McGhee - Who cares what NSC thinks?

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

The REAL voice of the fans is Ernest

 

[Eggman]

Brilliant lets all BOOOOOOO

I cant wait, it will be so good and then we can all suck Kinkys dick cos he was proved right. Hurrah!

 

[Ernest]

The REAL voice of the fans is Ernest

No MY ARS is the true voice

 

[London Irish]

I on the other hand do not like it and am frankly getting very irritated with Rougvie's reactionist huffing and puffing. He thinks he speaks for the "mid Sussex" majority? Please.
I notice his avatar is no longer himself with MM. How quickly they turn..

That's right - his avatar used to be him with his arm around McGhee didn't it?

There's nothing like loyalty is there?

 

[Wardy]

I'm just going to post my opinions from yesterdays McGhee thread. Made some changes (you may need to go for a cup of tea halfway through) but it sets out my thoughts and feelings on the whole matter. :egotripping:

Let's face it, there are people who have never had much time for McGhee since the day he took over and have never warmed to him. All the success that he has led us too has been celebrated through gritted teeth and now we've had a bad performance the knives have been gleefully unleashed. Whether this was down to his acrimonious departures from Reading & Leicester, or his (deserved in my eyes) reputation for making strange team selections, I don't know. I would use as exhibit A the post by Goring Gull in early 2004 that was resurrected by Albion Dan. That was a call for McGhee’s head in a season where we won promotion, so he sure as shit isn’t going to get praise in a relegation battle from those quarters.

On reflection I think that the 2003/2004 season may be the source of disgruntlement with McGhee. Yes, we won promotion that season in spectacular fashion, but only after some pretty dire stuff at times in the league. McGhee himself admitted that the tactics used to gain promotion weren’t pretty, but they were what he considered to be the best ones to use with the players at his disposal. Given the position that Coppell left us in, some fans have never really accepted that explanation, instead believing that we would have walked the division with a more adventurous manager. Maybe there’s also the issue of his sometimes public criticisms of players, coupled with his team selections and sticking with tactics that don’t seem to be working, that add to his unpopularity.

I get the feeling that the most enthusiastic support for McGhee comes from those derided as “scarfers”, “shirts” or “bobblers”. Something, or someone, who is a favorite of the supporting “establishment” is never going to be too popular with those who consider themselves to be the more independent supporter. I can’t imagine that the “drinking pints of whiskey” song is too popular in these quarters. It is strange that McGhee has never really recovered the popularity he had when he was Reading manager. His messy departure from Elm Park saw him labelled as a “judas” and his subsequent stints at Leicester and Wolves did nothing to turn around that reputation. Even at Millwall, where he won Division 2 and took the ‘Wall to the play-offs to enter the Premiership, I doubt he was ever truly accepted by the whole support. They turned on him pretty quickly when they were in better form than we are now.

3 wins out of 30 ain't good, that's for damn sure, but neither is say 5 wins out of 30. Yet if we had turned 2 draws this season (Leeds and Leicester away for example) or we win 2 games over the next 4 weeks, we would have 20 points and currently be 16th in the table. Would there be so much "McGhee OUT" stuff then? What is an acceptable win/draw/lose ratio for a small club like ours in this division? What standards had people set for us at this stage of the season? I’m asking this as a genuine question here. I set a target of 16th or 17th that I’d like to see us achieve this season, a target that is still very much achievable. Could we attain that target without having any bumpy bits along the way? I think it’s highly unlikely, so therefore I expected there to be rough patches this season. Were others expecting/demanding a much higher finish than mine? Did people not anticipate that we would very probably be involved in the relegation scrap at various points this season?

I think there's also a fair amount of NSP-style "let's wind up the geeks and nerds on NSC" japery behind the current upsurge in anti Mark McGhee stuff on here of late. There certainly wasn't this amount of stuff after we put in two shit performances vs Norwich and Cardiff at home. I don't really see how a standard shit Stoke performance can be viewed as a camel breaking straw. People know that they can wind up the more "excitable" members of this board by slagging off McGhee, who's often held in awe by certain posters as an untouchable subject, beyond reproach. By dropping these grenades you can gain a lot of amusing OTT reactions. The only other subject that is guaranteed to generate such emotional responses is slagging off Dick Knight. Given recent events I think that he is currently not a viable target even for a wind-up, give it a few months though and I’m sure he’ll be “back on the menu”.

McGhee is not some a genius nor is he the worst manager we've ever had. He's a competent football manager who led us to promotion and maintained that improved standing last season. For me personally, his credit is good. I think that the team is more attractive (not that way ducky) than it was last season and that we create more opportunities than we did last season. This change was something that was begun last year with the purchase of Darren Currie and has only come back with the acquisition of Carole and Frutos. This was part of the gradual evolution of the team and the way we play that has been set out by McGhee in many interviews. Now we need to work on taking those opportunities up. This can be done by trying to encourage the front players to get into the opposition penalty box more, rather than drift out wide as Knight and CKR do. Either our current players do this, or we get someone in on loan or in the transfer window who can. It's not an impossible task. I don't know if Turienzo (or Richards for that matter) will come good but I do think that dismissing both of them after about 3 months of the season is a little premature in my opinion.

