national strike

[Herr Tubthumper]

This would not be happening if Margaret Thatcher was still alive and running the country.

Er, she is still alive. Sadly.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I could have gone into the private sector with all the perks of higher wages, bonuses, private medical schemes and company cars but I chose to put something back into society.

It's strange, when people state that public sector works get great pensions ( and still will ) and that teachers get great holidays they get accused of incorrect facts. Well, as a private sector worker I get annoyed when public sector workers state we get all these perks. Well I hate to tell you 99% of us don't. Company cars are also heavily taxed so many people do not even see them as a perk anymore. What's a bonus ? Or a pay rise for that matter ? I've not had a pay rise for three years now and doubt I will get even the 1% public sector workers will get in the coming two years.

Private sector workers have had it extremely hard for the last 3 years - it looks like public sector workers will be for the next 3 - so let's not beat each other up as to who's having the hardest time ? For me, I'm just happy I've got a job ..................................... for now !

 

[narly101]

Er, no it didnt. I work in the pension industry. The A-day rule changes attempt to catch the top-enders with massive taxation on benefits, and further rules have since come in to prevent abuse of rules by this same group including further reductions in tax relief for earners over £100k. Of course footbalers and the like have since looked to dodgy Jersey type schemes to use offshore rules to get round these new curbs. This shouldnt have been possible as good old Gordon threatened the offshore havens with the wrath of god if they didnt pack it in. So far nothing has been done, so once again the same group get away with it and I have to get clients to complete even more pointless paperwork that only affects 0.1% of the populaton lucky enough to have the sort of pension funds you are thinking of.

As for the Public Sector. They have got to wake up - the current pension schemes are unaffordbale and have been for the last 30 years. Successive governments have known this and burried it. Blair got conviction politican Frank Field to come up with a solution. When he got the answers, Field was sidelined and recomendations ignored. This is an unfortunate place we are now in. Unions know the truth but they will fight it as that is their job. The pensions as they stand are unaffordable - do not beleive a word of the unions and the vodoo economics they troll out on TV. The defined benefit schemes do not work with the rising mortality rates and the type of inflation linked incomes they provide are unsupportable in low inflation/low interest rate economies ( which we have had in the last 15 odd years ) and the low funding rate they receive from members ( in real terms ). The maths dont add up, so successive governments have hidden the real future libailities off of the national debt figs as they have got bigger and bigger each year. This has to stop, and at last a government has got the bottle to do it. I just hope they see it through.

Probably the first well informed and succint post on this so far - I still have some way to trawl.

 

[paddy]

I'd love to see this nursery worker run her business without a public sector in place.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we abolish the public sector, nor is there any suggestion that public sector workers making increased pension contributions would do so. It's funny how those who seek to defend the status quo always resort to this kind of ridiculous hyperbole.

The point is simply that the difference in public sector pay and pension with that of hard-pressed private sector workers (who do comparable jobs, work just as hard and drive the economy to enable a public sector to exist) has become unsustainable in the current economic and social climate.

Furthermore, the vast majority of those in the private sector also need to send their children to nursery so they can go to work.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well you should join a Union then, and get them to fight your corner, as you are obviously incapable of doing so.

Unfortunately Unions is the private sector are very ineffective !!!!

http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/news/tvl-staff-at-bristol-hq-look-set-to-strike/

Many firms like Capita impose pay rises / cuts after "discussion" with the Unions but they are rarely at the level expected. Striking rarely works - ask the people at TVL or even the cabin crew at BA.

Rightly or wrongly I doubt the public sector strike is going to make much difference either.

 

[Gazwag]

I'm a public sector worker, a teacher, and will be on strike tomorrow and, I expect, again in the months to come. Our pension is a part of the pay and conditions we signed up to, not a charitable extra. If I work, paying my pension contributions and taxes, for forty years I will receive 50% of my £40,000 salary - by what distorted standards is this 'gold plated' luxury?

I'm sure there are millions of people in this country, me included, who would love to be on £40k per annum, nothing stopping you saving to boost your £20k pension, maybe your shouldn't qualify for the state pension as well to give the rest of us a bit more.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

So what you're effectively saying is that people in the public sector work harder that those in the private sector? Nobody disputes the effort and time that teachers other public sector workers put in, but to imply that private sector workers work less hard than those in the public sector is an outrageous generalisation. I could quite easily quote you back the example of a small business owner (who runs a nursery) who spends 16 hours a day, seven days a week to keep their business afloat and provide jobs for other people, whilst taking a salary which is around the minimum wage. Like the teacher, she spends hours both outside and inside work, to ensure that the children who leave her nursery have a proper start in life (indeed, research shows that the years a child is in a nursery are the most important).The owner doesn't have a pension yet pays huge amounts of tax for herself and those she employs, so those in the public sector can have a pension. What is fair about that?

If it wasn't for taxes funding free nursey places she wouldn't have a business, as there wouldn't be any customers.

 

[oldham gull]

Not sure these current strikers really know how to do it properly anyway. Top 3 strikes were the real deal! Falling With Style: 3 Strikes & You're Out!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we abolish the public sector, nor is there any suggestion that public sector workers making increased pension contributions would do so. It's funny how those who seek to defend the status quo always resort to this kind of ridiculous hyperbole.

The point is simply that the difference in public sector pay and pension with that of hard-pressed private sector workers (who do comparable jobs, work just as hard and drive the economy to enable a public sector to exist) has become unsustainable in the current economic and social climate.

Furthermore, the vast majority of those in the private sector also need to send their children to nursery so they can go to work.

