Lucky, LUCKY England

[Marshy]

The notion that Rooney dosent come straight back into the side baffles and bewilders me.
He simply has to play as does Owen.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The notion that Rooney dosent come straight back into the side baffles and bewilders me.
He simply has to play as does Owen.

But why?

If anyone else had his scoring record they would be hounded out - would Brazil play a striker that hasnt scored for three years?

 

[Easy 10]

The notion that Rooney dosent come straight back into the side baffles and bewilders me.
He simply has to play as does Owen.

Why ?
Because Sky Sports cream themselves over everything Rooney does ? I think we have all forgotten that football is a TEAM game - you cannot just blindly select the most talented individuals, throw them on the pitch and hope those individuals make a team. I;m as guilty as anyone else in believing that Rooney and Owen MUST play when both fit. But this week, I;ve changed my mind - or rather I;ve had it changed FOR me. Owen is Englands most valuable player, and finding a partner and a system that gets the best out of him HAS to be the priority.

If that means sacrificing Rooney for Heskey, then so be it. Unbelievable I know, but I saw it with my own two eyes. Add in the loss of Lampard and Beckham, and all of a sudden we are looking like a TEAM for the first time in years. Why throw that away for the sake of bringing back the so-called BIG names ?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Why ?
Because Sky Sports cream themselves over everything Rooney does ? I think we have all forgotten that football is a TEAM game - you cannot just blindly select the most talented individuals, throw them on the pitch and hope those individuals make a team. I;m as guilty as anyone else in believing that Rooney and Owen MUST play when both fit. But this week, I;ve changed my mind - or rather I;ve had it changed FOR me. Owen is Englands most valuable player, and finding a partner and a system that gets the best out of him HAS to be the priority.

QUOTE]


Yep cant disagree

 

[MattBackHome]

More pertinently, we've got to get Rio the f*** away from the starting lineup. A better opposition (and a decision or two the other way) would have pushed us to the wire yesterday, largely due to (IMO) Rio being inadequate. I don't care if he did score.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I also think having playing like Rooney and Beckham on the BENCH will give us added threat in the closing stages when chasing games. Bringing the likes of Rooney, Lennon, Beckham etc off the bench will give us an added dimension.

We NEED to put the same side out that we did last night, I just hope McLaren is strong enough to leave out the Rooney and Lamps who don't like sitting on the bench.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

More pertinently, we've got to get Rio the f*** away from the starting lineup. A better opposition (and a decision or two the other way) would have pushed us to the wire yesterday, largely due to (IMO) Rio being inadequate. I don't care if he did score.

Terry was just as bad, he was caught out of postion a couple of times.

But I bet he still got an 8 in the Terry loving media

 

[Marshy]

i seem to recall our most immpressive performance of recent times in my opinion, the victory over Argentina prior to the world cup coming with Owen and Rooney upfront.

Both were sensational on the day, against top class opposition.

Depsite the immpressive last 2 performances, Israel and Russia are 2nd teir footballing nations, who we should be destroying as we did especially at home.
People are getting abit carried away i think.

Come the big games against real top class opposition the likes of Heskey and Barry for that matter will get found out, and thats when you will realise the Rooney's of this world are and should be nailed on starters for England

I admit its hard to dismiss the performances of the likes of Heskey and Barry in the last couple of games but thats the way it is in my opinion.

 

[MattBackHome]

i seem to recall our most immpressive performance of recent times in my opinion, the victory over Argentina prior to the world cup coming with Owen and Rooney upfront.

Both were sensational on the day, against top class opposition.

Depsite the immpressive last 2 performances, Israel and Russia are 2nd teir footballing nations, who we should be destroying as we did especially at home.
People are getting abit carried away i think.

Come the big games against real top class opposition the likes of Heskey and Barry for that matter will get found out, and thats when you will realise the Ronney's of this world are and should be nailed on starters for England

I admit its hard to dismiss the performances of the likes of Heskey and Barry in the last couple of games but thats the way it is in my opinion.

I agree, to some extent. Playing to a Heskey/Owen style will get results against most teams, but realistically will not win us tournaments. The question is do we play to get to quarters and semis? If so stick with Ivanhoe. If we want to unlock, outplay and actually BEAT teams like Argentina (i.e. WIN tournaments) we need more quality - and that includes a coach that can build a winning team that includes Rooney and Owen (and not Rio). That coach is NOT McClaren. The jammy sod.

 

[Easy 10]

Depsite the immpressive last 2 performances, Israel and Russia are 2nd teir footballing nations, who we should be destroying as we did especially at home.

SHOULD be destroying, perhaps. But how many times have we struggled against such opposition and laboured to get a result ? And its all well and good picking out a good performance against Argentina as evidence of Rooney HAVING to play, but there have been umpteen games where we have still looked impotent with Rooney in the team (Macedonia anyone ?).

The important thing is NOT just packing the side with the big, glamarous, high-profile names and HOPING they perform. Its finding a formula that creates an effective TEAM. If that means the likes of Rooney, Lampard and Beckham are benched, then so be it.

