McGhee got it very WRONG tonight...

[Turkey]

Match report says 4-3-3! I wasn't there last night. Is that fair?

It was intended to be 4-3-2-1. It certainly wasn't 4-3-3. It did end up as 4-5-1 though because Currie and Jarrett couldn't/didn't get forward.

 

[Turkey]

There, i admire that, well done MM, back to 4-4-2 now please unless London Irish can convince you otherwise.

It is bloody obvious that it didn't suit the players.

The players clearly didn't have a clue.

I don't believe the tactic though was wrong or 4-4-2 is the answer.

We couldn't tackle. 4-5-1/4-4-2 it makes no difference.

I'm not sure what his next move is now. It'll be interesting.

I'd put Hart in for Reid.

 

[London Irish]

with last seasons pairing of Jones and Harty, their role was to help defensively backing up the fullbacks.

With Currie and Jarrett, this was obviously missing from Reading and again last night. The tatics were not defensive, but stuck in the middle.

Does he revert to a more defensive pairing of jones and harty and 2 up front, or leave it as iit is with the one striker.

My opinion is to return to the tried and tested formula of last seaon until we have some points on the board

Good post. At last someone making some intelligent points about 4-4-2. If you revert to 4-4-2 you have got to make sure your midfield can cope with the ball-winning job.

 

[London Irish]

There, i admire that, well done MM, back to 4-4-2 now please unless London Irish can convince you otherwise.

Marvellous Trigger. Now perhaps you can answer the points I raised in my post 10 minutes ago. I'm waiting.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Do you feel better now. I couldn't read any positive alternatives in your rant, who are these midfield ball-players trapped in our reserves who we could have brought on to stroke the ball about and outpass Plymouth then? You quote my criticism of the 4-4-2 but then don't respond to any of the points I raised in it :thud: When you work out why it's UTTER BOLLOCKS, let me know

Well im pretty sure that we have players in the under 12's who can pass the ball around better than Kerry Mayo!

I am not the manager so its not really down to me to suggest alternatives i am just pointing out what is obviously wrong with the team. Personally i would have played 442 with reid and nicholas in the middle, but thats just my opinion!

If reid isn't up to the job then its MM fault that he hasn't brought anyone in, neither Oatway, Carpenter or Roger are particularly good at getting forward they are defensive midfielders. All im saying is that it has been blearingly obvious that this is a fault with the team however what has MM done about it?! Nothing - he brings in Nicholas and then proudly announces that he will be 'good cover for Charlie Oatway'!

Im glad he has admitted responsibility for last nights tactics, but i think it runs deeper - its his whole ethos that he needs to change.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It is clear McGhee is missing the big target man we had in Iwelumo / Benjamin / Henderson last season.

I subscribe to the view that Robinson is not ready to be a starting forward and should be a bench player for the foreseeable future, certainly until he puts some muscle on.

Hopefully, when Knight returns he will partner Molango and we will go back to 4-4-2. I'd definitely play Jones wide left and Hart wide right, drop Currie and Jarrett to the bench, with Reid and Nicolas in the middle.

Jones gives Harding the protection he needs, although I really think we need a loan signing left-back a.s.ap:

Presently, the best team we have in the squad is as follows:

1. Roberts

2. Virgo
3. Harding
4. Cullip
5. Blackwell

6. Rodger
7. Carpenter
8. Jones
9. Hart

10 Molango
11. Knight.

 

[Seagulltonian]

Was last nights performance as bad as Mr. McGhee's first game in charge against Bristol City last season? If it was, then as the song says "things can only get better"

 

[Trigger]

Marvellous Trigger. Now perhaps you can answer the points I raised in my post 10 minutes ago. I'm waiting.

I've already answered your question about the two up front to which you didn't have an answer except 'watch out arsene wenger'... yeah great constructive reply...

In regards to the midfield, Currie was static all night, replace him with Hart who will be keen to impress to win his place back, Jarrett is the only player that can create anything, Nicolas looked fine to me, won a lot of tackles and kept his passes simple and short, Reid didn't have a great game but did produce something towards the end to suggest he is nearing full fitness, Chippy will be back soon though, and Mayo, well perhaps it's best he goes back to left back.

Even McGhee didn't think 4-5-1 worked, are you going to argue with him aswell?...

