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Lower league Pompey
- Thread starter pornomagboy
- Start date
Mutts Nuts
New member
- Oct 30, 2011
- 4,918
Will that leave our club out of pocket or have we not given them there gate money yet?
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
Couldn't we sell them directly to the fans without involving the thieving club?
Mutts Nuts
New member
- Oct 30, 2011
- 4,918
Thats what reading are doing , seems we did not think of that
Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!
Primary data is fact
A business in administration cannot trade on an insolvent basis - ie the court appointed Administrators can't run up debts that are not covered. It's only the pre-administration debts that are ring-fenced, any PAYE, VAT etc etc incurred subsequently have to be paid.
This has been posted by "splodge" on the Non-League Matters Forum:
Police are investigating an incident on Saturday when Pompey manager Michael Appleton was struck on the head by a £2 coin.
They are currently unsure whether to treat it as assault or a takeover bid
Police are investigating an incident on Saturday when Pompey manager Michael Appleton was struck on the head by a £2 coin.
They are currently unsure whether to treat it as assault or a takeover bid
The Large One
Who's Next?
Of course we did.
One of the issues being that the Albion don't - or didn't - have access to Portsmouth's database. There are a number of contingencies in the pipeline for a whole host of scenarios, but because the Albion didn't (I'm talking from a conversation I had on Saturday) have the guarantees from PFC, things were a bit up in the air.
The f***-up on the trains isn't helping either.
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
I assume we wont be sending ANY tickets down to Pompey until the funds have cleared into our account.
Mutts Nuts
New member
- Oct 30, 2011
- 4,918
Would be the next best thing to pay on the gate.
severnside gull
Well-known member
Sad commentary from the administrator.......................
Birch also reiterated concerns that the club may not have enough money to get them through until the end of the season.
"Unless something significant happens, there is a real possibility that we may not be able to fulfil the season’s fixtures. We're down to the wire now.
He also revealed that money owed to creditors under any previous agreements will now be even more diminished than first promised.
"The CVA pays creditors a percentage in the pound. The CVA that was performed here at Portsmouth was giving them 20p in the pound, but obviously that has now failed and they will receive nothing from that. Out of this administration it will either be another CVA or a liquidation, and a dividend will be paid again. Basically you are getting a dividend upon a dividend. If this administration pays a 20p dividend, for example, creditors will be paid a 20p dividend on a 20p dividend. in round terms, that will be four pence."
In light of 30 members of staff being made redundant in February, Birch stated that HM Revenue and Customs are currently challenging a Premier League and Football League bill that ensures unpaid players are allotted money first. "The so-called football creditor rule is under attack at the moment by HMRC and we're waiting for a verdict on that case. It might mean that if the rule is scrapped the players will become part of the general body of creditors and not get this preferential treatment."
Birch also admitted that he is at a loss as to how Portsmouth have got themselves into such a dire situation. "The club is in a default position. It is left with a foot-print around the stadium that they don't own, they don't own the training ground and they don't own the academy. It leaves you asking 'where has it all gone?', and I can't answer that question."
FOUR pence in the pound on existing debts and they carry on regardless
Birch also reiterated concerns that the club may not have enough money to get them through until the end of the season.
"Unless something significant happens, there is a real possibility that we may not be able to fulfil the season’s fixtures. We're down to the wire now.
He also revealed that money owed to creditors under any previous agreements will now be even more diminished than first promised.
"The CVA pays creditors a percentage in the pound. The CVA that was performed here at Portsmouth was giving them 20p in the pound, but obviously that has now failed and they will receive nothing from that. Out of this administration it will either be another CVA or a liquidation, and a dividend will be paid again. Basically you are getting a dividend upon a dividend. If this administration pays a 20p dividend, for example, creditors will be paid a 20p dividend on a 20p dividend. in round terms, that will be four pence."
In light of 30 members of staff being made redundant in February, Birch stated that HM Revenue and Customs are currently challenging a Premier League and Football League bill that ensures unpaid players are allotted money first. "The so-called football creditor rule is under attack at the moment by HMRC and we're waiting for a verdict on that case. It might mean that if the rule is scrapped the players will become part of the general body of creditors and not get this preferential treatment."
Birch also admitted that he is at a loss as to how Portsmouth have got themselves into such a dire situation. "The club is in a default position. It is left with a foot-print around the stadium that they don't own, they don't own the training ground and they don't own the academy. It leaves you asking 'where has it all gone?', and I can't answer that question."
FOUR pence in the pound on existing debts and they carry on regardless
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
I asked on the other thread, but how can they escape further sanctions of they are basically defaulting on the original CVA?
That four pence is only an example of the maths, isn't it? It could be lower if the second dividend is 10p they may only have to pay 2p in the pound or if the second is 40p, it owuld be 8p in the pound. It will all depend on what is negotiated, no?
severnside gull
Well-known member
Two threads today on which to plot and record the imminent demise of the once great (best supporters in the land) Portsmouth football club, and a very valid point indeed from Papa Lazarou.
Football League regulations require that a club exiting administration "must do so via a valid CVA".
My current reading of the stuation is that the current CVA, agreed a year ago, doesn't fail until the club formally default on payments under it.
