Madeleine McCann...

[DavidinSouthampton]

I think it's easy to come across as holier than thou when critiquing the McCann's actions. I have made plenty of mistakes as a parent, and as much as I do my best to learn from them I will make more again in the future. That is true of virtually every parent, to varying degrees. Fortunately, for most us of those mistakes end up being trivial rather than life changing.

We've 'lost' our son on a few occasions. The first time, he was little older than two. My missus was at home with him, waiting for her dad to pay them a visit. She was taking some washing upstairs, and simply said to him "you stand there and look out for granddad". When she came down stairs there was absolutely no sign of him. I received a phone call from her at work, and she was unintelligible (more so than usual even) - just crying and screaming down the phone. I'd never known her so upset in all the time I've known her, and believe me, I've upset her once or twice along the way.

After about 15 minutes of searching, a neighbour found him wandering in the road round the corner from our house. He'd taken "look out for granddad" as an instruction to go looking for him, and quietly slipped out of the door. She was only upstairs for a minute and boom, he'd vanished. That could have ended badly, fortunately it didn't.

It happened again on his sixth birthday last year. All the family had gone bowling, and he wanted to show my mum something near the arcade area. Instead of walking sensibly with her, he shot off and my dear old mum, in her 70s, completely lost sight of him. We spent nearly an hour searching for him. You very quickly go from a fairly casual "well, he can't have gone very far" to genuinely fearing something terrible might have happened. With every minute that goes by, that feeling gets worse.

As I say, after almost an hour, by this point everyone visibly stressed and panicked (not least my mum), he miraculously reappeared. The little bugger had been hiding in the disabled toilet, for nothing other than shits and giggles. He knew he was safe all along, so what's the problem? He couldn't quite comprehend the fact that we didn't.

It's the thought of not knowing whether that feeling is going to last for another five minutes, or the rest of your life. I can only imagine the horror the McCann's must have felt when they returned to find Madeleine's room empty, followed the the increasing feeling that with every minute, hour, day, week that passed, the situation was less-and-less likely to have a happy ending. As a parent, I can totally sympathise with them on that.

Maybe I, and in fact all of us, owe a degree of our own risk aversion as parents to the events of that night; a cruel case study as to what can go wrong if you take too big a gamble with your kids' safety, no matter how good the odds look on paper. But that's ultimately what they did; they rolled the dice and paid an incomprehensible price for their patatas bravas.

I know that feeling well. I was Christmas shopping with a friend, my toddler son somehow climbed out of his pushchair (not a buggy) whilst I was looking at something in a shop. I took my eyes off of him for no more than a minute or so. The shop was packed so I couldn’t see him anywhere. The shop assistants, manager & several people were looking for him.
I was taken to the manager’s office as I was almost collapsing with terror. Two teenage girls found him on a traffic island in the middle of the road outside, so he’d not only toddled out of the shop, but crossed to the middle in front of vehicles, aged less than two. The two girls had the sense to take him to the nearest shop from that point. I sympathise with anyone who has gone through that sort of ordeal.

We “lost” our then 2 year old daughter for a few minutes in WestQuay in Southampton over 30 years ago. Terrifying.

But I/we would never have left our girls in a Madeleine sort of situation...... and I thought that the minute the news broke however many years ago it is now.

 

[NooBHA]

We've 'lost' our son on a few occasions.

PMSL


I know it was a serious post and I shouldn't laugh but the way you said it was almost like you had lost a set of keys. Not meaning to belittle the rest of your post which was excellent and I agree with 100% I just found that phrase funny

 

[Poojah]

PMSL


I know it was a serious post and I shouldn't laugh but the way you said it was almost like you had lost a set of keys. Not meaning to belittle the rest of your post which was excellent and I agree with 100% I just found that phrase funny

No offence taken. I wrote ‘lost’ in inverted commas because it didn’t really sit right given the seriousness of the subject matter, but I couldn’t think of a more appropriate phrase.

 

[Lower West Stander]

We “lost” our then 2 year old daughter for a few minutes in WestQuay in Southampton over 30 years ago. Terrifying.

But I/we would never have left our girls in a Madeleine sort of situation...... and I thought that the minute the news broke however many years ago it is now.

And that is absolutely the point.

Every parent has had panic situations but they left their kids in an unlocked room with public access from the street whilst they were on the other side of the resort.

