Lemmings: An Apology

[Stinky Kat]

I still beleive relegation can be avoided but if it does happen I think it would a disaster both for footballing and financial reasons, and an instant return to the Coca Cola Championship at the end of next season would be extremely unlikely.
Whilst Falmer has always been a priority I, amongst numerous others, have always gone on record as saying the playing side mustn't be neglected, I believe that this has been the case, all season the club have been a couple of players short of being a mid table outfit, which is why even at the 11th hour if the two players were to arrive the Albion could escape the drop.


Wise words Harty

 

[dougdeep]

Did someone say Lemmings? http://www.elizium.nu/scripts/lemmings/

 

[Les Biehn]

I don't think Harty should apologise. If he has opinions he should stick to them whether people on here agree with them or not.

 

[Bromley shrimp]

I still beleive relegation can be avoided but if it does happen I think it would a disaster both for footballing and financial reasons, and an instant return to the Coca Cola Championship at the end of next season would be extremely unlikely.
Whilst Falmer has always been a priority I, amongst numerous others, have always gone on record as saying the playing side mustn't be neglected, I believe that this has been the case, all season the club have been a couple of players short of being a mid table outfit, which is why even at the 11th hour if the two players were to arrive the Albion could escape the drop.


Wise words Harty

Falmer for All, but not at all costs. Agree 100% with Harty's comments - I used to think he was a rose-tinter.

Our cor business is about winning games, not running a nursery for the big boys to tap into for talent just to make money, which should otherwise be being generated from having a successful team.

It's about balancing priorities as, long term, the demands of the playing side are intricately linked with those of funding the new ground.

IMO the board have failed to adequately address the business of balancing these conflicting demands. Arguments continually offered about the lack of suitable players, either available or "wanting" to come here, albeit for a very limited period on loan, are no longer sustainable.

 

[London Irish]

I don't think Harty should apologise. If he has opinions he should stick to them whether people on here agree with them or not.

He's not apologising for his opinions though. Calling your fellow Albion fans "lemmings" is not an opinion, it's belittling name-calling. The general standards of this website may be so knockabout that stuff like that on here barely gets a second glance, but the BBC SCR guy (whether Harty or whoever) who does the phone-in on behalf of all fans should aim much, much higher than that, as he has a representative role on behalf of us all, and credit to Harty for looking towards higher standards.

I have mucho respect for Harty in that he listens to constructive criticism and will take it on board if he thinks it is fair, rather than digging holes and unnecessarily alienating people who he might have honest differences of opinion with

 

[magoo]

I still beleive relegation can be avoided

really? how many wins do we need? how many have we won all season?

 

[3gulls]

I apologise unreservedly to any Albion fan who I may have reffered to over the last few months as a Lemming, in that in their opinion relegation this season wouldn't be a disaster as we would bounce straight back up again next season.
Everybody has a right to have an opinion, its just in this case I have to disagree, unfortunatley or fortunately for me when I disagree with something 40,000 listeners get to hear it.
I still beleive relegation can be avoided but if it does happen I think it would a disaster both for footballing and financial reasons, and an instant return to the Coca Cola Championship at the end of next season would be extremely unlikely.
Whilst Falmer has always been a priority I, amongst numerous others, have always gone on record as saying the playing side mustn't be neglected, I believe that this has been the case, all season the club have been a couple of players short of being a mid table outfit, which is why even at the 11th hour if the two players were to arrive the Albion could escape the drop.
Its all about opinions and if we all thought the same thing, it would be very dull.

It is us as well as "the playing side" that is being neglected. We pay top money to see poor footaball week after week!

 

[Curious Orange]

Re: Re: Lemmings: An Apology

It is us as well as "the playing side" that is being neglected. We pay top money to see poor footaball week after week!

Actually, we see quite good football. Just very rarely winning football.

Harty is of course wrong to describe people like myself as Lemmings, so the apology is accepted.

I don't believe in it being doom and gloom if we get relegated, the club has been running on empty for years, so being in League One would make bugger-all difference financially. I wouldn't expect the crowds to significantly drop, as the Albion should actually start winning again with the side we have. But that is just my opinion, and as Greavsie always said "Saint, football is a funny old game" and we aren't relegated just yet.

 

[Lammy]

What am I if I think we WILL go down and WON'T bounce straight back but that it WON'T be a disaster?

 

[The Great Cornholio]

I have mucho respect for Harty in that he listens to constructive criticism and will take it on board if he thinks it is fair, rather than digging holes and unnecessarily alienating people who he might have honest differences of opinion with

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Did someone say Lemmings? http://www.elizium.nu/scripts/lemmings/

Thanks!! I was just about to ask for that link!

 

[Les Biehn]

He's not apologising for his opinions though. Calling your fellow Albion fans "lemmings" is not an opinion, it's belittling name-calling. The general standards of this website may be so knockabout that stuff like that on here barely gets a second glance, but the BBC SCR guy (whether Harty or whoever) who does the phone-in on behalf of all fans should aim much, much higher than that, as he has a representative role on behalf of us all, and credit to Harty for looking towards higher standards.

I have mucho respect for Harty in that he listens to constructive criticism and will take it on board if he thinks it is fair, rather than digging holes and unnecessarily alienating people who he might have honest differences of opinion with

f***ing hell LI, no wonder you get on people's tits. I actually think you have a lot of decent opinions but you say them in such a patronising and self-righteous way.

 

[Chicken Run]

He's not apologising for his opinions though. Calling your fellow Albion fans "lemmings" is not an opinion, it's belittling name-calling.

