New Road 'car and pedestrian sharing' - does it work?

[Uter]

Correct ... incidentally, the city of Adelaide is famous for being a "cemetery with traffic lights".



... which brings me on to our own cemetery with traffic lights - Hove - and Uter's question about the pedestrian facilities at the junction of The Drive and Cromwell Road. I don't know the answer to this one. Apart from a bit of tinkering about with Trafalgar Road, Portslade, I only got involved in central Brighton schemes that pre-date 1997.

The mystery continues then which is a shame as I'd love to know why this is. If the intention was for pedestrians to only cross where the green man is available it has failed. Rather predictably people wanting to cross where the green man is not available just try to guestimate (yuk!) when it is safest to cross the one road rather than cross the 3 points governed by the pedestrian lights.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

On a personal note I prefered the older style trains with the guards van where you could put bikes but the powers that be decided more seats was the priority, In response to your suggestion of running more f**king trains maybe you'd like to tell me where you propose to turn these trains around seeing as terminus stations like Brighton & Victoria are running at full capacity as it is?

It's quite simple. Make more capacity. Either get smarter with the infrastructure we have or lay more rails if this is needed. I imagine the solution is somewhere in between though.

If motorways struggle for capacity we get more lanes, if airports need more capacity we get new terminals or runways. So, if the railways need more capacity lay more rails. If you can build Crossrail (albeit 20 odd years after its inception) you can build a another parallel track on the London to Brighton.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Well I do currently push a pram around on a regular basis an I actually appreciate the build outs, but I guess that's just me.

Useful for cast-iron bath tubs as well no doubt.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How ironic! We had the strategy mentioned above and I'm assuming the Germans didn't, we have the remnants of a car industry and poor public transport. The Germans have a strong car industry and a good public transport system!

Who were the real winners of the war eh?

 

[Brovion]

It's quite simple. Make more capacity. Either get smarter with the infrastructure we have or lay more rails if this is needed. I imagine the solution is somewhere in between though.

If motorways struggle for capacity we get more lanes, if airports need more capacity we get new terminals or runways. So, if the railways need more capacity lay more rails. If you can build Crossrail (albeit 20 odd years after its inception) you can build a another parallel track on the London to Brighton.

I agree with you! *SHOCK, HORROR!* They'd also rather spend millions straightening out Handcross Hill on the A23 as opposed to re-opening the railway between Uckfield and Lewes. A legacy I suppose of years of central government's anti-rail policy.

 

[British Bulldog]

It's quite simple. Make more capacity. Either get smarter with the infrastructure we have or lay more rails if this is needed. I imagine the solution is somewhere in between though.

If motorways struggle for capacity we get more lanes, if airports need more capacity we get new terminals or runways. So, if the railways need more capacity lay more rails. If you can build Crossrail (albeit 20 odd years after its inception) you can build a another parallel track on the London to Brighton.

Like i've said I'd love there to be a complete overhaul and increase in the rail infrastructure but until somebody is willing to invest the £billions to buy up the land, build the new lines and stations and upgrade the system we've allready got then we're stuck with the old railway network that we've had for years.

 

[The Oldman]

Back to cars v pedestrians in the Brighton area. We know that amazingly for a seaside city with all the winds and fresh air it has very bad air pollution, with the A23/A259 axis at the Aquarium, the London and Lewes roads, North Street, West Street and Clock Tower areas all contributing. Yet the traffic management in these areas has reduced traffic flow to a crawl with the consequent pumping out of fumes. The only answer has to be to ban private cars at peak times but provide large Park and Ride areas at Patcham/Waterhall, Shoreham and Peacehaven/Newhaven. The Nimbys who scuppered the P & R scheme at Patcham so the doggies could be exercised, should never have been allowed to win.

The other solution is to have a overhead monorail or an overground/underground rail system , one running East - West say from Newhaven to Shoreham but going through the City centre and a circular line linking RSCH, Marina, Palace Pier, King Alfred, Portslade, Mile Oak, Hangleton, Hove Park, Seven Dials, Brighton Station, Elm grove. A pipe dream maybe but when you look at the what similiar size conurbations elsewhere in the world have done we are way behind in public transport investment.

 

[Brovion]

Back to cars v pedestrians in the Brighton area. We know that amazingly for a seaside city with all the winds and fresh air it has very bad air pollution, with the A23/A259 axis at the Aquarium, the London and Lewes roads, North Street, West Street and Clock Tower areas all contributing. Yet the traffic management in these areas has reduced traffic flow to a crawl with the consequent pumping out of fumes. The only answer has to be to ban private cars at peak times but provide large Park and Ride areas at Patcham/Waterhall, Shoreham and Peacehaven/Newhaven. The Nimbys who scuppered the P & R scheme at Patcham so the doggies could be exercised, should never have been allowed to win.

.

Unsurprisingly I totally agree with you, all the half-baked schemes have made things worse. You've also put your finger on another problem ..... nimbys. The same unholy alliance of nimbys and ignorant Greens that tried to scupper Falmer will continue to hold this city back. That's why the only schemes that get approved are the timid ones that are designed to make the problem worse in the hope that it solves itself.

 

[Stoichkov]

The other solution is to have a overhead monorail or an overground/underground rail system , one running East - West say from Newhaven to Shoreham but going through the City centre and a circular line linking RSCH, Marina, Palace Pier, King Alfred, Portslade, Mile Oak, Hangleton, Hove Park, Seven Dials, Brighton Station, Elm grove. A pipe dream maybe but when you look at the what similiar size conurbations elsewhere in the world have done we are way behind in public transport investment.

