Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Poojah]

It’s not disagreeing with an opinion though is it he made a sarcastic comment, which as someone who advocated lockdown to save lives, seems hypocritical. And this is not being addressed you tell me how 100 more people a day are dying in their homes than usual?

Maybe there is an explanation from the government, the question doesn’t seem to be asked and government officials go on about 100 people a day dying of COVID as a possibility in the near future like a doomsday prediction, yet this has literally been happening for months and continues to happen.

That’s exactly my point, hospitals are much quieter than usual according to people who work in them (not northern hotspots), yet we don’t see any decrease in excess at home mortality over the entire summer, when COVID was well in retreat.


^ [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION] I don’t advocate just releasing all restrictions and going back to normal, I haven’t said that. Lockdowns aren’t the answer, just yesterday we had Hancock saying restrictions will be in place until there is a vaccine, the next sentence Boris seemed quite downbeat about the vaccine.

I don't pretend to have the answers, but my interpretation of this data is that this is a continued consequence of the original lockdown. We know that screening and treatment of many serious illnesses was paused for many people at the height of it, and sadly that will have led to people who may have otherwise lived, dying. Just not immediately - it will have taken time for their health to decline to the point of death.

Why would those people be dying at home, rather than hospital? Again, I can only speculate, but I imagine it's a matter of personal choice. If you know you're dying, I imagine the option of basic palliative care at home is more appealing at this time than being in hospital, where you have little control over your environment and restrictions around family visits.

Your point that we cannot continue to prioritise Covid-19 over other illnesses is a fair one though. FWIW, I don't think we had a great deal of choice during the first wave - testing was limited and we just didn't know where the virus was. There was an urgent need to bring cases down, and sending hoards of immuno-supressed cancer patients into a hospital environment would have probably been an even more reckless thing to do. Those patients are tragic collateral damage in all of this, however I don't think it's fair to lay the fault of that anyone's door.

Now is very different however. We know much more about what we're dealing with, and have had time to formulate a better response than simply shutting hospital doors to non-Covid patients. There are unfortunate aspects about lockdown 1.0 that should not and must not be repeated this time around as we've had time to find a better way.

 

[dangull]

Man tests positive for coronavirus twice in US' first confirmed reinfection case. The second time his symptoms were significantly worse.
That's a bit concerning if everybody is banking their hopes on a vaccine. Listening to radio 5 today the earliest they reckon that will happen is next June.

 

[middletoenail]

Man tests positive for coronavirus twice in US' first confirmed reinfection case. The second time his symptoms were significantly worse.
That's a bit concerning if everybody is banking their hopes on a vaccine. Listening to radio 5 today the earliest they reckon that will happen is next June.

One person, how many people are there in the US, let alone the world?

 

[e77]

Man tests positive for coronavirus twice in US' first confirmed reinfection case. The second time his symptoms were significantly worse.
That's a bit concerning if everybody is banking their hopes on a vaccine. Listening to radio 5 today the earliest they reckon that will happen is next June.

This is one case and people don't always get immune to something after catching it (it is possible, if rare, to get Measles twice for example). Having to have a vaccine booster or one every year seems to be expected now.

It might take a couple of years for everyone who wants one to have one (and probably longer than that globally) but if we can get front line workers, the elderly and vulnerable done we can return to something approaching normal life.

 

[dangull]

One person, how many people are there in the US, let alone the world?

I think there has been a few similar cases in other countries, but point taken.

 

[CHAPPERS]

For those that think Starmer isn't doing enough he is holding a press conference at 5pm.

 

[Is it PotG?]

For those that think Starmer isn't doing enough he is holding a press conference at 5pm.

The nation awaits a dynamic, forward thinking, proactive strategy.

 

[e77]

Yes, because thinking we should have a working test and trace system which would probably reduce infections and hence the need for lockdown is such a bad idea.

 

[CHAPPERS]

The nation awaits a dynamic, forward thinking, proactive strategy.

There you are.

“There is no longer time to give the prime minister the benefit of the doubt. The government’s plan simply isn’t working. Another course is needed. That is why I am calling for a two- to three-week circuit break in England – in line with Sage’s recommendation. A temporary set of clear and effective restrictions designed to get R back below 1. And to reverse the trend of infections and hospitalisations.”