 

[Marshy]

SHOULD be destroying, perhaps. But how many times have we struggled against such opposition and laboured to get a result ? And its all well and good picking out a good performance against Argentina as evidence of Rooney HAVING to play, but there have been umpteen games where we have still looked impotent with Rooney in the team (Macedonia anyone ?).

The important thing is NOT just packing the side with the big, glamarous, high-profile names and HOPING they perform. Its finding a formula that creates an effective TEAM. If that means the likes of Rooney, Lampard and Beckham are benched, then so be it.

I agree with what your saying Easy, but really/honestly we are not going to beat top nations and win tournaments with the likes of Heskey and Barry in our starting 11.

Its as simple as that.

Rooney and Owen its still a must.

 

[andybaha]

The best England team will not be made up of the best eleven players in the country. It will consist of the best eleven players that compliment each other and play together as a team. The eleven that played Sat and last night were the best we have seen for a while.

Brave decisions to be made, but I don't think any player has an automatic right to a place in the team. To take things to an extreme, back in the 70s we had two world class goalies in Clemence and Shilton. We didn't play Clemence in goal and Shilton at right back so as not to upset one of them.

The only time we've ever won anything was when Ramsey was brave enough to sacrifice Greaves for the sake of the team.

 

[Captain Haddock]

Agree with everything Easy wrote on this subject...well worded and well argued.

Gerrard and Lampard DO NOT play well together. I've called for McClaren's head before these two games and for now I'm sticking by it. He very recently reiterated the untruth that SG and Lamps can play together. Can? Possibly but very unlikely. Do? Never!

He would've followed his guru SGE in picking names ahead of form and ignoring the likes of Barry and SWP, had we been at full strength. Of that we can be sure.

The question from me now is: Having got lucky with injuries forcing his hand, and him pulling off an admitedly inspired masterstroke in recalling Heskey (I was a shocked as Easy by his performances these last few days), will McClaren show true mettle and stick to the winning TEAM / formula? (availability allowing, of course).

He's passed the first test yesterday by sticking with EH over Crouch. We'll see. The problem is we're up against Estonia next so we'd most likely beat them regardless, so McC won't likely get pilloried for playing Roon, Lamps, Becks etc but then we'd go to Russia with the same 'names' in the starting line-up for a must not lose game and get stung. Hope this doesn't happen!

P.S I lay the blame for the Carragher situation firmly at the doors of Sven and McClaren House!


However, I should finish on a high note and say well done to all the team (and the manager) on the results and PERFORMANCES over the last few days.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I agree with the concept that sometimes you don't necessarily play all the 'best' players, in order to achieve a better balance and team. It's something England managers have ducked and shied away from when it's so obvious, Brazil have been doing it for years.

But while I'd apply that to Lampard/Gerrard in midfield, which for months has been shown not to work, ideally I'd still want Rooney in the line-up. If he's fit, maybe leave him out fo the next one just to send a little message to him and reward Heskey - then unleash him for the last two.

 

[Brovion]

I must admit that I'd always considered Rooney to be the cream of the crop. Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, both Coles, both Nevilles, Terry and Ferdinand I can take or leave - none of them would get into an all-time England XI. But I always thought Rooney was a bit special

But I cannot understand this whole "if he's available then he must play" philosophy. Why? Just because taken as an individual he's a better player than Heskey? As has been pointed out football's a team game, and the eleven best individuals don't necessarily make the best team - and a good team will beat 11 individual superstars every time.

I'm not saying that Heskey SHOULD play instead of Rooney, but it's not the no-brainer it would have appeared to be a year ago.

 

[Brovion]

I agree with what your saying Easy, but really/honestly we are not going to beat top nations and win tournaments with the likes of Heskey and Barry in our starting 11.

Yes we can. Greece did it last time with arguably worse players than we have now.

 

[Captain Haddock]

The best England team will not be made up of the best eleven players in the country. It will consist of the best eleven players that compliment each other and play together as a team. The eleven that played Sat and last night were the best we have seen for a while.

Brave decisions to be made, but I don't think any player has an automatic right to a place in the team. To take things to an extreme, back in the 70s we had two world class goalies in Clemence and Shilton. We didn't play Clemence in goal and Shilton at right back so as not to upset one of them.

The only time we've ever won anything was when Ramsey was brave enough to sacrifice Greaves for the sake of the team.

Spot on! The team's the thing. I also firmly believe in keeping the shirt if you play well. If it ain't broke etc etc.

 

[Marshy]

Mclaren will make 2 changes for the next game in my opinion.

Rooney for Heskey
Hargreaves for Barry.

 

[British Bulldog]

I suppose it all goes back to the last time England won something in 1966, Did Alf Ramsey pick the best 11 players for the final or the 11 who could play as a team?

 

[Captain Haddock]

Greece won Euro 04 with lesser names all over the park.

Furthermore, France won WC 98 (admittedly on home soil) with Dugarry up front and no-one else to speak of...Henry was playing down the flank rather than striker and was not at the time the player he went on to be, anyway.

You never know what a really good TEAM can achieve.