Muslims need to chill the f*** out

[H block]

Sorry for questioning your views. Please don't thump me

If ever I needed a point made then you`ve just done it perfectly for me.

 

[London Irish]

So you let them carry on, with the example that because it would look racist to arrest them, they can get away with it?

Yes, that's exactly what we do. We prove that our system of free speech is better than the theocracy these fundamentalists want to create.

This message is then seen widely by immigrant communities in this country and they overwhelmingly will remain loyal to our greater liberal values and systems.

Can I tell you these people definitely won't get more recruits in their community? Of course I can't - while our foreign policy remains so dreadful, they will continue to recruit the confused and misguided. But criminalising them for demonstrating will increase their numbers ten- or a hundred-fold, just as Bush's idiotic attack on Iraq boosted Al Quada numbers by similar multiples.

Just as these idiot cartoonists and editors should not be subject to state repression for their tragically misguided form of expression, neither should these fanatics for holding up their hate banners.

The force of Enlightenment arguments and values must be brought to bear on both to prove our undoubted moral superiority. That can often take more courage and discipline than just hitting out and playing into their hands.

 

[London Irish]

If ever I needed a point made then you`ve just done it perfectly for me.

Well, I'm delighted for you.

 

[London Irish]

Hitler did not murder in the name of religion but in the pursuit of power.Totally different if he fought a war in the name of atheism.

Here are the words of the Austrian Catholic former alter boy himself, taken from Mein Kampf: ". . . I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

In a speech at Koblenz, August 26, 1934, Hitler said: "National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity . . . For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life . . . These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles!"

In 1941, he told one of his generals: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

One of his central reasonings for the extermination of the Jews was the "blood libel" - that Jews murdered Jesus Christ the Saviour.

Hitler's Germany had one of the highest church attendances in Europe, the population being almost either entirely Catholic or Lutheran.

From reading all the above, you can see how propaganda might lead you to take a dim view of Christianity's role in the Nazi terror.

Now have a think what role today's propagandists have in blackening the image of the Muslim religion. Have a think what intention was in the mind of that cartoonist as he depicted Mohammed as a terrorist.

H-Block makes excuses for the Nazi/Christian crossover. It was all about obtaining power and nothing to do with religion. He is actually right I think, Hitler just used Christianity as handy and convenient propaganda for his facist ideology. The real causes of the rise of Nazism were not the Bible but the mix of a dreadful social/economic situation and and a successful fascist political movement.

But apparantly the crimes committed in Islam's name are different.

This is not about muderous men seeking power and influence, the Koran is to blame.

I maintain this statement is as outrageous and as hypocritical as blaming Jesus for Hitler.

 

[coventrygull]

More utter weasel words from you. You said fascist scumbag Nick Griffin spoke "facts" about the Muslim religion, and when challenged about what exactly you meant by that, you once again changed your story. It's typically evasive behaviour of the mealy-mouthed Muslim hater always with a word of sympathy about how "misunderstood" these fascist scumbags are.

I have got to laught at you at your personal attacks on me. I am not a muslim hater but dislike their religion. I wouldn't hate someone just because of their religion.

For your information I am interested in OSHO, Buddhism and Gnosticism. I hope that dosen't make me a fascist

 

[H block]

Here are the words of the Austrian Catholic former alter boy himself, taken from Mein Kampf: ". . . I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

In a speech at Koblenz, August 26, 1934, Hitler said: "National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity . . . For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life . . . These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles!"

In 1941, he told one of his generals: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

One of his central reasonings for the extermination of the Jews was the "blood libel" - that Jews murdered Jesus Christ the Saviour.

Hitler's Germany had one of the highest church attendances in Europe, the population being almost either entirely Catholic or Lutheran.

From reading all the above, you can see how propaganda might lead you to take a dim view of Christianity's role in the Nazi terror.

Now have a think what role today's propagandists have in blackening the image of the Muslim religion. Have a think what intention was in the mind of that cartoonist as he depicted Mohammed as a terrorist.

H-Block makes excuses for the Nazi/Christian crossover. It was all about obtaining power and nothing to do with religion. He is actually right I think, Hitler just used Christianity as handy and convenient propaganda for his facist ideology. The real causes of the rise of Nazism were not the Bible but the mix of a dreadful social/economic situation and and a successful fascist political movement.

But apparantly the crimes committed in Islam's name are different.

This is not about muderous men seeking power and influence, the Koran is to blame.

I maintain this statement is as outrageous and as hypocritical as blaming Jesus for Hitler.

i have always found doing anything in the name of religion a proposterous theory and you have reiterated my point in accepting that hitler did not wage war and commit genocide for anything other than old fashion greed and power.he may have hid behind religion as so many people do. even our own wonderful politition do when it suit them but you have missed the point in stating that the koran is involved in this part of the arguement.The arguement you should raise is the interpretation that fundamentalists put on it.i have never condemned the state of Islam as i know most Moslems are good people but I am condemning extremism............................. wer`nt you trying to do that once.

