not facing down these accusations as politically motivated and without foundation.

At the same time Boris Johnson - who has a record of being anti-Semitic - was allowed to parade around Plymouth praising an anti-Semitic former Tory MP, with the media barely raising an eyebrow. Three Tory candidates were rightly accused of anti-Semitism - none of them were suspended and two of them now sit in the House of Commons. The Tories have a long and very deep history of anti-Semitism, of racism, of sectarianism, of homophobia, of xenophobia - all of which Boris Johnson has openly expressed - yet the entire focus of the media was on a manufactured, fictitious scandal of anti-Semitism in the LP that involved a tiny number of members and which the Blairites used to ensure that Corbyn wouldn't win the election.



I do not agree with Corbyn's position on the North of Ireland - but to suggest he was 'showboating' is nonsense. And Blair did not bring the Troubles to an end - it was primarily political pressure from working class people, Protestant and Catholic, on the republican and loyalist paramilitaries that ended the violence. It is shocking that people think that Tony Blair - a blatant war-monger - had any responsibility for 'peace' in the North. And we do not have 'peace' in the North - we have an absence of violence - none of the problems have been resolved and sectarianism is more deep seated in Northern society now than it was 25 years ago.

Something that people should be conscious of when it talking about the IRA - the IRA's military successes (like the Brighton bomb and the Enniskillen bombing) were their biggest political defeats - and the IRA's military set-backs (like the assassination of 3 IRA members in Gibraltar by the SAS) were their biggest political successes. The political fallout from the Brighton bombing had a major impact on the Republican leadership and was the start of their search for a political solution - I don't know the details of Corbyn's meeting with these minor republican figures and whether it has any impact - but it was the right thing to do. It should also be remembered - that throughout this period the Tory government were in secret talks with the IRA - and that the British state (and the RIC) colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries in the sectarian shooting of Catholics. A friend of mine - and innocent Catholic who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time - was murdered by a Loyalist gunman on 16 July 1986 in North Belfast. The loyalist gunman shot him three times in the back of the head. That loyalist gunman was being handled by the British secret service who were providing him with information - they later shopped him to the IRA after he went rogue and the IRA shot him. Nothing in the North of Ireland is black and white.


Seriously - Corbyn was on a platform with Khaled Mashaal, head of Hamas, in 2012 - Tony Blair met Mashaal in a private meeting and called the the boycott of Hamas after it won the election in 2006 'a mistake'. Corbyn has been accused for calling Hamas 'friends' (he didn't call them that in the context of supporting them) - yet Blairites and Tories alike regularly call the Saudi royal family (the people who have butchered 100,000 people in Yemen) 'friends', 'allies', 'partners' - and never a word about it.

Double standards doesn't even cover it.


Corbyn didn't 'approve' of the mural - he stated that that the mural shouldn't be removed on the grounds of free speech. The artist, LA graffiti artist, Mear One, has repeatedly stated that the mural was not anti-semitic, but anti-capitalist. Critics claimed that the six men depicted were Jewish bankers - the artist outline who the six individuals were - 2 of the six were Jewish. Like the rest of the anti-semitic claims - this is another manufactured scandal.


You have it all wrong - Corbyn has been the victim of a systematic, calculated and sustained smear campaign - initiated by the Blairites, promoted by the media, assisted by the supporters of Zionism and British imperialism and designed to wreck Corbyn's chances of being elected PM. The campaign was so effective that the same forces at play in the USA are attempting to use the same smear campaign against Bernie Sanders - except they have an extra hurdle to jump - Sanders is Jewish.

History and politics are not the same. Politics is the art of the possible. Like football. Sheffield United are demonstrating what is possible. Spurs under Poch at the start of this season were the opposite. I am quite prepared to accept your argument that we got it all wrong about Corbyn. What is missing is the reasons why we (the voters) might consider he had it right (in enough numbers to win). Politics, also, is not about facts, it is about winning.

 

[kevo]

And RLB, the leader elect will drape herself in Corbyn's metaphorical skin and pursue all the same policies and strategies, with the same rapid, dynamic, and decisive process. She's even promising to have a look behind the scenes at antisemitism! Exciting times.

Heartwarming.

Unless you'd like to see the election of a labour government, of course.

That's the big issue. I am not convinced Starmer would be a success either, though.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

History and politics are not the same. Politics is the art of the possible. Like football. Sheffield United are demonstrating what is possible. Spurs under Poch at the start of this season were the opposite. I am quite prepared to accept your argument that we got it all wrong about Corbyn. What is missing is the reasons why we (the voters) might consider he had it right (in enough numbers to win). Politics, also, is not about facts, it is about winning.

Let's be clear - Corbyn made some massive mistakes - but the sh*te that was thrown in his direction demonstrates the response of the political establishment and their financial and media backers when someone even remotely threatens their cozy little world.

