Lucky, LUCKY England

[Rusthall Seagull]

Beckham crocked
Lampard crocked

THE BEST THING TO HAVE HAPPENED FOR FIVE YEARS

Well f*** ME if old Gingerflaps didn't have to muster up a few alternatives. and he has come up smelling of ROSES. I'll be the first to admit here, I GROANED when I heard about the inclusion of Heskey. But no two ways about it, that has been a MASTERSTROKE by McLaren. Owen is statistically at his most prolific when paired with a targetman - he gets a goal a game when with Heskey or Crouch, a goal every 270 mins when he is with Rooney. That is FACT. So credit where credit is due. McLarens hand has been forced by his two SUPERSTAR midfielders and Rooney being unavailable, and the team is positively FLOURISHING in their absence.

I've not wanted Beckham anywhere NEAR the team for a while now, and I would not have dropped Rooney lightly. But I've been GAGGING for the Gerrard/Lampard combo to be aborted for years, and the penny might just be dropping now. We look solid, cohesive, inventive and threatening. The old guard simply CANNOT be considered an automatic shoe-in into the team. Its been crying out for drastic change. and injury/suspension has just landed Gingerminge with a balanced team that can really take this country FORWARD.

If Lampard or Beckham are in the starting lineup in the next International, I am going to have a severe spackattack the likes of which you will not have seen on here before.

Would agree with most of that, however, I still think Beckham has enough about him to be in the England squad....he does offer something different and I think he is a good player to have on the bench. He is a guy that can come on and deliver a killer pass or a great free kick in a tight game.

I think that international football is all about having different options - and he is most certainly one

 

[Easy 10]

Mclaren will make 2 changes for the next game in my opinion.

Rooney for Heskey
Hargreaves for Barry.

If he does, he is an idiot.

 

[Brovion]

Mclaren will make 2 changes for the next game in my opinion.

Rooney for Heskey
Hargreaves for Barry.

If he does make those changes, just because individually they're better players, then he's a fool. He's got to be 100% certain it will improve the team.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Terry was just as bad, he was caught out of postion a couple of times.

But I bet he still got an 8 in the Terry loving media

have to agree with that - Ferdinand was poor yesterday, but Terry was even worse. He is positionally awful, he has little pace and is certainly not worthy of being captain.

 

[Marshy]

As i said earlier.....get ready for your spack attack.
You know its going to happen.

 

[Marshy]

As for people having a pop at our Defence...i really dont understand that either.

Sure defenders get caught out of position form time to time and get away with things.
But yet again our defensive record is second to none.

We have conceded only 2 goals in qualification, less than any other nation and one of those was a bobble over Robinsons foot.

Defence is the least of my concerns.

 

[Easy 10]

Would agree with most of that, however, I still think Beckham has enough about him to be in the England squad....he does offer something different and I think he is a good player to have on the bench. He is a guy that can come on and deliver a killer pass or a great free kick in a tight game.

I think that international football is all about having different options - and he is most certainly one

And I would also agree with that.
Beckham is unquestionably a talented player who is capable of coming on and giving us something different. But he is (at best) just a squad player now, no way should he be starting ahead of SWP. Hopefully Bentley and Lennon will be the other pacey options down the right in the years to come, but the days of Beckham starting for England must now be consigned to the history books. We are just too one-dimensional and predictable with him in the side.

 

[MattBackHome]

Greece won Euro 04 with lesser names all over the park.

Furthermore, France won WC 98 (admittedly on home soil) with Dugarry up front and no-one else to speak of...Henry was playing down the flank rather than striker and was not at the time the player he went on to be, anyway.

Both of those teams were, in their own way, tactically brilliant - and we are not and will never be under the current coach.

Whether or not Heskey gets dropped, recalling Becks or Lamps is an irrelevance (apart from the quality of viewing!) in the big picture, which shows all too clearly that we are destined for more mediocrity - until the luckiest, smuggest and reddest man in Soho Sq is ousted.

 

[The Large One]

I agree with what your saying Easy, but really/honestly we are not going to beat top nations and win tournaments with the likes of Heskey and Barry in our starting 11.

Its as simple as that.

Rooney and Owen its still a must.

I can't hlep feeling that you're falling into the trap of believing that the best players automatically make the best teams. There are many examples of proving that that is not necessarily the case.

Heskey and Owen work together better than Rooney and Owen. Yes, Rooney is an extemely talented individual, but that counts for little if it means sacrificing an effective partnership. Owen played as well for England as we've seen him play since possibly Euro 2000. Why? Because Heskey frees up Owen's role by taking defenders with him.

In other words, Heskey is your classic lumbering English No.9 centre forward, who leads the line for others to feed off him. That is not what Rooney does. He plays off said target man, which is fine if you're playing that style. But, in order for Rooney to play that role, you'd have to drop Owen. The only way Rooney would be an automatic starter is if McLaren changed the system, which at the present time would be madness.