 

[Sorrel]

I maintain this statement is as outrageous and as hypocritical as blaming Jesus for Hitler.

Of course this statement is absurd. But suggesting that christianity is one of the root causes of the holocaust is quite reasonable.

The catholic church in particular spent hundreds of years demonising, and belittling Jewish people: from the massacre at York, through the black death on into the twentieth century there is a clear thread of hatred to Jewish people running with the support of the church and many christians. This led to the atmosphere in which, as the book says, people in central and eastern Europe became "Hitler's Willing Executioners".

Back to current events: I agree that things should not be done to deliberately hurt the feelings of others. It's crass, uncaring and (obviously on this board) appears to some as bigoted.

However, if you give in to something because it offends someone's religious views - when do you stop? I'm sure that many muslims are offended by homosexuality: should we close down Old Compton Street in case any muslims may be offended? Where do you draw the line?

I think all religions are false, and therefore I think Islam is a false religion, and that Mohammed was a liar. This is no doubt offensive to many Muslims. Should these views never reach print, in case Muslims are offended?

 

[DJ Leon]

Is it OK for me to say that Christianity has a problem because it murdered six million Jews?

Yes.

Any atrocity done in the name of God should reflect on the religion that committed it.

In terms of current times - Christianity should assert itself to prevent the way that it views the world and especially how America acts.

Islam should assert the tenets of peace and tolerance that it's holy book actually espouses.

The root of all evil, Mr Dawkins? I'm inclined to agree.

 

[DJ Leon]

Of course this statement is absurd. But suggesting that christianity is one of the root causes of the holocaust is quite reasonable.

The catholic church in particular spent hundreds of years demonising, and belittling Jewish people: from the massacre at York, through the black death on into the twentieth century there is a clear thread of hatred to Jewish people running with the support of the church and many christians. This led to the atmosphere in which, as the book says, people in central and eastern Europe became "Hitler's Willing Executioners".

Back to current events: I agree that things should not be done to deliberately hurt the feelings of others. It's crass, uncaring and (obviously on this board) appears to some as bigoted.

However, if you give in to something because it offends someone's religious views - when do you stop? I'm sure that many muslims are offended by homosexuality: should we close down Old Compton Street in case any muslims may be offended? Where do you draw the line?

I think all religions are false, and therefore I think Islam is a false religion, and that Mohammed was a liar. This is no doubt offensive to many Muslims. Should these views never reach print, in case Muslims are offended?

Good post. This is exactly how I feel at the moment.

 

[Mr Burns]

If ever I needed a point made then you`ve just done it perfectly for me.

Yes he doesn't like it when you make a vaild point. He goes all childish.

 

[Mr Burns]

Ah yes, you commented on the weather, said "Jap" immigrants spoiled New Zealand, said Hitler's Nazi holocaust was proof that races couldn't live together and then called Asians "a plague".

Not surprised you've turned up on this thread to add support to your racist mates

Twat. i said there were thousands of Japs in Auckland, not that they spoilt New Zealand. New Zealands a big place, it'll be very hard for any thing to spoil it really. I still believe races, or more to the point, certain religions dont mix, and can't live together. And what you said about Asians being 'a plague', it was a throw away comment, as you well know, but something you latched onto.
As I said I think your a twat. Thats just my opinion. Whenever theres a thread about this you take up a lot more posts than anyone. And as I've said before, if people can be bothered to read through these whole threads and see the way you conduct yourself, playing with words and belittling people, and not answering key points when someone makes a vaild point without calling them scum and BNP racist pondlife, I think many will agree, that you are a twat.

 

[London Irish]

Twat. i said there were thousands of Japs in Auckland, not that they spoilt New Zealand. New Zealands a big place, it'll be very hard for any thing to spoil it really. I still believe races, or more to the point, certain religions dont mix, and can't live together. And what you said about Asians being 'a plague', it was a throw away comment, as you well know, but something you latched onto.
As I said I think your a twat. Thats just my opinion. Whenever theres a thread about this you take up a lot more posts than anyone. And as I've said before, if people can be bothered to read through these whole threads and see the way you conduct yourself, playing with words and belittling people, and not answering key points when someone makes a vaild point without calling them scum and BNP racist pondlife, I think many will agree, that you are a twat.

Got it. I'm a twat

As you're feeling so sorry for youself, racist, I'll go easy and won't bother to dig out your direct quote about Japs and Asians spoiling Auckland/New Zealand. Probably will later though

 

[Franks Wild Years]

I thinks its so funny that people who think it's ok to refer to another race a plague and are quite happy to support a political party who's policies are based on hate etc get so upset when they are slightly insulted. I never realised that the far right were such sensitive souls.