May aswell play 4-4-2 and try and attack and get a 2-2 rather play 4-5-1 and get overun in midfield anyway and settle for an 0-2 defeat... We don't have a hope of staying up playing for 0-0 draws at home, sorry but it's true.

I sometimes wonder if you want us to go down

 

[m20gull]

I think I've explained in at least two, perhaps three, different threads what is the potential pitfalls of using these players in a 4-4-2 system.

As yet, all the tactical genuises on here haven't had the guts or intellectual honesty to confront the problems and address them.

I will repeat again in the hope that all the people on here who think they are better tacticians than McGhee might have the guts to respond.

That midfield 4 is defensively TOO WEAK. Jarrett is an inexperienced defender and Reid is half-fit. Nicolas is barely finding his feet in the team and OGH has had a poor pre-season.

People honesty think that line-up would have beaten the impressive Plymouth midfield last night?

The problem with the front 2 is that neither is GOOD AT HOLDING UP THE BALL. The idea that they would have relieved pressure on our midfield is NAIVE.

Now, has anyone of NSC got the guts to address these obvious points - or are people just going to carry on overreacting to one early-season defeat?

I'll take up the gauntlet. I think the main weakness with the propsoed 4-4-2 line-up is Reid's fitness(?) and Jarrett's youthful enthusiasm. I agree with the views that Harding has looked weak since before the end of last season and needs help at times. Swap Jones in for Jarrett and you've got better protection, and a pacy winger on the bench to bring on to win the game.

Up front, I don't think there's a problem with not having a holding player. Robinson and Molango are both young and should be able to chase the ball around all day. Even more so if they have the duty shared rather than individually. The defence would not know where to look, rather than being able to focus on one player.

With Jones and Hart getting up and back the central pair can focus more on protection.

Reid is then the weak link. I have been continually unimpressed by him. I intially put it down to fitness but it doesn't seem to have got better with time. He obviously has some quality but needs to show more. Give him more defensively minded duties and fitness would be less of a problem.

So there we have 10 players, all in positions they know with Mayo, Jarrett, Currie on the bench.

 

[London Calling]

LI,

Some formations just do not suit the players.

On paper you and McGoo may be right that 4-5-1 was the "best" solution. But if the players can't perform, don't know where they should be or are just out witted by the opposition, then this formation or any other needs to be adapted.

One other point. If you only have one player at front, their defence can relax and pump 1 or 2 defenders of their back four into the midfield. If we have two up front, the knock on's, inter-passing etc that result from this partnership normally means the defence will maintain a back four.

LC

 

[Barnet Seagull]

I think I've explained in at least two, perhaps three, different threads what is the potential pitfalls of using these players in a 4-4-2 system.

As yet, all the tactical genuises on here haven't had the guts or intellectual honesty to confront the problems and address them.

I will repeat again in the hope that all the people on here who think they are better tacticians than McGhee might have the guts to respond.

That midfield 4 is defensively TOO WEAK. Jarrett is an inexperienced defender and Reid is half-fit. Nicolas is barely finding his feet in the team and OGH has had a poor pre-season.

People honesty think that line-up would have beaten the impressive Plymouth midfield last night?

The problem with the front 2 is that neither is GOOD AT HOLDING UP THE BALL. The idea that they would have relieved pressure on our midfield is NAIVE.

Now, has anyone of NSC got the guts to address these obvious points - or are people just going to carry on overreacting to one early-season defeat?

It's OK LI.

I agree with you completely.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with the back four, provided they have the protection they need. This means Jones, Carpenter & Oatway.

I think Jarrett has enough going forward to comand the right side of midfield, provided we play 3 in the middle.

If we're 4-5-1, I reckon in hindsight McGhee should have played this lot last night.

1. Kuipers
2. Hinshelwood
3. Butters
4. Cullip
5. Harding
6. Jarrett
7. Reid
8. Virgo
9. Nicolas
10. Jones
11. Molango
    [/list=1]

 

[Curious Orange]

We didn't have a shot on target until the 84th minute.

That isn't the point, prior to the penalty we looked like we could go on to create chances, a "what if" situation but worth keeping in mind. The reason we didn't get a shot on target til the 84th minute was because we were a man down and unbalanced by that.

