Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[darkwolf666]

^So it won’t be a 2/3 week circuit breaker it will be a 4 month thing again?

The ONLY way we can escape long term lockdown over winter with the current strategy being taken is for there to be a vaccine this side of the new year. Even if there is a vaccine in January and that’s extremely optimistic, you wouldn’t be able to release restrictions for at least a few months. Most vaccinations aren’t instantly effective and you’d need time to vaccinate all the vulnerable.

My plan would be:

Allow spread amongst the young and healthy, allow them to build up immunity and this will leave us in good stead for the winter months. Isolate and shield the vulnerable for 4/6 weeks, fully paid and compensated, again not easy because a lot of vulnerable people wouldn’t want to shield or lock themselves away for 4 weeks, but I do believe many would shield IF they knew it was going to achieve something in the long term battle against COVID, I repeat my point, should we fully lockdown or ‘circuit break’ these vulnerable people will probably be forced to shield and stay at home anyway.

I don’t profess any plan is guaranteed or easy, but our current tactic when Boris himself said yesterday that the vaccine is by no means a certainty and Hancock says we will live with restrictions until there is a vaccine you have to look at whether Locking down, easing restrictions and then locking down again when cases inevitably rise is the correct tactic.

This virus is endemic, it isn’t going away, it’s been around for a year nearly already and it’s still going strong, I’ve done a lot of research about coronavirus group vaccines and why they are so unbelievably difficult to produce, this article is from June so things have changed since then but it does give you a real understanding of why the coronavirus family virus is so hard to vaccinate against and this is my main reason for why I disagree with having no other tactic other than lockdown until there is a vaccine. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12146616

I don’t seem to have many people that agree with me on here and that’s fine, but those are my reasons, a plan is difficult to formulate but I’m truly certain in my own head, once all is said and done, lockdown will be known as a strategy that cost the economy trillions, countless lives through economic depression and most important I believe lockdown in the long run will cost more lives than it saves.

As someone who has lost someone as a result of having their cancer treatment stopped, I guess that’s probably one of the reasons why I’m so anti lockdown. I can’t imagine how many other families are suffering the same and that’s just cancer treatments, as I’ve repeatedly said about all the people dying at home more than usual, their lives matter too. As do people having heart attacks, strokes, mental health issues etc the list goes on.

I have put two bits in bold for very different reasons. The first part regarding the vulnerable, at last someone has come out with something akin to my own feeling re the vulnerable. You do have to take it further though, as it has to be extended to all those within the household and not just the vulnerable person. You also touched upon choice, as yes not all that are vulnerable would want to be locked up again - 14 weeks under house arrest was tough last time, but we had decent weather and my family was lucky to be blessed with a garden we could sit in. The same thing in the winter would be a lot more difficult.

The second bold bit gets trotted out all too often. I am deeply sorry for your loss. I am very surprised treatment was denied when someone was so close to death, I just know from my wife's case that she continued her chemotherapy throughout lockdown and is still undergoing it now. The paradox of having this treatment, which she will continue on for the next two years, is that due to her compromised immune system she probably has more chance now of dying from Covid than from cancer, something a lot of cancer patients all too readily know.

For us as a family, one way or another, we will ride out the next two years. Hopefully a vaccine will be developed in time to save people like my wife from the anguish of everyday looking at the slow creep of the figures and worrying about her life expectancy, while all the while people bitch and moan about stuff that ultimately is beyond their control, but clearly gives them a buzz... (That's not aimed at you)!

 

[The Wizard]

I think the 85% probability of a working vaccine in the next 6 months is exceptionally over estimated, most vaccines that make it to phase 3 trials are not rushed vaccines and are not vaccines against respiratory viruses, as the article I linked in my long post explains, the reason vaccines against coronaviruses are so difficult is because they are upper respiratory tract viruses primarily which are notoriously hard to produce vaccines against because our immune systems aren’t good at protecting us against those types of viruses, hence why coronaviruses continue to do the rounds and have done throughout human history, pretty much all of us have a cold at least a couple of times a year, that tells you just how ‘successful’ coronaviruses are

I think if the chances were 85% we’d have a lot more political leaders being far more optimistic than they are being, Ive heard Macron, Boris and Merkel in the last week downplay vaccine hopes by reminding people they are not a certainty. In my head it’s a 50/50 chance in the next year of a viable, mass produced vaccine. Hopefully I can look back on this and say I was wrong, I’m hoping beyond hope I am, otherwise this misery will continue.

