[Football] Liverpool and Manchester United lead ‘European League’ breakout league idea

[Triggaaar]

Dropping the idea is first step I agree as whatever we think of these clubs they have genuine fans who respect the history and are gutted by this move.

What concerns me about these owners though is this is not the first time they have acted in this way as our own statement highlighted

‘These plans are the latest in an alarming and growing list of clandestine attempts from a small group of clubs’

If this can be blocked then meaningful action needs to be made to punish this and legislation and changes made to prevent these rogue breakaways. Otherwise we will be dealing with the next attempt to undermine the English game in another 6 months time

Well the 14 clubs seem to agree with you. Reject the idea, and also put in something to stop it happening in the future.

I honestly cannot see how this would be a financial success if they had to leave the PL, and if they're not sent the remaining top 5 clubs from Europe each year. And I can't see why they'd be allowed to stay, and get sent those clubs. It appears to me to be a non starter. Which suggests that the owners are extremely clueless about football in Europe. That comes as a surprise to me, but there we are.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Well the 14 clubs seem to agree with you. Reject the idea, and also put in something to stop it happening in the future.

I honestly cannot see how this would be a financial success if they had to leave the PL, and if they're not sent the remaining top 5 clubs from Europe each year. And I can't see why they'd be allowed to stay, and get sent those clubs. It appears to me to be a non starter. Which suggests that the owners are extremely clueless about football in Europe. That comes as a surprise to me, but there we are.

The owners are incredibly dim or they have already included the meltdown in their plans.

They have surely work out each potential action brought against them and if it’s legally possible.

 

[Mancgull]

The 6 globetrotter clubs need to be given until May 24th ( end of season ) to reject the ESL or be chucked out of the PL.

That would cost the albion a massive amount of money but.... we are in a good place. Sell a Bissouma or a White, re-group, and than onwards into a lower-money PL and perhaps CL/EL football.

It seems like an excellent long term win for us outside the franchise exhibition match circus.

I agree that they need to be given a timeframe to opt out and the end of the season is probably right as it means we can end the season properly. However, if they don’t, then Chuck them out of the Premier League right there and then. Also if any of them are in the Champions League final replace them with the highest ranked non ESL team.

 

[wardy wonder land]

It threatens the players income that's why. The clubs who service their debt (that pays their wages) by the promise of ongoing high TV revenue generated by the global premier league audience could be in a whole world of trouble should the international TV audience head off into the sunset.

RESET PART 2 - imagine if the big 6 are booted out at end of the season, come June all the players will have become free agents overnight !

120-140 players up for grabs

a brilliant 1-off DRAFT for the remaining 14 (+ promoted teams) to rejig thier playing squads

 

[lawros left foot]

The Premier League's rule L9, expressly states: "Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during a Season a Club shall not enter or play it's senior men's first team in any other competition than: the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Europa League, the F.A.Cup, and the League Cup.

So how do hot shot ESL lawyers get round this.
Seems pretty unequivocal to me.

 

[rogersix]

Yep. Personally I don't think you can really enter a competition that doesn't yet exist. Something for the courts to decide should it come to that.

But I don't think kicking them out now helps achieve the goal of what we really want. I'd think that most fans want them to simply drop the idea, and we'll carry on as we were. That won't be possible if they're immediately kicked out. That, IMO, would be a pointless over-reaction.

I'm quite confident the ESL would fail if the clubs had to leave their respective leagues, and no teams joined them each year. And since it would fail, I'm fairly confident those teams would drop the idea if they weren't allowed to do both.

Wouldn't we want to keep it as it is, except the TV money to be evenly distributed to make each league more competitive?

 

[blue-shifted]

The Premier League's rule L9, expressly states: "Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during a Season a Club shall not enter or play it's senior men's first team in any other competition than: the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Europa League, the F.A.Cup, and the League Cup.

So how do hot shot ESL lawyers get round this.
Seems pretty unequivocal to me.

Well they can't get out of it legally.

But they can do it anyway and accept whatever sanction comes their way. My guess is that the sanction will fall well short of expulsion.

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[Mancgull]

Interesting that Amazon Prime have now made an announcement (look at BBC website) saying that they are having nothing to do with the ESL. Times are changing with big Corporates due to their investors demanding they consider their environmental and social governance (ESG).
This is what will be making JP Morgan start asking questions internally as they could see their brand impacted negatively by their association with the ESL.
Once big business distances itself from ESL, they are f@cked.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

The Premier League's rule L9, expressly states: "Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during a Season a Club shall not enter or play it's senior men's first team in any other competition than: the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Europa League, the F.A.Cup, and the League Cup.

So how do hot shot ESL lawyers get round this.
Seems pretty unequivocal to me.

Yes but do the rules provide for what happens in the event of a breach? If not then it seems a breach of contract damages claim, which might lead to some interesting arguments on causation and would likely be settled. A contract is only an agreement, it's not "the (criminal) law". As such they probably have decided that it's worth the pay off should they think it's likely to happen and if it doesn't happen it's just a damages claim and I can't see that the other clubs have suffered a loss (yet). They also envisage they wont be chucked out by the other clubs because the other clubs rely on Man United's global TV audience to pay their own players wages.

 

[Clive Walker]

Well they can't get out of it legally.

But they can do it anyway and accept whatever sanction comes their way. My guess is that the sanction will fall well short of expulsion.

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yep, sadly i agree. Expulsion is off the table. The PL, 14 good guys as well as the 6 bad guys all. equally know that the PL cannot survive in its current state without them.

 

[atomised]

Interesting that Amazon Prime have now made an announcement (look at BBC website) saying that they are having nothing to do with the ESL. Times are changing with big Corporates due to their investors demanding they consider their environmental and social governance (ESG).
This is what will be making JP Morgan start asking questions internally as they could see their brand impacted negatively by their association with the ESL.
Once big business distances itself from ESL, they are f@cked.