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

There you are.

And if 2/3 week circuit breaker doesn’t work?

 

[The Wizard]

Just like the last ‘3 weeks lockdown to protect the NHS’

Starmer is an absolute clown.

How will a ‘circuit breaker’ lockdown work, what will happen when restrictions are released? Oh yeah, they won’t be released. The fact I’ve just read someone in this thread quote that as a ‘forward thinking, proactive strategy’ makes my brain hurt.

 

[atomised]

And if 2/3 week circuit breaker doesn’t work?

And in fairness all it will do is push it down the road another 2 to 3 weeks followed by a spell of lower figures before it creeps up again just in time for christmas

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Just like the last ‘3 weeks lockdown to protect the NHS’

Starmer is an absolute clown.

How will a ‘circuit breaker’ lockdown work, what will happen when restrictions are released? Oh yeah, they won’t be released. The fact I’ve just read someone in this thread quote that as a ‘forward thinking, proactive strategy’ makes my brain hurt.

I think many of us are still patiently awaiting your viable alternative suggestions.

Johnson’s plan is no good. Starmer’s plan is no good. What’s the answer?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Just like the last ‘3 weeks lockdown to protect the NHS’

Starmer is an absolute clown.

How will a ‘circuit breaker’ lockdown work, what will happen when restrictions are released? Oh yeah, they won’t be released. The fact I’ve just read someone in this thread quote that as a ‘forward thinking, proactive strategy’ makes my brain hurt.

Listening to SAGE is probably as forward thinking as a politician can be isn't it? Even if it's probably too late.

 

[A1X]

Just like the last ‘3 weeks lockdown to protect the NHS’

Starmer is an absolute clown.

How will a ‘circuit breaker’ lockdown work, what will happen when restrictions are released? Oh yeah, they won’t be released. The fact I’ve just read someone in this thread quote that as a ‘forward thinking, proactive strategy’ makes my brain hurt.

At a guess, maybe the same way they released the restrictions last time? After all, that bought us four months or so of relative normality before things started going really wrong again.

 

[The Wizard]

^So it won’t be a 2/3 week circuit breaker it will be a 4 month thing again?

The ONLY way we can escape long term lockdown over winter with the current strategy being taken is for there to be a vaccine this side of the new year. Even if there is a vaccine in January and that’s extremely optimistic, you wouldn’t be able to release restrictions for at least a few months. Most vaccinations aren’t instantly effective and you’d need time to vaccinate all the vulnerable.

My plan would be:

Allow spread amongst the young and healthy, allow them to build up immunity and this will leave us in good stead for the winter months. Isolate and shield the vulnerable for 4/6 weeks, fully paid and compensated, again not easy because a lot of vulnerable people wouldn’t want to shield or lock themselves away for 4 weeks, but I do believe many would shield IF they knew it was going to achieve something in the long term battle against COVID, I repeat my point, should we fully lockdown or ‘circuit break’ these vulnerable people will probably be forced to shield and stay at home anyway.

I don’t profess any plan is guaranteed or easy, but our current tactic when Boris himself said yesterday that the vaccine is by no means a certainty and Hancock says we will live with restrictions until there is a vaccine you have to look at whether Locking down, easing restrictions and then locking down again when cases inevitably rise is the correct tactic.

This virus is endemic, it isn’t going away, it’s been around for a year nearly already and it’s still going strong, I’ve done a lot of research about coronavirus group vaccines and why they are so unbelievably difficult to produce, this article is from June so things have changed since then but it does give you a real understanding of why the coronavirus family virus is so hard to vaccinate against and this is my main reason for why I disagree with having no other tactic other than lockdown until there is a vaccine. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12146616

I don’t seem to have many people that agree with me on here and that’s fine, but those are my reasons, a plan is difficult to formulate but I’m truly certain in my own head, once all is said and done, lockdown will be known as a strategy that cost the economy trillions, countless lives through economic depression and most important I believe lockdown in the long run will cost more lives than it saves.

