MOUTH - The latest

[Captain Haddock]

I'd love to see the reaction, for example, if Leicester fans sang town full of faggots to us and Brighton replied with town full of 'pakis' - I know which one would get the most attention from stewards / police!

....and indeed the media!

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Should this thread be merged with the BAN Richard Hebbard thread, they both have nearly 10,000 views.

The club should nor remain silent from this and perhaps make a response showing the evidence they have for banning certain fans that seems to have caused concern across a wide spectrum of posters.

Is it worth someone condensing these threads into an 'Ask The Club' to ask why they have taken certain actions and how they review and control he fans on match days.

 

[Dover]

An interesting set of posts and opinions.

I personally have moved to the front of H block, as I have found some of the stewarding intimidatory, and often felt six pairs of eyes pointing in my direction. The best being when I had enough and moved to G block. My mates there noted some of the stewards were looking for me, and then once found I was pointed out and two stewards moved towards my direction.

Now I'm no saint, and my language can be a little passionate, and this was a season or so ago, but did I deserve that? Possibly not. Now I have moved, the eyes are not so trained in my direction.

Also football audiences have changed. People expect more, but the also expect respect.

 

[The Oldman]

Should this thread be merged with the BAN Richard Hebbard thread, they both have nearly 10,000 views.

The club should nor remain silent from this and perhaps make a response showing the evidence they have for banning certain fans that seems to have caused concern across a wide spectrum of posters.

Is it worth someone condensing these threads into an 'Ask The Club' to ask why they have taken certain actions and how they review and control he fans on match days.

I am not sure that the CEO will take much notice of what is posted here. At the Fans Forum I seem to recall that he said he does not take any notice of what is posted on the web.

 

[Richy_Seagull]

Should this thread be merged with the BAN Richard Hebbard thread, they both have nearly 10,000 views.

The club should nor remain silent from this and perhaps make a response showing the evidence they have for banning certain fans that seems to have caused concern across a wide spectrum of posters.

Is it worth someone condensing these threads into an 'Ask The Club' to ask why they have taken certain actions and how they review and control he fans on match days.

All Insider will do is repeat the stance of the club on standing and swearing bla bla bla, as that is, to be fair, all he can say.

I sent an email at the end of last season and didn't receive any reply and others had the same so it just seems that Ken Brown et all are just going to ignore it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It seems to me that we don't need a new supporters club at all. Just some stewards who act consistently and fairly across the entire ground, not picking on easy targets and acting like little Hitlers.

Only been to cricket a couple of times, but each time I've been pleasantly surprised that the stewards actively welcome you as a guest into the ground and are uniformally polite and non-aggressive. Seeing as how the Albion are primarily a family club, I don't think its too much to ask that the stewards act accordingly. Or if they're going to act like crap nightclub doormen then they have the bottle to do it to the likes of Leeds and Millwall, rather than act out their pumped-up fantasies and practice on-the-job steward training on the away end when there's only a small travelling support or on selected non-threatening Albion fans. It's a bit of a disgrace really and it needs addressing by the club.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

An interesting set of posts and opinions.

I personally have moved to the front of H block, as I have found some of the stewarding intimidatory, and often felt six pairs of eyes pointing in my direction. The best being when I had enough and moved to G block. My mates there noted some of the stewards were looking for me, and then once found I was pointed out and two stewards moved towards my direction.

Now I'm no saint, and my language can be a little passionate, and this was a season or so ago, but did I deserve that? Possibly not. Now I have moved, the eyes are not so trained in my direction.

Also football audiences have changed. People expect more, but the also expect respect.

Flippin heck - what were you shouting to draw that amount of attention.

I've always thought that the stewards were a bit ott and unless there is an obvious problem think they should be visible but not looking to eject people.
The standing issue is a big problem as the reason they want you to sit is so you are easier to control and identify. Now I get this with season ticket holders as the seat gives the home address but when they make away supporters sit down its just about the power. You can normally get 10-20 rowdey away fans to comply even if it means throwing 1 or 2 out but that wont work with 2000 seasoned away fans at withdean let alone falmer.

What does make me laugh is the people on here that think that falmer will bring back the terrace of the goldstone. its going to be great but I bet the stewarding of our fans will be stricter than withdean and if withdean is anything to go by expect to be ejected for gestures, swearing, standing stc there too. Don't forget that with a cashless system they will know all about you!