Unless of course these companies are distancing themselves because they know they can stick to that safe in the knowledge that the ESL has its broadcast partner lined up.

 

[Clive Walker]

Interesting that Amazon Prime have now made an announcement (look at BBC website) saying that they are having nothing to do with the ESL. Times are changing with big Corporates due to their investors demanding they consider their environmental and social governance (ESG).
This is what will be making JP Morgan start asking questions internally as they could see their brand impacted negatively by their association with the ESL.
Once big business distances itself from ESL, they are f@cked.

Rumour has it that an agreement in principle is already in place with a US Network and a Saudi Network. DAZN and/or Bein is all that is needed to have complete global domination. BT, Sky and Prime are only 3 of the many players out there.

 

[Altered State]

The ESL plan seems to rest on it running alongside the existing domestic competitions. That assumption must be shown to be wrong.

If the ESL fails, so does their business.

Any kind of negotiated, fudged agreement would be a disaster for our domestic football, as it would allow time for the ESL to get established with a safety net in place. And it's clear these greedy, bloodsucking, owners would abandon the PL as soon as they had no use for it. There's no reason to negotiate with them. They have overplayed their hand and now need to back down or get out.

Horrible for the 'legacy supporters' of the six, but there are precedents for supporters founding their own clubs when the mothership abandons them.

The six will be - probably already are - in breach of FA rules. They need to be given one strong message - do this and you are expelled.

 

[blue-shifted]

yep, sadly i agree. Expulsion is off the table. The PL, 14 good guys as well as the 6 bad guys all. equally know that the PL cannot survive in its current state without them.

I think there is likely to be a majority for expulsion. Not the unanimity required though. The big 6 only have to bribe one. They will be targeting the relegated clubs. They will offer loan players and large transfer fees for players who will never play

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[Jim in the West]

yep, sadly i agree. Expulsion is off the table. The PL, 14 good guys as well as the 6 bad guys all. equally know that the PL cannot survive in its current state without them.

It definitely won't survive in its current state WITH them. The ESL promises £200m a season for each club - vs max £70m from the Champions League. So suddenly six clubs become MASSIVELY more wealthy. They can hoover up all the talent. The Other 14 are left in a permanent battle to avoid relegation. Little chance of another Leicester (or even West Ham) upsetting the apple cart.

I'm sure currently the 14 want to keep the Big 6 in, but only if the ESL dies a death. If the ESL goes ahead, the Premier League would almost certainly be much better without them. There would be some adjustment, but there are big clubs in the Championship who would be great additions to the EPL (Nottm Forest, Derby, Sheff Utd, West Brom, Fulham [assuming the last 3 go down]).

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

The ESL plan seems to rest on it running alongside the existing domestic competitions. That assumption must be shown to be wrong.

If the ESL fails, so does their business.

Any kind of negotiated, fudged agreement would be a disaster for our domestic football, as it would allow time for the ESL to get established with a safety net in place. And it's clear these greedy, bloodsucking, owners would abandon the PL as soon as they had no use for it. There's no reason to negotiate with them. They have overplayed their hand and now need to back down or get out.

Horrible for the 'legacy supporters' of the six, but there are precedents for supporters founding their own clubs when the mothership abandons them.

The six will be - probably already are - in breach of FA rules. They need to be given one strong message - do this and you are expelled.

It's a difficult one for the remaining clubs however. Bottom line is that Man United's, Liverpool's and Chelsea's TV audience internationally pays for the rest of the clubs wages and debt levels. If United walked, sky pulled the plug, then most if not all of the rest (possibly us included, depending on how deep TB's pockets are) are possibly insolvent.

 

[Wozza]

Oooh, the drama!

The Sun says Paul Barber has spoken to Daniel Levy and the Spurs boss is spooked!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...m-chairman-daniel-levy-european-super-league/

 

[Clive Walker]

I think there is likely to be a majority for expulsion. Not the unanimity required though. The big 6 only have to bribe one. They will be targeting the relegated clubs. They will offer loan players and large transfer fees for players who will never play

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i don't think it's required. Something like 60% of sky sports subscriptions come from fans of the super 6. the 14 clubs know they need them to survive financially.

This is why the super 6 feel they have the muscle to make this move.

 

[blue-shifted]

The ESL plan seems to rest on it running alongside the existing domestic competitions. That assumption must be shown to be wrong.

If the ESL fails, so does their business.

Any kind of negotiated, fudged agreement would be a disaster for our domestic football, as it would allow time for the ESL to get established with a safety net in place. And it's clear these greedy, bloodsucking, owners would abandon the PL as soon as they had no use for it. There's no reason to negotiate with them. They have overplayed their hand and now need to back down or get out.

Horrible for the 'legacy supporters' of the six, but there are precedents for supporters founding their own clubs when the mothership abandons them.

The six will be - probably already are - in breach of FA rules. They need to be given one strong message - do this and you are expelled.

Agree with all this.

There are 3 chances to stop this.

Pl clubs expelling the 6 would cause man city or Chelsea to waver and that would collapse it.

Fifa and uefa banning players from internationals would collapse it.

The government putting effective legislation to stymie it, which stands up to the inevitable legal action will collapse it.

All 3 tough to achieve and would take unprecedented balls to carry through

My guess is that they will leave it to each other, blame the others and it will survive

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[Clive Walker]

It's a difficult one for the remaining clubs however. Bottom line is that Man United's, Liverpool's and Chelsea's TV audience internationally pays for the rest of the clubs wages and debt levels. If United walked, sky pulled the plug, then most if not all of the rest (possibly us included, depending on how deep TB's pockets are) are possibly insolvent.

this. harsh reality.