As someone who has lost someone as a result of having their cancer treatment stopped, I guess that’s probably one of the reasons why I’m so anti lockdown. I can’t imagine how many other families are suffering the same and that’s just cancer treatments, as I’ve repeatedly said about all the people dying at home more than usual, their lives matter too. As do people having heart attacks, strokes, mental health issues etc the list goes on.

 

[A1X]

^So it won’t be a 2/3 week circuit breaker it will be a 4 month thing again?

If you're referring to me then that's not what I said.

 

[neilbard]

 

[Albion Dan]

As someone who has lost someone as a result of having their cancer treatment stopped, I guess that’s probably one of the reasons why I’m so anti lockdown. I can’t imagine how many other families are suffering the same and that’s just cancer treatments, as I’ve repeatedly said about all the people dying at home more than usual, their lives matter too. As do people having heart attacks, strokes, mental health issues etc the list goes on.

Mate I feel for you but the brainwashed won't listen to logical reason anymore. The media have done too good a number on a huge amount of the nation and they can't see we are driving the country 100mph into a brick wall over non covid health, mortality, and living conditions and poverty for decades to come that will dwarf the casualties of this disease. A complete destruction of our way of life probably forever. The damage to our children's futures unmeasurable. For a disease that kills less than 0.5% of people that catch it. Half of that number in care homes which should have had an iron fence around them for protection rather than having live cases sent in to kill them instead.

 

[e77]

^So it won’t be a 2/3 week circuit breaker it will be a 4 month thing again?

The ONLY way we can escape long term lockdown over winter with the current strategy being taken is for there to be a vaccine this side of the new year. Even if there is a vaccine in January and that’s extremely optimistic, you wouldn’t be able to release restrictions for at least a few months. Most vaccinations aren’t instantly effective and you’d need time to vaccinate all the vulnerable.

My plan would be:

Allow spread amongst the young and healthy, allow them to build up immunity and this will leave us in good stead for the winter months. Isolate and shield the vulnerable for 4/6 weeks, fully paid and compensated, again not easy because a lot of vulnerable people wouldn’t want to shield or lock themselves away for 4 weeks, but I do believe many would shield IF they knew it was going to achieve something in the long term battle against COVID, I repeat my point, should we fully lockdown or ‘circuit break’ these vulnerable people will probably be forced to shield and stay at home anyway.

I don’t profess any plan is guaranteed or easy, but our current tactic when Boris himself said yesterday that the vaccine is by no means a certainty and Hancock says we will live with restrictions until there is a vaccine you have to look at whether Locking down, easing restrictions and then locking down again when cases inevitably rise is the correct tactic.

This virus is endemic, it isn’t going away, it’s been around for a year nearly already and it’s still going strong, I’ve done a lot of research about coronavirus group vaccines and why they are so unbelievably difficult to produce, this article is from June so things have changed since then but it does give you a real understanding of why the coronavirus family virus is so hard to vaccinate against and this is my main reason for why I disagree with having no other tactic other than lockdown until there is a vaccine. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12146616

I don’t seem to have many people that agree with me on here and that’s fine, but those are my reasons, a plan is difficult to formulate but I’m truly certain in my own head, once all is said and done, lockdown will be known as a strategy that cost the economy trillions, countless lives through economic depression and most important I believe lockdown in the long run will cost more lives than it saves.

As someone who has lost someone as a result of having their cancer treatment stopped, I guess that’s probably one of the reasons why I’m so anti lockdown. I can’t imagine how many other families are suffering the same and that’s just cancer treatments, as I’ve repeatedly said about all the people dying at home more than usual, their lives matter too. As do people having heart attacks, strokes, mental health issues etc the list goes on.

As has been patiently been explained elsewhere, there is an 85% of a working vaccine being available in the next few months. Now this might not be a silver bullet to start with - although they will keep trying until they do find one - and will take a while to give to everyone if front line workers and the vulnerable can be immunised - or at least a lot of them are - that is a game changer that allows a return to something approaching reality.

That could be months away and if it isn't we will know soon enough so a holding operation is the entirely logical thing to do. That isn't to say we shouldn't be debating the details as, for example, the 2200 pubs closing rule just looks random.

Besides which every elected leader in the world will look at Ardern romping home to re-election in New Zealand and Trump losing, possibly badly, in the US and adopt a safety first policy as they are basically out of a job if they don't.