McGhee spot on in the Argus

[Da Man Clay]

2004/2005 6 defeats from 5th march - 5th april and just one win in the last 11 games.

2005/2006 6 defeats 4th feb - 4th march in the spell of just one win in 16 games.

So not in half a season or at League 1 level.
Anyway there is no point discussing this much more, McGhee has gone and Wilkins is here.

 

[Albion Rob]

McGhee's making or the board's lack of funding?

Bit of both to be honest.

He certainly did bring in quite a few players - McCammon, Frutos, Carole, CKR to name four - and very few really worked out. Hard to argue he wasn't given funding but obviously he was not given anywhere near enough to afford us mid table respectability in the Championship. Hence the manner of our relegation.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Bit of both to be honest.

He certainly did bring in quite a few players - McCammon, Frutos, Carole, CKR to name four - and very few really worked out. Hard to argue he wasn't given funding but obviously he was not given anywhere near enough to afford us mid table respectability in the Championship. Hence the manner of our relegation.

Agreed, we were always punching well well above our weight in that division. We only stayed up in the first season beacause of a McGhee gamble that paid off very well.

 

[NMH]

Sadly, I think there is something in that. Wilkins' appointment was mainly welcomed by the hardcore fans who have followed his progress with the youth team very closely and can recognise a talented coach. The fan who picks and chooses his games wanted a bigger name to enthuse him.

The irony about McGhee is that although he was a divisive figure by the end, expectations in him remained very high, hence the binfests that would occur following a defeat, hence why he still has the two biggest attendances of our season so far. Expectations in Wilkins are far lower, hence there is no big reaction to our present defeats. But these lower expectations have led the floating fan to reason that there is no pressing need to attend Withdean at the moment, as this is going to be a quiet, non-event type of season with little chance of great progress.

Pretty much. However, for those 'floating fans' I feel a bit sorry and mix in a bit of scorn too. They might turn up with the promise of guaranteed wins, but miss some excellent football until they are convinced. Harking back to the 70's when BHA really got a fire under it - some of my best memories predate the 'famous' period, when we were a good bet to win, and Wardy was jinking around every defender in the league. Those were the times when you really got to know your players, their character, in the grinding out of games where anything might happen.

I remain hopeful that Wilkins will turn this acorn into a mighty oak, but it will have to be something of a revolution.

As for someone mentioning player-contracts effecting the Stoke result - that's a nice out for MM, but if those players were in my charge there'd be a lot of apologising to be done. With or without contracts in the balance, they should be playing their hearts out for the club and for the fans.
One might even imagine they'd play harder with that in mind, wouldn't one?

This one would.

 

[Da Man Clay]

I remain hopeful that Wilkins will turn this acorn into a mighty oak, but it will have to be something of a revolution.

As for someone mentioning player-contracts effecting the Stoke result - that's a nice out for MM, but if those players were in my charge there'd be a lot of apologising to be done. With or without contracts in the balance, they should be playing their hearts out for the club and for the fans.
One might even imagine they'd play harder with that in mind, wouldn't one?

This one would.

Same here. Though who says there wasn't alot of apologising done?

On the mention of player contracts, what happened to Nicolas? The player that alot of people from NSC thought should be in our midfield, seems to have done as much as a disappearing act as Turinezo.

 

[London Irish]

On the mention of player contracts, what happened to Nicolas? The player that alot of people from NSC thought should be in our midfield, seems to have done as much as a disappearing act as Turinezo.

This was his last game for St Albans. Ouch!

http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=497390

 

[cjd]

hence why he still has the two biggest attendances of our season so far.

I think we can all be agreed that we have a hardcore of 5000 supporters....and a large number of "fairweather" fans. When would these "fairweather" supporters rather watch the Albion..?

a) August/ September with a late summer temperatures...?

or

b) Mid-winter, the rain lashing down, howling winds and plumetting temperatures....?

 

[vulture]

Have to say that the football has been very poor this season under both Mcghee and Wilkins.
Think the drop in crowds is due to some people not happy with the boards lack of invesment on the playing side.
I will judge Wilkins after the 31st Janaury deadline and would really like for Wilkins to prove a hit with the Albion.
However,his tatics and formainton etc over the last few games is a cause for concern
Dick Knight and the board though should take along hard look in the mirror as even though I was no fan of Mark Mcghee they way he was treated was very poor.The board should of sacked him after the Stoke game or backed him 100% in public any splits on the board should of stayed in house.Once made public Mcghee was a sitting duck,and Knight was very clever when he sacked him just after another failure on transfer deadline day to divert this fact

 

[NMH]

Same here. Though who says there wasn't alot of apologising done?