Also - politics is not the 'art of the possible' - it is the art of understanding what is necessary.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That's the big issue. I am not convinced Starmer would be a success either, though.

Indeed. Funny voice.

 

[clapham_gull]

Corbyn didn't 'approve' of the mural - he stated that that the mural shouldn't be removed on the grounds of free speech. The artist, LA graffiti artist, Mear One, has repeatedly stated that the mural was not anti-semitic, but anti-capitalist.

For balance:

Corbyn originally responded to a Facebook post which questioned it's removal.

“Why? You are in good company. Rockerfeller [sic] destroyed Diego Viera’s [sic] mural because it includes a picture of Lenin.”

It was only AFTER the post was found that the Labour party released a statement:

“In 2012, Jeremy was responding to concerns about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech. However, the mural was offensive, used antisemitic imagery, which has no place in our society, and it is right that it was removed."

Later Corbyn made the personal statement:

I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.

 

[Frutos]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51035448

Unison are backing Starmer

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51035448

Unison are backing Starmer

Big surprise - one of the most Blairite undemocratic unions in Britain.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

If Nandy doesn't get the nod, Labour has learnt nowt.

None of the others has any likability.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

If Nandy doesn't get the nod, Labour has learnt nowt.

None of the others has any likability.

And how would you know? JRM was your choice wasn't he? (Tory leadership) Instead you were left with Buffoon Boris who you backed to the hilt, when it became clear your golden boy fell out of favour with a proportion of The Tory Party

I must add though mate Nandy is a good call but I would preferably have Starmer with someone like Nandy as deputy. She has time on her side. Also like to add I think most of the candidates are likeable but I fail to see how that influences to much on their political capabilities.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Big surprise - one of the most Blairite undemocratic unions in Britain.

Which backed the lovely Corbyn last time.

 

[Wardy's twin]

See Corbyn proved today why he caused Labour to lose. I am not condoning the way the US did things but Qassem Soleimani was responsible for British soldiers deaths (many) and he should have been politically astute to be seen NOT to be arguing anything against his removal. It was time to say nothing all he has done is reinforce the arguments against him as being unpatriotic.

 

[FIVESTEPS]

Rebecca has a freakishly small mouth.
Its so weirdly tiny its all i can focus on when she is on the telly.
Just saying.

Agree, her mouth always makes me think,old lady who's forgot to put her teeth in.

 

[Live by the sea]

It looks like keir which is good news for labour as at least
He’s not an extreme socialist tool.

 

[Live by the sea]

Agree, her mouth always makes me think,old lady who's forgot to put her teeth in.

Always found women with thin lips unattractive. They tend to kiss like fish as well.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Rebecca has a freakishly small mouth.
Its so weirdly tiny its all i can focus on when she is on the telly.
Just saying.

Reminds me of Mr Magoo.

 

[drew]

Politics, also, is not about facts, it is about winning.

And that is precisely what the left of the party have continually failed to grasp. Blair did and won three elections.

Corbyn was hopeless in front of the media, as demonstrated in the Andrew Neil interview and then again with Sam Coates yesterday. He has no media skills in a media savvy world. Furthermore, Labour had no expert strategist in the mould of Cummings.

As you say, politics is about winning as it doesn't matter how well received your manifesto is, it ain't going to come to fruition if you don't win.

 

[essbee1]

Always found women with thin lips unattractive. They tend to kiss like fish as well.

For Lord's sake don't start a pun fest. There's no porpoise to it.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Now THAT is a mouth

 

[BenGarfield]

See Corbyn proved today why he caused Labour to lose. I am not condoning the way the US did things but Qassem Soleimani was responsible for British soldiers deaths (many) and he should have been politically astute to be seen NOT to be arguing anything against his removal. It was time to say nothing all he has done is reinforce the arguments against him as being unpatriotic.

Was he responsible for British soldiers deaths? I thought if anything he was responsible for the deaths of isil fighters.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

For balance:

Corbyn originally responded to a Facebook post which questioned it's removal.

“Why? You are in good company. Rockerfeller [sic] destroyed Diego Viera’s [sic] mural because it includes a picture of Lenin.”

It was only AFTER the post was found that the Labour party released a statement:

“In 2012, Jeremy was responding to concerns about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech. However, the mural was offensive, used antisemitic imagery, which has no place in our society, and it is right that it was removed."

Later Corbyn made the personal statement:

I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.

And that was after the smear campaign was well underway - the mural wasn't anti-Semitic - it was anti-capitalist. The fact that two of the six figures depicted are Jewish does not make it anti-Semitic - if all six figures were Jewish (as was claimed) then there would be ground for claiming that it was anti-Semitic - but they aren't and it was not.

Corbyn made a mistake by not facing down this smear campaign - because that is what it was - his actions suggested that there was something to hide / be sorry about and that, therefore, there must be some truth in the smears (which there wasn't).