 

[CAPTAIN GREALISH]

this is proof there is something wrong at withdean . whywhen someone trys to get some sort of atmosphere going he is looked at as if you are in the wrong. no wonder most people i talk to would rather go to away games

 

[Chicken Runner61]

this is proof there is something wrong at withdean . whywhen someone trys to get some sort of atmosphere going he is looked at as if you are in the wrong. no wonder most people i talk to would rather go to away games

Yes but you can get away with more at away games and lets be honest the best atmosphere is the one with an edge in the air and lots of chants and singing normally involving a bit of abuse at the opposition. People sing and chant better standing up and when people are with lots of mates they are always more lairy.

i'm sure the club would much prefer we all just clapped when we scored rather than cheer and have a mental - its alot easier to police!

 

[Captain Haddock]

An interesting set of posts and opinions.

I personally have moved to the front of H block, as I have found some of the stewarding intimidatory, and often felt six pairs of eyes pointing in my direction. The best being when I had enough and moved to G block. My mates there noted some of the stewards were looking for me, and then once found I was pointed out and two stewards moved towards my direction.

Now I'm no saint, and my language can be a little passionate, and this was a season or so ago, but did I deserve that? Possibly not. Now I have moved, the eyes are not so trained in my direction.

Also football audiences have changed. People expect more, but the also expect respect.

Yes you were a 'marked man' that day, weren't you, Dover??!!

It really has been like being back at school, attending games a The Theatre of Trees these past few years.

Maybe Mr Meathead & chums would like to start throwing chalk dusters at us and serving detention notices?!

 

[Dandyman]

Why do you care?

If you think they are posing, then sneer to your heart's content and move on - nothing to see here.

I mean ffs, quit being so precious!

I care because I am a supporter and a "customer". What message do you think they are sending by dressing like that ? To me it suggests that they have minimal interest in anyone's safety or security and are seeking to act and dress in a confrontational fashion for no legitimate reason.

In what other industry does a business actually try and piss off their customers and why do feel you have any right to insult those customers rather than provide a grown up response?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Dandyman is right - one of the Units that they have to complete to get the NVQ or the BTEC in Stewarding is a customer service one! The club should know better than to dress them in clothes which are likely to provoke an incident. The response or extraction teams are generally those who fancy themselves as "specialists", but actually tend to be "special needs" - and quite often they are the most unsuitable people for the job. And also tend to be nowhere to be seen when they are needed, rather than picking on people under 16 or over 50. As we know, they are not going to wade in to the Millwall or Leeds fans dressed like that because they would get lynched.

There are rules that need to be followed, but consistency and openness is the keyword.

You are the customers, they are the employees of the club. Dressing like rejects from an EDL march just marks them out as wannabe paramilitary. If they are that keen on marching around in combats, then get on the next plane out of Brize Norton!

 

[KneeOn]

Dandyman is right - one of the Units that they have to complete to get the NVQ or the BTEC in Stewarding is a customer service one! The club should know better than to dress them in clothes which are likely to provoke an incident. The response or extraction teams are generally those who fancy themselves as "specialists", but actually tend to be "special needs" - and quite often they are the most unsuitable people for the job. And also tend to be nowhere to be seen when they are needed, rather than picking on people under 16 or over 50. As we know, they are not going to wade in to the Millwall or Leeds fans dressed like that because they would get lynched.

There are rules that need to be followed, but consistency and openness is the keyword.

You are the customers, they are the employees of the club. Dressing like rejects from an EDL march just marks them out as wannabe paramilitary. If they are that keen on marching around in combats, then get on the next plane out of Brize Norton!

You are a steward at St Marys? Or you have some kind of stewarding (your picture with all the weapons from training i seem to remember)

Have you ever done Stewarding at the Albion?

Another former steward posted on here saying how it is near impossible to judge who is saying what from track side? if you have done withdean stewarding did you also find this the case?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I train stewards and security staff for football, music and all other types of spectator events and venues. I also train the Physical Intervention and conflict management aspects, also in Self Defence, etc, etc.