He does make strange tactical choices. Some of them don't work (Mayo in midfield anyone?" but some of them do. One of the strangest tactical moves i've ever seen watching the Albion was putting a right back/central defender who couldn't distribute the ball well up front. What a success that was though. He was turned into our top scorer and we got 1.5 million quid for him in one of the biggest transfer coups we've ever had. I say that we miss Virgo's physical strength up front and we currently only MacCammon could perform that role, though it remains to be seen if Turienzo could do that role.

I don't think he properly replaced Dan Harding this summer. It's my opinion that Harding would have made a big difference this season if he had stayed. He's starting to fit in up at Leeds and I do think that he was improving with every game at the back end of last season. That said, we probably needed the money from his and Virgo's sale this summer more than we needed the players. That's another indication of the restrictions that McGhee, or any potential replacement, would have to operate under.

To some extent I believe that some of the critics are expressing genuine concerns that need to be dealt with. Where I, and some others, deviate from the critics is that I believe that McGhee will sort out some of these weaknesses. Some people don't think that he will, well that's fine by me. This internet message board exisists to give a voice to ALL fans, there's always going to be people posting stuff that you think is bullshit but I wouldn't say that it's "treacherous".
I hope that this bickering and the gradual replacement of decent discussions over team matters with insults on here isn't replicated in the real world. Sadly, if reports from Stoke are correct, it appears that they are. Getting right up into someones face and "offering them out" just because they have a different opinion on team selection ain't on. There's a bloke who sits behind me at Withdean who always slags off Oatway, but I wouldn't dream of threatening him because I don't share that opinion. If someone wants to shout something out about McGhee, f*** it let 'em.

Let it go is what I say, i'm sure McGhee and the players are big enough and ugly enough to shrug it off. They've probably heard similar stuff everywhere they've been. It happens at every club that's in our position. Coventry fans slag off Mickey Adams, Hull fans are none too pleased with Peter Taylor, Phil Brown at Derby doesn't have much support. Christ, look at Nigel Worthington at Norwich. Last year he was the hero, hell he still was in September, yet now there's Norwich fans calling for his head. It's all part of a natural process, these things come and go. If we win a couple of games out of the next 4 this will all die down until the next bad defeat and then off we go again. All part of that, you know, circle of something isn't it? You’re absolutely right that NSC is not a true indication of the feelings of the whole Albion support, but then again neither is the feelings of the specific group of people you go to games with. None of the people who sit round me in the South Stand have voiced opposition to McGhee, so I could quite easily claim that therefore there is a large amount of people who DON’T want McGhee to go.

You tend to know when a manager is unpopular by the feelings of the majority of people in the ground. You didn’t need the internet to know that Barry Lloyd wasn’t popular figure in 1993. You didn’t need to read NSC to get the idea that Jeff Wood was seen as a terrible manager by the majority of Albion supporters in 1998. If there’s going to be a “revolt” against the manager it won’t come from this message board, it’ll be something that grows and grows at a steady pace until you start hearing “McGhee out” chants at Withdean. That’s a natural process that will only come if we start losing a lot of games on the spin. It’s hard to get particularly wound up by score draws, 1-1 draws with Wolves and Ipswich are not the kind of combustible material that can spark off large scale chants for the managers head. I say that it is only at Withdean, where McGhee has a lot more support than that from the travelling crowd, that you will be able to judge if McGhee has lost the support of the majority of the crowd. I say again that the majority of people will not turn against McGhee until we have a run of bad defeats and performances. Rougvie is of the opinion that this has already started based on “rumblings in the pubs of Mid-Sussex”, I don’t think there will be any groundswell of opposition to McGhee until we start losing a lot of games. Maybe that’s me putting my eye to the telescope and declaring “I see no ships” but it is a position that I believe.

My position is, I as I said before, that McGhee's credit with me is still good and it would take a really bad run of defeats to erode that. Some people have exhausted the amount of credit they're prepared to give him, fine that's their decision. One thing is for sure: We are all Albion fans together, Managers come and go but the biggest win we've ever had was on the 28th of October. I don't care who's in the dugout for that first game in 2008, I just want to be in that stadium (unless it's Graham Rix or Terry Fenwick!). I think that's something we all agree on surely?

Defence rests your honour.

Can we have an abridge version? Have not got time to read all that.

