New stadium

[Grendel]

Because they are the only figures we have got.

What about these figures? Average attendences for the last ten years at the Goldstone.

1996-97 5,850
1995-96 5,256
1994-95 7,562
1993-94 7,730
1992-93 6,699
1991-92 8,010
1990-91 8,386
1989-90 8,658
1988-89 9,039
1987-88 8,934
1986-87 8,282

 

[perseus]

cf Bolton

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/bolw.htm

They are even lower.

Bolton cannot increase the size of their stadium and have put the price of the tickets up.

The Goldstone prices were not cheap when we had large crowds. It was a recession period as well. When the top flight crowds decreased to an average of 18,000 + when we were struggling, the away average was only 22,000.

Attendances are at a high now.

 

[Curious Orange]

And Goldstone attendences from 30-40 odd years ago are relevent to the capacity at Falmer because.......

......?

Particulary when you consider that I, for instance, have been watching Albion home matches for 20 years now, and the largest crowd I've been in was about 19,000 when we got promoted against Bristol Rovers in '88. The average home gate in that same 20 year period is probably substantially less than 10,000 - including for those many games I saw at the Goldstone (edit: in fact see Grendel's post, my suspicion is correct).

The point is moot as you can use any figures you like to argue any point you want.

 

[perseus]

Curious Orange. Unlucky you. When a crowd at the Goldstone reached about the 26,000 mark the buzz was really something.

I thought that was great, but when we went to White Hart Lane with 48,000 it was another League altogether.

I remember being in the West Stand when we playing Aldershot with 29,000+ in the ground and the sight of a full swaying East terrace was amazing.

Just those extra few thousand seem to make the difference.

 

[perseus]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/bha.htm

 

[perseus]

Stoke's attendances might be comparable at the moment:

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/stkc.htm

I do not think we ever realised the potential at the Goldstone, because it was too small and when the crowds went over 30,000 people could not see properly. I could guarantee that many first timers attracted to the big games, only went once as it was too cramped and hectic for them. I think this was worse at the Goldstone than other grounds at the time.

The biggest crowd was recorded at 37,000 + at the Goldstone against Fulham (before my time). From the history books and because I was there, if the Goldstone was big enough the crowd for the match against Chelsea in the sixties would have gone over the 53,000 mark.

 

[Brovion]

I would dearly love 23,000 to be a woefully small capacity but I don't think it will be. I know quoting attendance figures from the 70s 80s and 90s isn't going to give a totally accurate projection - but at least it's a guide to the level of support the club can draw on.

I think (and I stand to be corrected) that only 2 seasons ever at the Goldstone was the average crowd higher than the projected Falmer capacity (1977/78 and 1978/79). If once we've settled in at Falmer our average goes up to 20,000 (with a couple of sell-outs with tickets like goldust) it will be a brilliant - but that will still mean a big increase on what we've achieved historically,

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Good job they have budgeted for a 12,000 attendance as a breakeven then!

 

[perseus]

I would dearly love 23,000 to be a woefully small capacity but I don't think it will be. I know quoting attendance figures from the 70s 80s and 90s isn't going to give a totally accurate projection - but at least it's a guide to the level of support the club can draw on.

I think (and I stand to be corrected) that only 2 seasons ever at the Goldstone was the average crowd higher than the projected Falmer capacity (1977/78 and 1978/79). If once we've settled in at Falmer our average goes up to 20,000 (with a couple of sell-outs with tickets like goldust) it will be a brilliant - but that will still mean a big increase on what we've achieved historically,

A lot will depend how the tickets are sold. If for lots of matches (hopefully, if we are successful) they are all ticket, people will get fed up with it as they do at Withdean. A few extra thousand capacity might make all the difference. My feeling about it.

We might be like Stoke though needing discounts to get the missing fans back! I think the availability and ease to get tickets will be important though. This is up to an agreement between the Council and the Albion and is not a condition of Planning Permission.

 

[Curious Orange]

We might be like Stoke though needing discounts to get the missing fans back!

Because that worked so spectacularly for them on Saturday.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

Come on, let's survive in this division first, shall we? After Saturday, that's not looking very likely. Unfortunately, I don't think that after playing the likes of Colchester, Scunthorpe, etc for a while we would even get 12,000, let alone over 20,000. As far as expansion goes, I think there is room in the corners to put in extra seats.

 

[Infernal Optimist]

I don't think you can blame them for going for 23,000. It's a very difficult thing to predict. What I do know though is that Brighton is and always has been a 'bandwagon' club. If we were 10 points clear at the top of the Championship 23,000 wouldn't cover it.

That said, it would be a bit rash to build a ground for our Semi Final in the Champions League against Real Madrid wouldn't it?