 

[Mr Burns]

Got it. I'm a twat

As you're feeling so sorry for youself, racist, I'll go easy and won't bother to dig out your direct quote about Japs and Asians spoiling Auckland/New Zealand. Probably will later though

Go for it. I'll repeat it here to save you the time, although clearly you dont have much better to do with your time. I said when you go to a foriegn country ie New Zealand, and there appears to be more immagrants or foriegn people, than the locals, than in my opinion it spoils the place. As a world traveller I dont go to Japan to see the New Zealand way of life. I go to New Zealand. Same as when I go to Thailand and the main centers are full of English/Europeans larger louts or sex tourists, I avoid those areas, as someone who wants to learn other cultures it gives a force view of the country, therefore in my opinion spolis the area.

But Because I used an Asian race as an example in a previous thread, London Irish, who I consider a bullyboy twat, seems to have picked up on that an call me a racist. But I think the English spoil certains areas of Asia as I said above, and Europeans have certainkly f***ed up South Afirca. I dont dislike any of the races, otherwise I wouldn't be in their country.

Does that mean that i believe races/faiths shouldn't mix at all.

Absolutely not, otherwise I'd be a pratt for travelling aboard so much. I just think you should go to a foreign country to live, you should do it for the right reasons, and not because its a soft opition. If I was a muslim living in the west, and I hated the west so much I went on marches to protest against what they did, wouldn't stay here, I'd go back to a Muslim country. I dont think thats a racist view, I think its common sense.

 

[Gerbil]

Nice to see some carefully considered words of moderation from the muslims of London:

These people are f***ing idiotic scum.

If I stood outside the Pakistani embassy holding provocative placards I would be arrested.Were any of these people arrested?

No I thought not

 

[Mr Burns]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Duncan H
Nice to see some carefully considered words of moderation from the muslims of London:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by London Irish
And in blaming all London muslims for a few fanatics, you really are showing exemplary "moderation" yourself, aren't you?

Looks like a good few hundred, if not thousands to me.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

There's a Muslim on BBC Radio 5 Live who contends that Muslims should have freedom of speech, but we should be more considered about ours, and that Muslims have the right to react as they see fit, whether that is outside or inside the law! He is not doing very well on there at the moment, and the presenter is drawing him into every cul-de-sac around. Almost got him to admit that he thinks that the cartoonist should be beheaded!

And if you take the mickey out of Jews in a political context in cartoons, it's OK!

 

[Mr Burns]

And in blaming all London muslims for a few fanatics, you really are showing exemplary "moderation" yourself, aren't you?

Oh look a few more fanatics abiet not London ones:-

From the BBC

Syrians have set fire to the Norwegian and Danish embassies in Damascus to protest at the publication of newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
Protesters stormed the Danish site amid chants of "God is great", before moving on to attack the Norwegian mission.

Police fired tear gas to try to disperse crowds at the second site, but protesters broke in and set it ablaze.

 

[London Calling]

Go for it. I'll repeat it here to save you the time, although clearly you dont have much better to do with your time. I said when you go to a foriegn country ie New Zealand, and there appears to be more immagrants or foriegn people, than the locals, than in my opinion it spoils the place. As a world traveller I dont go to Japan to see the New Zealand way of life. I go to New Zealand. Same as when I go to Thailand and the main centers are full of English/Europeans larger louts or sex tourists, I avoid those areas, as someone who wants to learn other cultures it gives a force view of the country, therefore in my opinion spolis the area.

But Because I used an Asian race as an example in a previous thread, London Irish, who I consider a bullyboy twat, seems to have picked up on that an call me a racist. But I think the English spoil certains areas of Asia as I said above, and Europeans have certainkly f***ed up South Afirca. I dont dislike any of the races, otherwise I wouldn't be in their country.

Does that mean that i believe races/faiths shouldn't mix at all.

Absolutely not, otherwise I'd be a pratt for travelling aboard so much. I just think you should go to a foreign country to live, you should do it for the right reasons, and not because its a soft opition. If I was a muslim living in the west, and I hated the west so much I went on marches to protest against what they did, wouldn't stay here, I'd go back to a Muslim country. I dont think thats a racist view, I think its common sense.

Just a couple of points.

I was talking to a NZ lander recently just b4 he went back there, I queried why he was returning. Considering he loved the range of ethnic foods and culture in London.

But he said, "we've got it all, we have the largest ethnic population in the world. Its got a great young people atmoshere."

Another point. But what were you looking for in Nz. The dominant population should be the Maori's not british or Greeks?

LC

 

[enigma]

These people are f***ing idiotic scum.

If I stood outside the Pakistani embassy holding provocative placards I would be arrested.Were any of these people arrested?

No I thought not

Agreed.

Much as I think the cartoons were out of order, that is no way to react, and makes me feel very angry indeed.

I really dont think all Muslims are terrorists, but those idiots with the placards havent done the cause any favours.