In Lille (an unpretenious north French city) they started building theirs in the late 70's and it has run at a profit since 1989

A daily pass costs under £3 and a single costs about £1. When I used it, there was plentiful free car parking on the outskirts and and the fully automated trams came every 3-4 minutes. In the rush hour, some lines have one a minute. It took you from the outskirts right into the centre in about 7-10 minutes. It was so good, you'd probably never want to take you care into the City

Brighton spend millions of pounds on pedestrian schemes every year and traffic calming such as the examples at the Fiveways. Where though is the evidence that this is what the residents want? Where were all the pressure groups demanding new central reservations etc at the junction of Black Lion St?

The fact is there are none.

This stuff isn't high enough on peoples agendas. Cllrs's don't win seats through the 'new pavements' ticket. All the revenue from parking gets wasted on these 'easy to do' schemes which keep departments gainfully employed on not-too-taxing projects. I'd rather this money was pooled together even for 10-15 years and spent on something that would really make a difference. Of course this would mean some really bold decision making, strong political leadership and our highways department to deliver something other some new block paving and fat build-outs. I won't hold my breath...

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

In Lille (an unpretenious north French city) they started building theirs in the late 70's and it has run at a profit since 1989

A daily pass costs under £3 and a single costs about £1. When I used it, there was plentiful free car parking on the outskirts and and the fully automated trams came every 3-4 minutes. In the rush hour, some lines have one a minute. It took you from the outskirts right into the centre in about 7-10 minutes. It was so good, you'd probably never want to take you care into the City

Brighton spend millions of pounds on pedestrian schemes every year and traffic calming such as the examples at the Fiveways. Where though is the evidence that this is what the residents want? Where were all the pressure groups demanding new central reservations etc at the junction of Black Lion St?

The fact is there are none.

This stuff isn't high enough on peoples agendas. Cllrs's don't win seats through the 'new pavements' ticket. All the revenue from parking gets wasted on these 'easy to do' schemes which keep departments gainfully employed on not-too-taxing projects. I'd rather this money was pooled together even for 10-15 years and spent on something that would really make a difference. Of course this would mean some really bold decision making, strong political leadership and our highways department to deliver something other some new block paving and fat build-outs. I won't hold my breath...

Out of interest where did the funding come for the trams in Lille?
A few years back there were plans to install trams in Bristol and the Portsmouth Urban Area, but guess what? Central government withdrew funding for the projects.
Therein lies the problem in this country, successive governments do not have enough interest in expanding public transport to levels good enough to reduce the use of cars.

 

[Stoichkov]

Out of interest where did the funding come for the trams in Lille?

hmmm? Not sure although they are run at the moment by Transpole which is subsidery of a bigger private transport group.

I suppose that opens up the massive can of worms that is public money being spent on dedicated facilities (i.e bus lanes) from which private companys )eg Brighton & Hove buses) make a profit. Every bus lane, bus top build out etc makes their operation more efficient. Are they ever expected to make a contribution to the transport infrastructure?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of interest where did the funding come for the trams in Lille?
A few years back there were plans to install trams in Bristol and the Portsmouth Urban Area, but guess what? Central government withdrew funding for the projects.
Therein lies the problem in this country, successive governments do not have enough interest in expanding public transport to levels good enough to reduce the use of cars.

You can put the public at the root of the problem as well. Taxes would obviously need to go up but no one wants to pay mainland european levels of tax.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

You can put the public at the root of the problem as well. Taxes would obviously need to go up but no one wants to pay mainland european levels of tax.

Yes that maybe true, but what are mainland European levels of tax as compared to tax levels in this country?

Or perhaps we could fight a few less wars?

edit

Here is a link with tax rates throughout Europe, compare ours with Germany, a country with an excellent public transport system and the biggest country in Europe!

Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

everyone should have one of these:

...although you would have to watch out for the occasional person who runs out of fuel and plummets to the ground...

Hope I'm not too late to mock DRF's failure to differentiate between jet pack and drinks dispenser

 

[Mtoto]

The Nimbys who scuppered the P & R scheme at Patcham so the doggies could be exercised, should never have been allowed to win.

The allotment that I and my family cherish - since we don't have a garden living in central Brighton - would have been obliterated if the Patcham Park and Ride had gone ahead. Thus, I am delighted it did not. If that makes me a Nimby, so be it, but at least some of the land there is doing something productive, it's not just another place that dogs can crap on.

 

[The Oldman]

The allotment that I and my family cherish - since we don't have a garden living in central Brighton - would have been obliterated if the Patcham Park and Ride had gone ahead. Thus, I am delighted it did not. If that makes me a Nimby, so be it, but at least some of the land there is doing something productive, it's not just another place that dogs can crap on.

Mtoto, today looks very good weather for digging. Enjoy!

Unfortunately if we are going to improve the city's enviroment some tough decisions have to be made. Brighton is crying out for 3 or 4 P & R sites which would drastically reduce congestion and pollution if coupled with restrictions on car use. Yes, some peoples lives would be altered as a result of choosing the sites but overall the City's residents would enjoy a better quality of life.

 

[Notters]

On the subject of Five Ways, does anyone know why traffic going up Stanford Avenue isn't allowed to turn left into Preston Drove?

No, I wonder that every time I drive up there. There's nothing to stop you, I wonder if they're worried about people not seeing the red lights on the crossing immediately around the corner?