It's not impossible to know who causes problems if you have it set up right - intelligence teams, liaison with local police, etc. You are also not aiming to escalate issues - you need to calm them down, and eyeballing people, standing in groups and pointing is not the way ahead. The crowd should actually be a resource that you can use if you know how to read them properly. A little bit of human psychology, especially group reactions, goes a long way.

You don't even need the response teams loitering with intent - and especially not dressed like that. If you have a high-category game, then yes. Low category, use them as stewards and bring them together if you need to respond. Keep them out of the way, especially if you see the crowd reacting badly to a bunch of paramilitary wannabes.

If you have a problem with stewards, then nine times out of ten you need to get rid of the ones who have formed little "groups" and retrain people. Age and gender ranges need to be considered. It takes us over a week to even get someone to be capable of standing in a ground and carrying out the most basic of jobs - and even then they are supervised by someone who holds the NVQ2 in Spectator Safety.

Whilst some people on here are correct in stating that the FA Rules say that people should be sat down, etc, etc, there is some leeway. However, the worst thing you can do is to treat people in a different way for no apparent reason - and it's suicide if it is perceived that you leave the people alone that you are scared of and focus on the ones that are easy to bully.

Stewards need to remember that they are there for safety reasons and for customer service reasons, not to fulfill little fantasies about being "snatch squads" or ninja-security staff.

I have worked club doors and major sporting and music events as steward, supervisor and extraction team member and leader and now I train people to do the jobs. Awareness of situation and conflict management skills are essential, humour and a relationship with the customers. If you can't manage that, then Lidl always need door security staff.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

So if this Mr Mouth person was removed for loud, abusive language, why hasn't a prominent supporter been removed every game he has been to for the last 9 years seeing as he uses frequent (and seemingly all) expletives and likes referring to Brighton players who give the ball away as "faggots" from time to time? In an extremely loud manner. And this is just one of many such people that I hear in my immediate vicinity which is close to the front so easily heard by many stewards - response or not. And why was the culprit shouting about banana boats not ejected when I saw the reaction of a steward and know for certain they heard it? And why were the three Orient fans singing the usual homophobic diatribe on Wednesday not removed as I heard it from 50 yards away?

NMH can blather all he wants but the simple concern that people with moderate views towards stewards have is the complete lack of any kind of consistency. And then when they do decide, for whatever random reason, to make an example, they don't just move in and remove said culprit but gather, point, posture, point, gather some more, point some more, talk into walkie talkies, point some more and then think about doing something. Which by then has inflamed several hundred more supporters. Because to my untrained eye, that seems to be inciting a crowd rather than protecting it which is their ultimate responsibility.

I used to work with one of the stewards at Eastbourne Borough and the way he strides around in his Raybans sums up the problem for me. There are a small minority of stewards who have a bouncer type mentality. 'Diss' them and get ejected. Shout about banana boats or faggots and you'll be fine as long as you don't look at them funny.

 

[KneeOn]

I train stewards and security staff for football, music and all other types of spectator events and venues. I also train the Physical Intervention and conflict management aspects, also in Self Defence, etc, etc.

It's not impossible to know who causes problems if you have it set up right - intelligence teams, liaison with local police, etc. You are also not aiming to escalate issues - you need to calm them down, and eyeballing people, standing in groups and pointing is not the way ahead. The crowd should actually be a resource that you can use if you know how to read them properly. A little bit of human psychology, especially group reactions, goes a long way.

You don't even need the response teams loitering with intent - and especially not dressed like that. If you have a high-category game, then yes. Low category, use them as stewards and bring them together if you need to respond. Keep them out of the way, especially if you see the crowd reacting badly to a bunch of paramilitary wannabes.

If you have a problem with stewards, then nine times out of ten you need to get rid of the ones who have formed little "groups" and retrain people. Age and gender ranges need to be considered. It takes us over a week to even get someone to be capable of standing in a ground and carrying out the most basic of jobs - and even then they are supervised by someone who holds the NVQ2 in Spectator Safety.

Whilst some people on here are correct in stating that the FA Rules say that people should be sat down, etc, etc, there is some leeway. However, the worst thing you can do is to treat people in a different way for no apparent reason - and it's suicide if it is perceived that you leave the people alone that you are scared of and focus on the ones that are easy to bully.

Stewards need to remember that they are there for safety reasons and for customer service reasons, not to fulfill little fantasies about being "snatch squads" or ninja-security staff.