I’ve lost all faith in our scientific advisors at government level, I see even this morning the health minister of state tweet this, whether or not you believe herd immunity is a viable option in this instance, just how can someone be this stupid, I say stupid, because she’s basically saying Herd immunity doesn’t exist. It’s literally scientific fact it does exi ST and to see someone with her role claim it doesn’t, is just staggering.
https://twitter.com/nadinedorries/status/1316086032908070926?s=21

 

[beorhthelm]

I think the 85% probability of a working vaccine in the next 6 months is exceptionally over estimated, most vaccines that make it to phase 3 trials are not rushed vaccines and are not vaccines against respiratory viruses, as the article I linked in my long post explains, the reason vaccines against coronaviruses are so difficult is because they are upper respiratory tract viruses primarily which are notoriously hard to produce vaccines against because our immune systems aren’t good at protecting us against those types of viruses, hence why coronaviruses continue to do the rounds and have done throughout human history, pretty much all of us have a cold at least a couple of times a year, that tells you just how ‘successful’ coronaviruses are

I think if the chances were 85% we’d have a lot more political leaders being far more optimistic than they are being, Ive heard Macron, Boris and Merkel in the last week downplay vaccine hopes by reminding people they are not a certainty. In my head it’s a 50/50 chance in the next year of a viable, mass produced vaccine. Hopefully I can look back on this and say I was wrong, I’m hoping beyond hope I am, otherwise this misery will continue.

I’ve lost all faith in our scientific advisors at government level, I see even this morning the health minister of state tweet this, whether or not you believe herd immunity is a viable option in this instance, just how can someone be this stupid, I say stupid, because she’s basically saying Herd immunity doesn’t exist. It’s literally scientific fact it does exi ST and to see someone with her role claim it doesn’t, is just staggering.
https://twitter.com/nadinedorries/status/1316086032908070926?s=21

coronavirus and rhinovirus (usual cold virus) are normally so mild it simply doesnt warrant developing a vaccine. while you found one source sceptical, and leaders are reserved, the pharma industry have multiple vaccine candidates in production ready for phase 3 completion and regulatory approval, they are that confident. 50/50 for the end of this year is more accurate, i'm expecting one of them in clinical settings in November.

 

[e77]

I think the 85% probability of a working vaccine in the next 6 months is exceptionally over estimated, most vaccines that make it to phase 3 trials are not rushed vaccines and are not vaccines against respiratory viruses, as the article I linked in my long post explains, the reason vaccines against coronaviruses are so difficult is because they are upper respiratory tract viruses primarily which are notoriously hard to produce vaccines against because our immune systems aren’t good at protecting us against those types of viruses, hence why coronaviruses continue to do the rounds and have done throughout human history, pretty much all of us have a cold at least a couple of times a year, that tells you just how ‘successful’ coronaviruses are

I think if the chances were 85% we’d have a lot more political leaders being far more optimistic than they are being, Ive heard Macron, Boris and Merkel in the last week downplay vaccine hopes by reminding people they are not a certainty. In my head it’s a 50/50 chance in the next year of a viable, mass produced vaccine. Hopefully I can look back on this and say I was wrong, I’m hoping beyond hope I am, otherwise this misery will continue.

I’ve lost all faith in our scientific advisors at government level, I see even this morning the health minister of state tweet this, whether or not you believe herd immunity is a viable option in this instance, just how can someone be this stupid, I say stupid, because she’s basically saying Herd immunity doesn’t exist. It’s literally scientific fact it does exi ST and to see someone with her role claim it doesn’t, is just staggering.
https://twitter.com/nadinedorries/status/1316086032908070926?s=21

The workings out for the 85% have been shown elsewhere.

Ultimately humanity will keep going until we find one. I would like to say as a fall back we could have a decent test and trace system but in this country I am not overly confident about that.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1316413190704594952?s=24

 

[dazzer6666]

https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1316413190704594952?s=24

That’s not a particularly unusual rate for ‘senior BCG staff’ - or partners from other consultancy firms for that matter. Wider question is why have they been brought in and what are they doing exactly, and what is the expected outcome ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Would be nice if a political party had the balls to call out those scouse (and manc) c*nts partying like it was 1999. Their actions might not kill their own grandma, but they'll sure as hell kill somebody else's grandma

 

[BLOCK F]

Would be nice if a political party had the balls to call out those scouse (and manc) c*nts partying like it was 1999. Their actions might not kill their own grandma, but they'll sure as hell kill somebody else's grandma

I've rather liked most of the Scousers I have met, (mainly in the course of my work) but I have to say that everytime I shook somebody's hand I counted my fingers afterwards! There is a certain element of recklessness and insanity about them, that is totally alien to the rest of us!

 

[Steve in Japan]

Given how much focus the numbers (cases, hospitalised, deaths) are getting, and how they shape policy......I'd suggest we put some effort into making sure they are right. The ability of our quangos to add up a long list of numbers is very suspect. As has been proven.

Let's get them audited by a credible, independent body. If we can find one.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

London and Essex being moved into Tier 2 wef midnight Friday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596

 

[sydney]

what a load of absolute bollox .....for **** sake , Khan and Starmer having a right ****ing giggle .....wakey wakey peeps....!!!

 

[larus]

So, who thinks we should follow the WHO now? After all, they are saying that lockdowns are now wrong.

I know people want to slag off true government, but what consistent advise has there been from the ‘scientists’?

Sweden has not had lockdowns and is not that bad. Other countries have had lockdowns and fared worse than them. It’s a complete clusterf*ck everywhere.