This event will occur in April when the first scheduled payments under that CVA are due to be made. At that point I am guessing that the FL could unilaterally decide that the basic requirement (exiting admin via a valid CVA) has failed and they could - under their existing rules - impose a further penalty/points deduction. This would effectively seal relegation.
However, they might be conscious that Portsmouth would challenge such a decision and the challenge could drag on into next season. If this is a concern they might elect to "wait and see", possibly with the thought that Portsmouth are probably going down anyway and a post-season deduction of points could apply to next season as a more fitting penalty and could be agreed by the annual meeting of the league's club chairmen (making a challenge more difficult).
Failing the League acting in April when the old CVA fails there is the possibility that they could be petitioned by football creditors but this seems unlikely as the summer chairmens' annual meeting provides an adequate and timely opportunity.
Failing the demise of the old CVA there is also the possibility that the agreement of a new CVA might be the trigger for potential sanctions as this would be a clearly defined point where the old agreement could have been said to have failed.
There is a third "opportunity" for the league to act and that is if the club fail to agree a new CVA before the start of next season. Based on past precedent the League would, in those circumstances, threaten to withold their "Golden Share" in PFC, the (FL controlled) factor which effectively allows a club to compete in the league. The golden share would only be released if the club agree to sanctions on a "no appeal" basis. This is obviously a useful route for the FL to follow as, should the club decline an agreement, they will simply not be permitted to compete in the League and would have no legal redress.
Sorry if it is all a bit complicated and I haven't explained very well but whichever way it now goes Portsmouth will almost certainly suffer more than one points deduction. It is only the timing that varies but my guess is something like this...................................
Now - enter admin and minus 10 points
April - default on CVA
May - survive the season and get relegated
July - 15 to 20 points deduction at start of next season in League 1 for the original default
or
July - if they do not have a new buyer and cannot agree a CVA, a further 15 points deduction (total 30/35)
or
July - if they remain insolvent - closure and reforming in the Conference South
Of the July options I would think the first and last the most likely
Football League regulations require that a club exiting administration "must do so via a valid CVA".
My current reading of the stuation is that the current CVA, agreed a year ago, doesn't fail until the club formally default on payments under it.
This event will occur in April when the first scheduled payments under that CVA are due to be made. At that point I am guessing that the FL could unilaterally decide that the basic requirement (exiting admin via a valid CVA) has failed and they could - under their existing rules - impose a further penalty/points deduction. This would effectively seal relegation.
However, they might be conscious that Portsmouth would challenge such a decision and the challenge could drag on into next season. If this is a concern they might elect to "wait and see", possibly with the thought that Portsmouth are probably going down anyway and a post-season deduction of points could apply to next season as a more fitting penalty and could be agreed by the annual meeting of the league's club chairmen (making a challenge more difficult).
Failing the League acting in April when the old CVA fails there is the possibility that they could be petitioned by football creditors but this seems unlikely as the summer chairmens' annual meeting provides an adequate and timely opportunity.
Failing the demise of the old CVA there is also the possibility that the agreement of a new CVA might be the trigger for potential sanctions as this would be a clearly defined point where the old agreement could have been said to have failed.
There is a third "opportunity" for the league to act and that is if the club fail to agree a new CVA before the start of next season. Based on past precedent the League would, in those circumstances, threaten to withold their "Golden Share" in PFC, the (FL controlled) factor which effectively allows a club to compete in the league. The golden share would only be released if the club agree to sanctions on a "no appeal" basis. This is obviously a useful route for the FL to follow as, should the club decline an agreement, they will simply not be permitted to compete in the League and would have no legal redress.
Sorry if it is all a bit complicated and I haven't explained very well but whichever way it now goes Portsmouth will almost certainly suffer more than one points deduction. It is only the timing that varies but my guess is something like this...................................
Now - enter admin and minus 10 points
April - default on CVA
May - survive the season and get relegated
July - 15 to 20 points deduction at start of next season in League 1 for the original default
or
July - if they do not have a new buyer and cannot agree a CVA, a further 15 points deduction (total 30/35)
or
July - if they remain insolvent - closure and reforming in the Conference South
Of the July options I would think the first and last the most likely
Last edited:
severnside gull
Well-known member
If, under the new CVA, they pay 100p in the pound on the first CVA and a lesser amount on subsequent debts then the first CVA could be said to still be effectively in place - could happen and yes the 4p is just a number for now
Is it wrong that, as an Albion fan who has seen our club struggle so much and come so close to the end ourselves (although under different circumstances, of course) and also as a full supporter of the Fans United movement, I feel so little sympathy for Portsmouth and would not really mourn their loss if it comes to that?
Simple answer - NO. They've had more than one chance to put their house in order.
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
I guess many feel sympathy for many of the fans, but not the 'club' as a whole.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
I find it hilarious that the previous administrator managed to arrange £2.2M of the parachute payments would be paid to Gaydamak as the sweetener to get him to accept the CVA. Looks like one of the secured creditors has got all the dosh and the rest won't see their expected share from the £2.2M. Trevor Birch was going to use the funding to keep the club going but looks like he'll be whistling for it , just like the £300k being held by the previous administrators who are currently working out their costs (we already know the bill is going to be £300k 
)
)
Its hard to feel sympathy, for people who as yet have not actually endured ANY suffering. What are we supposed to feel sympathy FOR?