I have worked club doors and major sporting and music events as steward, supervisor and extraction team member and leader and now I train people to do the jobs. Awareness of situation and conflict management skills are essential, humour and a relationship with the customers. If you can't manage that, then Lidl always need door security staff.

If the club only would listen...

Were you at the game? (Hampshire isn't too far but is far away... So i can imagine both senarios)

If you were what would you say the stewards response was like?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Not there - I work elsewhere on Saturdays for my sins!

However, in the event of someone having a foul mouth my immediate reaction would be to send one of my older stewards in to ask him to stop it. Play on the psychology side of things "My supervisor is giving me grief about you, he says that I am going to have to ask you to leave, and I don't want to do that, I know it's exciting, etc, etc, but can you tone it down please?" If he fails, send up a pair (no looking, pointing, discussing, etc). A bit more firm - "Mate, we have asked you and he is getting really stroppy with us now. You are going to have to stop this." If that fails, the Supervisor goes up, gives him a formal "stop it or you are gone" warning. Three strikes taken, next one is out. Make sure that people around him are aware that he has been given the chances, then they can see that it is all being done fairly. Three man team, plus a video guy (always, always, always video extractions for legal purposes!) and he is quickly and quietly lifted and escorted to the nearest exit. No fuss, no excessive force, just locking his arms, keeping him slightly off balance and moving him forward.

If others are swearing, then address all of them, but none of them (by general gesturing towards them, come on lads, women and children, etc, etc). It normally works. Failing that, with a big group then point out that they are being videoed and unless they change their behaviour they will be issued with short term banning orders. You can always focus on a couple of ring leaders to extract if you need to, which tends to disencourage the others!

It's not difficult, seriously. If we can do this in crowds of 100K, then it's doable at any venue. Throwing people out is the last resort and we class it as a failure. If you cannot use interpersonal skills, then the person has either got a desire to be confrontational or is not able to modify their behaviour.

Over the next year I will be training over 200 brand new stewards for various events to BTEC Level 2 standards, plus carrying out refresher and upgrade training for about 200 more. I think I must have a fairly good idea of what I am doing....

 

[Uncle Buck]

So if this Mr Mouth person was removed for loud, abusive language, why hasn't from the A21 club been removed every game he has been to for the last 9 years seeing as he uses frequent (and seemingly all) expletives and likes referring to Brighton players who give the ball away as "faggots" from time to time? In an extremely loud manner. And this is just one of many such people that I hear in my immediate vicinity which is close to the front so easily heard by many stewards - response or not. And why was the culprit shouting about banana boats not ejected when I saw the reaction of a steward and know for certain they heard it? And why were the three Orient fans singing the usual homophobic diatribe on Wednesday not removed as I heard it from 50 yards away?

NMH can blather all he wants but the simple concern that people with moderate views towards stewards have is the complete lack of any kind of consistency. And then when they do decide, for whatever random reason, to make an example, they don't just move in and remove said culprit but gather, point, posture, point, gather some more, point some more, talk into walkie talkies, point some more and then think about doing something. Which by then has inflamed several hundred more supporters. Because to my untrained eye, that seems to be inciting a crowd rather than protecting it which is their ultimate responsibility.

I used to work with one of the stewards at Eastbourne Borough and the way he strides around in his Raybans sums up the problem for me. There are a small minority of stewards who have a bouncer type mentality. 'Diss' them and get ejected. Shout about banana boats or faggots and you'll be fine as long as you don't look at them funny.

Am sure that the person quoted will be really pleased to have his name used on this thread.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

Am sure that Stuart will be really pleased to have his name used on this thread.

He was only named because he is the only one of the many such people I know the name of. But frankly I fail to believe that anything this mouth character has said is anything worse than D Block endures every game. I mean faggot? Really? In 2010? I'm certainly not offended but the fact that stewards hear this week in week out makes the randomness of their recent actions all the more strange (or personal).

 

[Uncle Buck]

He was only named because he is the only one of the many such people I know the name of. But frankly I fail to believe that anything this mouth character has said is anything worse than D Block endures every game. I mean faggot? Really? In 2010? I'm certainly not offended but the fact that stewards hear this week in week out makes the randomness of their recent actions all the more strange (or personal).

I understand the point that you are trying to make but you should not really name people.