I know no one is suggesting this. My point is that we should relish and all benefit from a well funded public sector. Paying them adequately enables them to recruit good candidates and provide this. The pension is part of this. As I have previously written I believe this is possible. And as previously stated I do not trust this government.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If it wasn't for taxes funding free nursey places she wouldn't have a business, as there wouldn't be any customers.

Good point, maybe Paddy can find a better example than this drain on our nations taxes

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Unfortunately Unions is the public sector are very ineffective !!!!

http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/news/tvl-staff-at-bristol-hq-look-set-to-strike/

Many firms like Capita impose pay rises / cuts after "discussion" with the Unions but they are rarely at the level expected. Striking rarely works - ask the people at TVL or even the cabin crew at BA.

Rightly or wrongly I doubt the public sector strike is going to make much difference either.

I'm not suggesting that striking is an effective negotiating stratgey, as it's the action of last resort when you feel negotiation has failed, but collective bargaining is much more effective than dealing with your employer on an individual basis.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If it wasn't for taxes funding free nursey places she wouldn't have a business, as there wouldn't be any customers.

It costs private nurseries more than the government pay them to provide those free places as it happens.

 

[sten_super]

Where did you get the fact from that the tax payer can't afford the pensions? Are you aware that the NHS pension and the Teachers pension where changed about 4/5 years ago or has that fact not sunk in because it doesn't suit your ill thought out arguments?

[MENTION=5208]drew[/MENTION], you've been going on about this affordability aspect. Do you accept that teachers (and NHS, and any other public sector fund you care to mention) pensions are not 'funded' in the sense that when my wife (who is a teacher) puts money into her pension scheme (and the employer adds its sizeable addition), it is not invested into an asset portfolio for her but is instead used to pay existing ex-public sector pensioners? Because if you accept that, then it becomes quickly obvious that the current system is extremely difficult to sustain - it is a Ponzi scheme by another name. They are funded in the sense that the current incomings exceed the outgoings - but if/when their outgoings increase (as current employees or our large public sector retire, and the old claimants do not die out as early) then there's absolutely no guarantee that this will continue to be the case - in fact it's entirely unlikely.

Incidentally, the Hutton report, while recommending that the public sector pension schemes had to be reformed for current members as well as new to reduce the burden on the taxpayer, it also carried a couple of often-brandished charts which showed public pensions liabilities falling long-term as a proportion of GDP. These are often used to back up the assertion that public sector pensions are 'affordable'. However, they are based on some rather heroic assumptions, not least of which is the expected growth in the UK economy (I think it's a 3% pa increase in GDP). It's also based on an increasing population being served by a public sector which does not expand in employee numbers - does anyone really think that's realistic?

 

[narly101]

I don't think anyone on here underestimates the ROLE of 65% of the public sector workers, stuff like the left-handed equalities officer or the bloated management positions in NHS can do one.

But, the facts are the taxpayer can not afford to continue to contribute at these levels to the Public Sector pension pot. Changes to Public Sector pensions should have been happening 10+ years ago when private sector pensions were changing, i.e. new entrants do not get final salary scheme etc.. but Labour did not want to upset the unions so backed away.

The global financial situation is being used as an opportunity to make much needed changes to the pension scheme, if smaller changes had been made years ago then the changes would not be as harsh as they seem now.

Wholeheartedly agree

 

[narly101]

I'm striking today to fight for a fair pension deal for teachers and public sector workers. I am sure many of you disagree with me for doing this and I would defend your democratic right to disagree to the hilt. I studied for four years at University to become a teacher. I could have gone into the private sector with all the perks of higher wages, bonuses, private medical schemes and company cars but I chose to put something back into society. All I ask is the government stick to the contract I have with them in terms of my pension that I started with in 1994 when I joined the profession. In my work there are no perks.

So you wouldn't call 12 weeks off a year, a "perk"?

 

[narly101]

Well you should join a Union then, and get them to fight your corner, as you are obviously incapable of doing so.

Alas nearly all Private Sector companies refuse to acknowledge Union's as is their right.

 

[gjh1971]

So you wouldn't call 12 weeks off a year, a "perk"?

So when do you think I do all my planning and preparation. Most of my holiday is spent preparing lessons, marking, writing schemes of work etc

 

[narly101]

It's strange, when people state that public sector works get great pensions ( and still will ) and that teachers get great holidays they get accused of incorrect facts. Well, as a private sector worker I get annoyed when public sector workers state we get all these perks. Well I hate to tell you 99% of us don't. Company cars are also heavily taxed so many people do not even see them as a perk anymore. What's a bonus ? Or a pay rise for that matter ? I've not had a pay rise for three years now and doubt I will get even the 1% public sector workers will get in the coming two years.

Private sector workers have had it extremely hard for the last 3 years - it looks like public sector workers will be for the next 3 - so let's not beat each other up as to who's having the hardest time ? For me, I'm just happy I've got a job ..................................... for now !

This

 

[Driver8]

The net cost to the taxpayer of public sector pensions for the next seven years is as follows according to the OBR:

5.6bn
8.4bn
9.9bn
10.5bn
11.6bn
12.5bn
13.5bn

Can anyone spot a trend here that may need addressing?

 

[gjh1971]

Surely you should be happy in the knowledge you are educating future generations? As you yourself said, you commendably said you joined the teaching profession to put something back into society and snubbed higher wages etc. Surely then perks don't worry you?

Oh, 10+ holiday a year IS a perk.

Im not saying perks do worry me, Im just making the point that other professions have perks my job doesnt.