The 70's figure may be under what we could acheive because it wa the low point for crowds post war. That said pay on the day makes a big difference and we won't see that again so who knows?

 

[Lammy]

I think this is a perfectly valid thread and an issue I have often thought of myself.

Why does everyone support a team? For me is so I can dream that one day we will compete in Europe or win the Premiership.

No matter how far fetched that dream is it is a dream none the less. Look at Wigan, look at Ipswich. Look at Nottingham Forest!

No one is suggesting that Falmer is too small. At least not at the moment. no one is suggesting that ground expension should be a high priority. All we want to know is;

Is it possible? Is it an option?

Or have we consigned ourselves to be also rans forever? Reading have a ground of 25,000. More than enough for that tin pot outfit and yet the stadium was built with expansion in mind. I want to that should we ever get to the Prem (and we will one day even if it is only briefly) and manage to sustain a good few years there. Well if Southampton/Pompey can do it we certainly can!

Then we will need a bigger ground to cope with the demand. I would suggest an absolute maximum of about 35,000 would be heaps. We're never going to need 40,000+ for example.

Is it possible?

Or should we all just rub our hands together and think, well 100 years of second flight football it is then.

 

[Lammy]

That said pay on the day makes a big difference and we won't see that again so who knows?

My understanding is that you can pay "ON THE DAY" you just can't "PAY ON THE GATE".

Am I wrong?

 

[perseus]

Come on, let's survive in this division first, shall we? After Saturday, that's not looking very likely. Unfortunately, I don't think that after playing the likes of Colchester, Scunthorpe, etc for a while we would even get 12,000, let alone over 20,000. As far as expansion goes, I think there is room in the corners to put in extra seats.

Look at the attendance charts and watch the fluctuations of the fickle south Londoners.

Look at the crucial moment in the Albion history when Cattlin's squad was given away (not sold). If there had been the play-offs and parachute payments, the dream could have continued.

They say in show biz you are selling a dream. For want of a few extra thousand seats, the dream could be rekindled.

The ticket arrangements are between the Council and the Albion.

I wish the Councillors would stop farting about with arbitary AONB lines and flint strewn wasteland (subsidised farming) and start backing local businesses and not put petty rules in the way.

 

[33057 Seagull]

Today, driving back from Kingston, took a detour around Falmer Village. Now I have never been there before (apart from The Swan years agos). More like a carpark if you ask me. Thousands of parking cones around the pond & nowhere to park as all the spaces were taken. Now I thought there would be loads of houses but you could count them on one hand. Not a single NIMBY to wind up so I left.

 

[perseus]

Today, driving back from Kingston, took a detour around Falmer Village. Now I have never been there before (apart from The Swan years agos). More like a carpark if you ask me. Thousands of parking cones around the pond & nowhere to park as all the spaces were taken. Now I thought there would be loads of houses but you could count them on one hand. Not a single NIMBY to wind up so I left.

How many other people have done this?

I have. I walked all over the ploughed up land. It was absolute shit, all strewn with flints. Then I went up to the brow of the hill VWS. The topgraphy of the land is such you cannot even see into the dip. The crap about the view is a load of shit as well.
It was bloody noisy as well with a continual stream of traffic although not nearly as much as I expected.

I went by train. Although the land is right next to the railway line, with the current arrangements it was a little bit of a walk, not as far as the Goldstone from Hove station, but it was snowing and I did not know the route.

To me it was obvious that when the Inspectors had a look at the land that permission would be given. The road route over the downs might snarl up a bit on match days, but I doubt if it will be any worse than a normal rush hour. Thats what most roads are like nowadays.

 

[H block]

If we ever got to the premiership our crowds would be so much bigger than the last time we made the top flight.Of course its a gradual rise picking up your core support as you become more successful but this time we would get many more for 3 reasons.
1: The fear of hooliganism is nothing compared to the 70,s and early 80,s when it was pretty scary at times at the Goldstone especially when the london clubs came down.
2: The ground was an absolute shithole where you could only get powdered tea, a burger that was quite ......... well hard to descibe really and toilets where woe betide you if you had a hole in the sole of your shoe.The north stand toilets where an inch under urine for most of the seventies.
3: The football is now so much better.Imagine players of the quality of Thiery Henri gracing Falmer.We never saw that quality last time around.

 

[Brixtaan]

Although the roof goes all the way around It looks like the corners are empty

This better not be true, i'm already unhappy with 23,000,it means we are confined to being the south coasts 3rd club forever.

 

[Rookie]

To be honest future attendance is not really a concern, get the thing built and then see what happens. The main thing i'm worried about is whether they go and do a Bolton and play music after goals, please no.