We should get on with it. Protect the vulnerable and those who live in a household with others who are vulnerable.

Life is not risk free, yet we seem to have morphed into a world where we expect to be protected from anything. Yet, so many who go on about the need to have lockdowns etc probably don’t even look after themselves. They will be overweight, drink too much, take drugs, smoke, not exercise, etc. But they view that as different. People need to take more personal responsibility IMO and don’t expect ‘someone’ else to look after them.

How many people are being impacted by not getting seen by doctors and diagnosed for cancers/strokes/etc? There’s a hidden cost to lives caused by the lockdowns, but that will never be known. And, then there’s the economic hit, but those in the public sector don’t care as their jobs are mainly protected.

 

[Albion Dan]

So, who thinks we should follow the WHO now? After all, they are saying that lockdowns are now wrong.

I know people want to slag off true government, but what consistent advise has there been from the ‘scientists’?

Sweden has not had lockdowns and is not that bad. Other countries have had lockdowns and fared worse than them. It’s a complete clusterf*ck everywhere.

We should get on with it. Protect the vulnerable and those who live in a household with others who are vulnerable.

Life is not risk free, yet we seem to have morphed into a world where we expect to be protected from anything. Yet, so many who go on about the need to have lockdowns etc probably don’t even look after themselves. They will be overweight, drink too much, take drugs, smoke, not exercise, etc. But they view that as different. People need to take more personal responsibility IMO and don’t expect ‘someone’ else to look after them.

How many people are being impacted by not getting seen by doctors and diagnosed for cancers/strokes/etc? There’s a hidden cost to lives caused by the lockdowns, but that will never be known. And, then there’s the economic hit, but those in the public sector don’t care as their jobs are mainly protected.

People now seem well beyond logical reason and seem happy to follow the utter disaster of leadership that is unfolding in front of our eyes. A halfway house mess of confusion and a government making decisions based on opinion polls, PR sentiment, and media fear porn. We're totally done as a country.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

So, who thinks we should follow the WHO now? After all, they are saying that lockdowns are now wrong.

I know people want to slag off true government, but what consistent advise has there been from the ‘scientists’?

Sweden has not had lockdowns and is not that bad. Other countries have had lockdowns and fared worse than them. It’s a complete clusterf*ck everywhere.

We should get on with it. Protect the vulnerable and those who live in a household with others who are vulnerable.

Life is not risk free, yet we seem to have morphed into a world where we expect to be protected from anything. Yet, so many who go on about the need to have lockdowns etc probably don’t even look after themselves. They will be overweight, drink too much, take drugs, smoke, not exercise, etc. But they view that as different. People need to take more personal responsibility IMO and don’t expect ‘someone’ else to look after them.

How many people are being impacted by not getting seen by doctors and diagnosed for cancers/strokes/etc? There’s a hidden cost to lives caused by the lockdowns, but that will never be known. And, then there’s the economic hit, but those in the public sector don’t care as their jobs are mainly protected.

They have also published a peer reviewed paper saying the predicted death rate is lower.

 

[sydney]

it's a mess , an absolute mess , it has become immediately obvious that most of the ***** in charge are winging it .........they are clueless.

 

[Ethelwulf]

This country is in crisis !!!! We have in my view a government which makes U-turns every hour let alone every day. Boris Johnson seems to be struggling with being the prime minster and in my opinion the only government minister with any idea is the chancellor. The opposition party which is still behind in the polls should be calling this government out and stop points scoring . Oh for the days when labour had a proper Labour person leading it. We are told as a country this our biggest crisis since the 2nd world war so why then is there no government of national unity ?

 

[Yoda]

This country is in crisis !!!! We have in my view a government which makes U-turns every hour let alone every day. Boris Johnson seems to be struggling with being the prime minster and in my opinion the only government minister with any idea is the chancellor. The opposition party which is still behind in the polls should be calling this government out and stop points scoring . Oh for the days when labour had a proper Labour person leading it. We are told as a country this our biggest crisis since the 2nd world war so why then is there no government of national unity ?

IDS has actually been talking a lot of sense as well, although unfortunately, he's only a back bencher now.

 

[sydney]

This country is in crisis !!!! We have in my view a government which makes U-turns every hour let alone every day. Boris Johnson seems to be struggling with being the prime minster and in my opinion the only government minister with any idea is the chancellor. The opposition party which is still behind in the polls should be calling this government out and stop points scoring . Oh for the days when labour had a proper Labour person leading it. We are told as a country this our biggest crisis since the 2nd world war so why then is there no government of national unity ?

too busy fingering each others bottoms at university to learn their scripts .....***** , playing games with our futures and the futures of our grandkids....disgusting pillocks the lot of them.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

On what parallel planet can it be right that national and local government get to haggle over what tier their manor gets placed in? Whatever happened to being led by the science?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

On what parallel planet can it be right that national and local government get to haggle over what tier their manor gets placed in? Whatever happened to being led by the science?

Because there is no money - they want to try and place the blame on local mayors