 

[Bluejuice]

Those who prefer the bigger picture can take comfort in remembering that NSC is NOT in any way representative of the Albion's true fan base. Postings come from just a handful of generally younger, reasonably well-educated but highly opinionated Albion obsessives.

Top 10 NSC posters:

KinkyGoebels - Not even an Albion fan
Chapmans The Saviour - Youngish, opinionated and reasonably well educated. I'll give you him
Yorkie - I don't think even she herself would consider herself to be of the "generally younger" posters (no offence)
Braders7 - OK fair enough
Beach Hut - I get the distinct impression this guy hasn't seen his 30's in a while
Juan Albion - Same again
Trigger - Not that well educated
CrabtreeBHA - Never heard of him....
dougdeep - Another poster probably not in his first flush of youth
fatboy -

My point being that while NSC isn't entirely representative of the clubs fanbase, you can't say it isn't one of the loudest sections of support. And it is certainly larger than any supporters club.

I think you give this place less credit than it is due

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Can we have an abridge version? Have not got time to read all that.

In brief, Ex-Shelton Seagull was suggesting we replace MM with Paul Gascgoine as head coach working alongside Graham Rix as director of football whilst ex-Albion stalwart and legendary American shot stopper Tony Meola would identify new players and pick the team.

 

[Gerbil]

It is probably the same people who boo Coppell, Taylor etc for their lack of loyalty who want to sack McGhee (who has been loyal).

I think you'll find Coppell and Taylor get booed because they are both PALACE SCUM.

 

[Lokki 7]

I think you'll find Coppell and Taylor get booed because they are both PALACE SCUM.

Can't argue with that.

Happy Birthday gerbil

 

[Ex Shelton Seagull]

In brief, Ex-Shelton Seagull was suggesting we replace MM with Paul Gascgoine as head coach working alongside Graham Rix as director of football whilst ex-Albion stalwart and legendary American shot stopper Tony Meola would identify new players and pick the team.

Got it in one!

 

[Gerbil]

Can't argue with that.

Happy Birthday gerbil

Thanks mate

 

[sams dad]

I think you'll find Coppell and Taylor get booed because they are both PALACE SCUM.

I make you right there ,fella.That's certainly the reason I boo them.

 

[enigma]

That's right - his avatar used to be him with his arm around McGhee didn't it?

There's nothing like loyalty is there?

 

[Windmill]

I find it sad that people are always looking for scapegoats and reasons to blame. carp or criticise rather than celebrate what is good about our club.

We got Falmer.
We are overachieving given our available resources.
We have a very good youth set-up.
We have an effective management team.
The team largely has a good spirit.

Luckily the people in charge do not swing with the wind like some of the people on NSC, which is why we are now moving in the right direction.

I feel sure that Dick's next priority will be to give McGhee enough funds to ensure he buys the players we need to stay in this division.Given we have a new stadium to build, this is now paramount even if people didn't think it was before.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Im pretty sure the calls will come sooner rather than later

Any kind of humiliation against Palace will put NSC into meltdown, rightly or wrongly.

 

[NMH]

Who cares about any of this drivel ?

Look, NSC is a place to chat about FOOTBALL and all things BHA particularly. McGhee is manager, and neither he nor the players are beyond discussion.

What are some of you PLONKERS so afraid of? Discussion?

So WHAT if people knock anyone on the roster - the point of entertaining football and home success is to fill seats. If BHA fail to do that, people fail to turn out their pockets at the turnstile and THAT'S A COLD HARD FACT.

A message to Brighton staff; perform well for Brighton or expect the fans to be unhappy with you.

Now Gilliver's Travels and all who agree with you - what's wrong with that?

 

[Yorkie]

Who cares about any of this drivel ?

Look, NSC is a place to chat about FOOTBALL and all things BHA particularly. McGhee is manager, and neither he nor the players are beyond discussion.

What are some of you PLONKERS so afraid of? Discussion?

So WHAT if people knock anyone on the roster - the point of entertaining football and home success is to fill seats. If BHA fail to do that, people fail to turn out their pockets at the turnstile and THAT'S A COLD HARD FACT.

A message to Brighton staff; perform well for Brighton or expect the fans to be unhappy with you.

Now Gilliver's Travels and all who agree with you - what's wrong with that?

Over balance. Over reaction.
But then that is Nsc for you.

 

[Yorkie]

No MY ARS is the true voice

That's the truest thing you've ever typed

 

[caz99]

Over balance. Over reaction.
But then that is Nsc for you.

I dont think so, its the most sensible thread on here. everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

[caz99]

There certainly wasn't this amount of stuff after we put in two shit performances vs Norwich and Cardiff at home. I don't really see how a standard shit Stoke performance can be viewed as a camel breaking straw.
.

It wasnt a standard shit performance was it? we were diabolical, couldnt even pass the ball more than a metre. how could we come out so confident in the first half then totally lose it for the last 45 minutes?