 

[berkshire seagull]

Can't believe we had 1 shot
must attack at home its that simple as whats the point in bringing in speedy players if we are sat back inviting pressure dear o dear.

 

[London Irish]

It's back by popular demand

Trigger, for God's sake say something interesting now you've gone to all that trouble.

 

[Trigger]

It's back by popular demand

Trigger, for God's sake say something interesting now you've gone to all that trouble.

**** - There ya go

(note: that was said in jest) *sigh*

 

[London Irish]

Yeah that was too much pressure on you there, sorry Trig.

 

[Trigger]

Yeah that was too much pressure on you there, sorry Trig.

Well i am still waiting for my response from you for the post i made up the page before it was locked... That's why i asked for it to be re-opened, i know you like the last word...

I'm such a kind and thoughtful man.

 

[oapdodge]

I think I've explained in at least two, perhaps three, different threads what is the potential pitfalls of using these players in a 4-4-2 system.

As yet, all the tactical genuises on here haven't had the guts or intellectual honesty to confront the problems and address them.

I will repeat again in the hope that all the people on here who think they are better tacticians than McGhee might have the guts to respond.

That midfield 4 is defensively TOO WEAK. Jarrett is an inexperienced defender and Reid is half-fit. Nicolas is barely finding his feet in the team and OGH has had a poor pre-season.

People honesty think that line-up would have beaten the impressive Plymouth midfield last night?

The problem with the front 2 is that neither is GOOD AT HOLDING UP THE BALL. The idea that they would have relieved pressure on our midfield is NAIVE.

Now, has anyone of NSC got the guts to address these obvious points - or are people just going to carry on overreacting to one early-season defeat?

4-4-2 could have been played no doubts.
I undestand alot of your reasoning.
The midfield 4 I would have liked to see would have been
Currie Ried Nicolas Jones
Playing Hart is not required he did not play well last season he chases around and dives in but we don't often get telling crosses or an end product his goal scoring record is not good either.Currie deserves a chance all this rubbish about him not being fit etc is a joke,he can also play some very good passes and did last night.Nicolas could have sat as the defensive midfield player,afterall McGhee has said he is very siomilar to Oatway.Reid could have played the Carpenter role alot of the time he was caught out by playing balls in danger areas because he didn't have options.Jones has played at left midfield and has pace and is well aware of his defensive requirements also having played with Harding the are the same wave length.Jarrett does not look like he can tackle.Jarrett can run but in the 2 games I've seen he has not produced any telling pass or shot or any end product.I think to many are going over the top about him.
Up front you could have Molango with any of the 3 Hart,Robinson or Jarrett.I agree again none are true ball winners or will hold the ball up but they would have put the Plymouth players under more pressure.Prevented the full backs getting forward so our midfield would not have been so over run.We could have also then put the ball in the channel to get the Plymouth defenders facing their own goal and with the pace of any of the 4 possible strikers it would have put them under more pressure.Last season we had Virgo and Harding along with Butters and Cullip hitting the channel regularily call it hoofing or percentage football but if our strength is in pace up front we need to get the ball behind our opposition defenders so we can run onto the ball,rather then holding it up.The result might have been the same but we will never know.This great Plymouth side you talk about scored one dodgy OG and a penalty.Ok they had other chances but didn't take them had we had a go at them more who knows what might have happened.All we do know is that playing 1 up front didn't work we lost 2-0 and never looked like scoring that is FACT.If we had played 4-4-2 we might have drawn 2-2 ? You can not say that wouldn't of happened it is an opinion.
Play the ball into the channels,turn the defenders and play to our strengths of pace in certain areas.Play 4-4-2 the system the players are comfortable with and play the players who feel comfortable with each other.
LI I have the guts to try and discuss football with you.The thing about football is we all have opinions and we all think we are right we have thousands of managers every week and would all do something different.It only matters what one person thinks and I will always support him but doesn't mean I can't disagree.

 

[London Irish]

I'm such a kind and thoughtful man.

Yes, yes you are*



































* You see, I can do the matey, backslapping NSP stuff as well as random abuse, now that's what I CALL tactical flexibility

 

[London Irish]

Good post Dodge, lots of interesting stuff there, back with you when my shift finishes.