I don't care whether this was 2007, 1987 or 1677, I would never ever have done that.

 

[Cpt. Spavil]

Aparently, when I was in reception, I had managed to somehow escape through the bars of the gate and I wondered up town as my school was in the center of town.

I was found by a mother of one of the kids, who then took me back to the reception.

Who knows what could have happened to me had I not been seen by someone.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Aparently, when I was in reception, I had managed to somehow escape through the bars of the gate and I wondered up town as my school was in the center of town.

I was found by a mother of one of the kids, who then took me back to the reception.

Who knows what could have happened to me had I not been seen by someone.

I am reminded of my first day at infant school aged four when I decided to leave the premises at lunchtime and walk the mile back to my home, crossing a major road. I knocked on the door and told my mum that it was alright but I wouldn’t be going back tomorrow.

 

[Cpt. Spavil]

I am reminded of my first day at infant school aged four when I decided to leave the premises at lunchtime and walk the mile back to my home, crossing a major road. I knocked on the door and told my mum that it was alright but I wouldn’t be going back tomorrow.

I was banned from reception and they had to secure it better, I think they put something across the gate and railings to stop it happening again.

 

[One Love]

And that is absolutely the point.

Every parent has had panic situations but they left their kids in an unlocked room with public access from the street whilst they were on the other side of the resort.

I don't care whether this was 2007, 1987 or 1677, I would never ever have done that.

I don't think anyone disputes they did a stupid, careless act.

I am sure they know that as they are paying for it for the rest of their lives without anyone else needing to remind them.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I don't think anyone disputes they did a stupid, careless act.

I am sure they know that as they are paying for it for the rest of their lives without anyone else needing to remind them.

But their decision to actively use the press in the way they have leaves them vulnerable to the criticism they get.

Its not a matter of reminding them, its the price they (I assume) have elected to pay for being so public about the whole thing. There are many missing children who don't get anything like the coverage of this case - they took an active decision to do it this way and it goes with the territory I'm afraid.

This was tragic and they would never do it again but public sympathy will only go so far......

 

[drew]

And that is absolutely the point.

Every parent has had panic situations but they left their kids in an unlocked room with public access from the street whilst they were on the other side of the resort.

I don't care whether this was 2007, 1987 or 1677, I would never ever have done that.

You can't say that as you don't know what your attitude would have been in earlier times. For example, in the middle of the last century it wouldn't be uncommon to leave a baby out the front in a pram to sleep. People were more trusting (irrespective of whether that trust was warranted) in days gone by. It is only with the reporting of cases now and in some, blanket coverage, that parents take a more cautious approach.

I only became a parent in 2004 and so am part of the era where you don't take a chance. I wouldn't even use a baby monitoring service when abroad.

As someone pointed out, the McCann's know they made a big mistake and are living with that. They probably also know that by using the press as much as they did they would not only get criticism for that, you would also get the conspiracy loons spouting off as well. Maybe they feel that was the price worth paying if it helped get their daughter back. I suspect most people would arrive do the same.

 

[Gwylan]

You can't say that as you don't know what your attitude would have been in earlier times. For example, in the middle of the last century it wouldn't be uncommon to leave a baby out the front in a pram to sleep.

I know my mum used to leave me outside while she did her shopping. Mind you, she left the dog as well - he used to growl every time someone came near (apparently) so maybe it was seen as safe

 

[Lower West Stander]

You can't say that as you don't know what your attitude would have been in earlier times. For example, in the middle of the last century it wouldn't be uncommon to leave a baby out the front in a pram to sleep. People were more trusting (irrespective of whether that trust was warranted) in days gone by. It is only with the reporting of cases now and in some, blanket coverage, that parents take a more cautious approach.

I only became a parent in 2004 and so am part of the era where you don't take a chance. I wouldn't even use a baby monitoring service when abroad.

As someone pointed out, the McCann's know they made a big mistake and are living with that. They probably also know that by using the press as much as they did they would not only get criticism for that, you would also get the conspiracy loons spouting off as well. Maybe they feel that was the price worth paying if it helped get their daughter back. I suspect most people would arrive do the same.

But they wouldn't would they?

How many children have gone missing who haven't had the same coverage as this?