For the past two games, we've played classic 4-4-2 (something all the players are familiar with), and it's worked really well. If it ain't broke etc...

 

[Easy 10]

I agree with what your saying Easy, but really/honestly we are not going to beat top nations and win tournaments with the likes of Heskey and Barry in our starting 11.

Its as simple as that.

Well we;ve tried your way (ie putting what we perceive to be the eleven best, big-name players on the pitch in various positions and hoping they perform), and where has THAT got us ?

Why not try this new idea instead. Pound for pound, Heskey is nowhere NEAR as talented as Rooney, and Barry would never be considered a superior midfielder to Lampard - the clubs they play for and the size of their weekly wage would tell you that. But they don;t half seem to mould into a more effective team. As a UNIT, I;ve rarely seen England look so good over two consecutive games, if ever.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Originally Posted by Marshy
I agree with what your saying Easy, but really/honestly we are not going to beat top nations and win tournaments with the likes of Heskey and Barry in our starting 11.

Its as simple as that.

Rooney and Owen its still a must




we have not done too well with them

 

[Yoda]

Hang on a poxy f***ing minute. There are some people on here who must have really short memories.

Can we go back 5-6 years when Heskey & Owen played up front in Qualifying & the World Cup together? They played so well as a strike partnership that we could have f***ing WON the bloody tournament that year had it not been for the fact we came up against Brazil in the quarters and got knocked out by a fluke of a goal.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Barry would never be considered a superior midfielder to Lampard - the clubs they play for and the size of their weekly wage would tell you that.QUOTE]

Thats the problem I think, the likes of Lampard think they are the dogs because they play for big clubs.

 

[MattBackHome]

Hang on a poxy f***ing minute. There are some people on here who must have really short memories.

Can we go back 5-6 years when Heskey & Owen played up front in Qualifying & the World Cup together? They played so well as a strike partnership that we could have f***ing WON the bloody tournament that year had it not been for the fact we came up against Brazil in the quarters and got knocked out by a fluke of a goal.

You make your own luck.

(do you?)

 

[pasty]

Mclaren will make 2 changes for the next game in my opinion.

Rooney for Heskey
Hargreaves for Barry.

And probably (if he's fit), one that has been overlooked thus far on this thread, G Neville in for Micah Richards.

 

[Marshy]

I dont think Owen and Rooney have played together in a tournament where both if either have been anywhere near 100% fit.
As i said earlier the last time they were would have been that awesome display against Argentina game prior to the world cup when i think everyone would agree there would have been no disussion if Rooney and Owen was the right combination.

Sadly injuries too both these players since then stopped what was was promising/turning into an effective partnership.

As for the assumption i want 11 big name players....please
Im not after the recall of Beckham or Lampard for that matter.
SWP should retain his place and in my opinion Hargreaves should come in for Barry.
Thus retaining the shape of the side.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

McLaren's position is a luxury. He has genuine competition for places. Probably the only three people that can be sure of a place in the starting line up are Owen, Terry and Gerrard. Therefore he can pick the players that are playing well, those that are on form and those that gel together.

What he does have to do though is manage. He can't just stick with the same team just because they won, even if some of the players form has dropped of or because the Sun says he would be mad to.

 

[Easy 10]

What has Barry done to warrant being dropped in favour of Hargreaves then Marshy ?

 

[Simster]

Furthermore, France won WC 98 (admittedly on home soil) with Dugarry up front and no-one else to speak of...Henry was playing down the flank rather than striker and was not at the time the player he went on to be, anyway.

You never know what a really good TEAM can achieve.

Hard to believe Stephane Guiv'arch was keeping Henry from a strikers position!

i seem to recall our most immpressive performance of recent times in my opinion, the victory over Argentina prior to the world cup coming with Owen and Rooney upfront.

Both were sensational on the day, against top class opposition.

I seem to recall another impressive performance in recent times, the 5-1 AWAY victory over Germany prior to the world cup coming with Owen and Heskey upfront.

Both were sensational on the day, against top class opposition. And we scored FIVE.

As for people having a pop at our Defence...i really dont understand that either.

Sure defenders get caught out of position form time to time and get away with things.
But yet again our defensive record is second to none.

We have conceded only 2 goals in qualification, less than any other nation and one of those was a bobble over Robinsons foot.

Defence is the least of my concerns.

You're spot on there. People make a right FUSS over our defence when the truth is that we're quite solid in that department. Terry and Ferdinand are both perfectly acceptable defenders.

 

[The Large One]

SWP should retain his place and in my opinion Hargreaves should come in for Barry.
Thus retaining the shape of the side.

Would it?