On the mention of player contracts, what happened to Nicolas? The player that alot of people from NSC thought should be in our midfield, seems to have done as much as a disappearing act as Turinezo.

Nicolas was a fairly decent player - not big enough I don't think, to be 'imposing', and not skilled enough to be called 'class'. He did an okay job, and was seen to be a tryer, a hard worker in general (in my view that would be true to say).
For all his effort and industry, he was not indispensable to McGhee, and he was....dispensed with.
Not 'greatly' missed, but liked nonetheless.

In his time at Brighton, there were games when his position was seen wanting (as our midfield has been for a couple of seasons at least!), so fans were bound to respect his effort at least

I won't pass up this opportunity to extol the recent virtues of Adam el-Abd in the midfield. Brave and persistent, he's presently and indisputably indispensable.

 

[NMH]

I think we can all be agreed that we have a hardcore of 5000 supporters....and a large number of "fairweather" fans. When would these "fairweather" supporters rather watch the Albion..?

a) August/ September with a late summer temperatures...?

or

b) Mid-winter, the rain lashing down, howling winds and plumetting temperatures....?

It must be a factor. Crowds would have dwindled anyway, perhaps, unless some amazing consistent wins were happening.
It would not be fair to suggest that we should suddenly, without any new players, produce promotion-quality performances and results.

Personally, I enjoy the football a lot more, win or lose, since DW took over.
We have lost several, and we've even managed to hold onto a couple of leads and score more than a single goal per game.
(Before anyone asks would I rather we get relegated playing interesting football, stick a bloody sock in it because we were going that way playing dull football with McGhee. Yes, we were)

 

[Da Man Clay]

(Before anyone asks would I rather we get relegated playing interesting football, stick a bloody sock in it because we were going that way playing dull football with McGhee. Yes, we were)

Sorry but no we weren't id rather stay up playing shit, Than get relegated playing the best football ever seen.

 

[NMH]

"Is this the 5minute argument, or just a contradiction of terms?"

 

[Da Man Clay]

"Is this the 5minute argument, or just a contradiction of terms?"

 

[NMH]

You would pay to watch shit football would you?
It's already a given that we don't agree that MM would quite possibly have taken us down, as I believe it was on the cards just as much or maybe more so, as it would be/is with Wilkins. So let's not bother with that boring 'contradiction of terms' because that IS all it will be.

I'll ask you this then - do you think that many other people would "pay to watch shit football"?

And if your answer is "no", then tell me how a club is going to stay in business.

If your answer is "yes, loads of people will pay to watch shit football" then I understand you just don't care what you get fed. You would therefore be happily entertained by paint drying.

You insist on that hypothetical argument, let's find out how far you stand by it.

 

[Da Man Clay]

You would pay to watch shit football would you?
It's already a given that we don't agree that MM would quite possibly have taken us down, as I believe it was on the cards just as much or maybe more so, as it would be/is with Wilkins. So let's not bother with that boring 'contradiction of terms' because that IS all it will be.

I'll ask you this then - do you think that many other people would "pay to watch shit football"?

And if your answer is "no", then tell me how a club is going to stay in business.

If your answer is "yes, loads of people will pay to watch shit football" then I understand you just don't care what you get fed. You would therefore be happily entertained by paint drying.

You insist on that hypothetical argument, let's find out how far you stand by it.

Yes - Hypothetically id prefer to pay to watch winning football no matter how shit. I think most would pay to be watching winning football no matter how bad, than watching us play good football and get beat week in and week out.

If we were to play good football and get relegated do you think many people would be back next year?

 

[NMH]

Yes - Hypothetically id prefer to pay to watch winning football no matter how shit. I think most would pay to watching winning football no matter how bad.

If we were to play good football and get relegated do you think many people would be back next year? If we were winning dour games 1-0 there would be more people watching then if we were playing good football and getting beat 4-3 and 3-2.

But I am not referring, or interested in comparing this stuff. This is black and white world sort of argument, and of course we would be happier WINNING games than losing them! Take it to the extreme and it would always be preferable to be boring winners of the Champions League that exciting losers-in-the-first round. That's why I said "before anyone asks would I rather we get relegated playing interesting football, stick a bloody sock in it because we were going that way playing dull football with McGhee. Yes, we were". He did not represent WINNING dull football now did he (that's not a question, it is fact).
We were not going to do anything with MM, we were likely to be either a mid-table bore or a relegation-fighting bore. With the excuse that we don't have funds. And with the increasing excuse that the players we did have weren't good enough to do better than struggle, and weren't good enough to sell for enough money to replace them.

We will probably still struggle just the same now. But the foregone conclusion that McGhee represented, along with the dull as dishwater football, was losing ....no, had already lost the fans.
Maybe not YOU Da Man Clay, but apparently enough for our Chairman to take action.