We could debate your first point ad infinitum and I agree with you that they made a decision to take the criticism but they are only one of many parents who have lost children and they shouldn't be treated any differently. I am not trying to trivialise this - every case is as distressing as the last one but the McCanns should not be singled out as a special case.

 

[clapham_gull]

But they wouldn't would they?

How many children have gone missing who haven't had the same coverage as this?

We could debate your first point ad infinitum and I agree with you that they made a decision to take the criticism but they are only one of many parents who have lost children and they shouldn't be treated any differently. I am not trying to trivialise this - every case is as distressing as the last one but the McCanns should not be singled out as a special case.

But they have been singled out quite uniquely by internet based conspiracy theorists and social media. Then certain parts of the press pick it up like they did with death of Diana.

No surprise the McCanns have to employ their own public relations advisors. Where I agree with you is there is a whole "industry" now surrounding this case, but the internet can be somewhat random in that regard.

 

[Napper]

[MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] the face this is still here is kind of proving my point!

what you bleating about now ?

sunny outside , get out there is my advice

 

[Napper]

The fact that the mods are VERY fast at sorting out libel posts but EXTREMELY slow at sorting out racist, sexist etc posts. The sexist post I quoted is STILL present, kind of proving my point.

you are way to sensitive. This is a football forum. Calling someone a girl isnt going to offend anyone . If its offending you then life isnt probably the place for you. Mods do a decent job with things that need moderating. Cheer up and get on with it

 

[Audax]

The fact that the mods are VERY fast at sorting out libel posts but EXTREMELY slow at sorting out racist, sexist etc posts. The sexist post I quoted is STILL present, kind of proving my point.

Doesn't surprise me in the least. Libel / defamation has the potential to get NSC (Bozza and the other mods), as well as whoever makes the post, into legal trouble that could cost significant amounts in payouts. While I think many of us would prefer to see some of the casual sexism stamped out, and definitely see the racism removed ASAP, neither of those types of posts existing here on NSC are going to get Bozza or the other mods into serious legal trouble.

It's a simple risk vs effort calculation. Defamation = high risk, low effort = gets removed. Sexism / racism = lower risk, higher effort (the person whose sexist / racist content gets removed is far more likely to object and cause further work than a libel / defamation removal in my experience) = may or may not get removed, depending on how obvious it is that the content needs to be removed and whether or not they've got a volume of members objecting to it.

Another point that is worth mentioning as well: for defamation, once the mods are aware of it they have a legal obligation to remove it. No ifs or buts or maybes. For sexism / racism, the legal obligation to remove only kicks in for the most extreme versions and even then only really when it diverges into strong hate speech / incitement. How do you think the Daily Mail still gets to exist?

(For context, my entire professional career has involved working with online communities much bigger than this one.)

 

[dingodan]

The mods are all over anything even vaguely close to liable like flies on shit. But they take a such a soft line on racism and posts with racist and xenophobic undertones.

Not saying they are wrong to be all over the libel stuff. But it would be nice to see them approach other areas with the same speed and zest.

Not sure I've ever seen a racist post on NSC, ever.

I've seen the accusation made countless times, but I've never seen anything which justifies it to be honest.

 

[Gwylan]

Not sure I've ever seen a racist post on NSC, ever.

I've seen the accusation made countless times, but I've never seen anything which justifies it to be honest.

It could be because they're removed pretty quickly. I saw one about two weeks ago. I reported it to the mods and it was gone within 30 minutes.

 

[Weststander]

Not sure I've ever seen a racist post on NSC, ever.

I've seen the accusation made countless times, but I've never seen anything which justifies it to be honest.

There were a few years back, blatant antisemitism, I believe the police made contact with [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]. Permanent bans were dished out, a lesson for all.

 

[Sheebo]

Not sure I've ever seen a racist post on NSC, ever.

I've seen the accusation made countless times, but I've never seen anything which justifies it to be honest.

[MENTION=23111]Dougie[/MENTION] the moron who spends his life here put a pic up of an Asian family at an Albion game - completely nothing picture, completely unprompted (so didn’t cover it up very well as she’s not very bright). Was asked several times what the purpose of the picture of, was even accused by a few that it was racist. Offered no replies to any like the coward ‘it’ is. Escaped any punishment - appalling.

Luckily for the piece of scum I haven’t forgotten - classic CPFC2010 behaviour. Coward.