I have mucho respect for Harty in that he listens to constructive criticism and will take it on board if he thinks it is fair, rather than digging holes and unnecessarily alienating people who he might have honest differences of opinion with

I know you deliberatly posted that

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

f***ing hell LI, no wonder you get on people's tits. I actually think you have a lot of decent opinions but you say them in such a patronising and self-righteous way.

No no. Its Predictable AND patronising way.

 

[London Irish]

f***ing hell LI, no wonder you get on people's tits. I actually think you have a lot of decent opinions but you say them in such a patronising and self-righteous way.

Instead of going down the boring and brainless road of personal attacks Les, why not try and explain why you disagree with the points I made there?

 

[Les Biehn]

Instead of going down the boring and brainless road of personal attacks Les, why not try and explain why you disagree with the points I made there?

Oh well ok. Personally I don't think Lemmings is a particularly bad insult to start with and if was used to exemplify the point that many people (brighton fans) tend to jump on the band wagon (in my opinion both negative, ARS, and positive, relegation will cause hardly any impact) without really considering the facts, no matter the cost of the opinion they are vindicating. I don't think Harty was saying all fans who hold the opinion that relegation would see us bouncing back next year are Lemmings, just the ones who blindly see it this way without considering all the facts. Therefore I feel he was justifiably right to voice his opinion in this way. As a radio personality in the sporting arena, right or wrong, he needs to have a view, stick with it and justify it. Or he himself looks like he is mearly cow-towing to popular opinion.

 

[London Irish]

Oh well ok. Personally I don't think Lemmings is a particularly bad insult to start with and if was used to exemplify the point that many people (brighton fans) tend to jump on the band wagon (in my opinion both negative, ARS, and positive, relegation will cause hardly any impact) without really considering the facts, no matter the cost of the opinion they are vindicating. I don't think Harty was saying all fans who hold the opinion that relegation would see us bouncing back next year are Lemmings, just the ones who blindly see it this way without considering all the facts. Therefore I feel he was justifiably right to voice his opinion in this way. As a radio personality in the sporting arena, right or wrong, he needs to have a view, stick with it and justify it. Or he himself looks like he is mearly cow-towing to popular opinion.

Can I call you a Lemming then if I don't agree with the point you've just made there? You won't be offended?

If you're not offended, can I just call you "Lemming" instead of Les all the time? You see, it's quite a useful shorthand way for me to entirely dismiss your opinion rather than taking the time to explain how and why it's wrong.

 

[Les Biehn]

Can I call you a Lemming then if I don't agree with the point you've just made there? You won't be offended?

If you're not offended, can I just call you "Lemming" instead of Les all the time? You see, it's quite a useful shorthand way for me to entirely dismiss your opinion rather than taking the time to explain how and why it's wrong.

Call me a Lemming all you like, if your of such a delicate disposition that the word Lemming not even being specifically applied to you causes you that much offence then you really are quite an insecure individual (which would also explain your constant need to be right whether the other person disagrees with you or not).

We could argue this shit all day. I could say how a base insult clearly defines how the person feels on an emotional level, that is not necessarily wrong and doesn't need to be justified. You can then say how inarticulate it is and how it doesn't address the issue blah blah blah.

When the point is that I actually said your opinions hold some weight it was the way you said them. You then turned this round into one of your agenda orientated discourses on how your right and I'm wrong without addressing the issue at hand. Namely you’re an intelligent, well read individual who's views I often agree with, but you often use this intelligence and knowledge to make yourself look clever and belittle others. Having a lot of knowledge doesn't make you a smart or a nice person. Now I am not saying you're not a nice person (because I think you probably are), but you are elitist and you do like to talk down to others. Sometimes the opinion with worth is the most considered, whether the person knows more or not, not the one that has the most intellectual weight and uses it for its own agenda.

 

[London Irish]

Call me a Lemming all you like, if your of such a delicate disposition that the word Lemming not even being specifically applied to you causes you that much offence then you really are quite an insecure individual (which would also explain your constant need to be right whether the other person disagrees with you or not).

We could argue this shit all day. I could say how a base insult clearly defines how the person feels on an emotional level, that is not necessarily wrong and doesn't need to be justified. You can then say how inarticulate it is and how it doesn't address the issue blah blah blah.

When the point is that I actually said your opinions hold some weight it was the way you said them. You then turned this round into one of your agenda orientated discourses on how your right and I'm wrong without addressing the issue at hand. Namely you’re an intelligent, well read individual who's views I often agree with, but you often use this intelligence and knowledge to make yourself look clever and belittle others. Having a lot of knowledge doesn't make you a smart or a nice person. Now I am not saying you're not a nice person (because I think you probably are), but you are elitist and you do like to talk down to others. Sometimes the opinion with worth is the most considered, whether the person knows more or not, not the one that has the most intellectual weight and uses it for its own agenda.

You've just gone back into an extended personal attack on me (I'm insecure blah blah blah) again, rather than focus on the discussion we were having about whether it's appropriate for a BBC phone-in host to use playground put-downs to caricature the opinions of Albion fans that he disagrees with.

Have you lost interest in that discussion entirely or do you want to carry it on?

I am tempted to call your bluff though and call you Lemming on NSC from now on I wonder how long your even temper would last if I did that?

 

[Les Biehn]

You've just gone back into an extended personal attack on me again, rather than focus on the discussion we were having about whether it's appropriate for a BBC phone-in host to use playground put-downs to caricature the opinions of Albion fans that he disagrees with.

Have you lost interest in that discussion entirely or do you want to carry it on?

I am tempted to call your bluff though and call you Lemming on NSC from now on I wonder how long your even temper would last if I did that?

LI, you can call me a cum guzzling thunder slut if it makes you feel happy. I could say that all discussions you enter into are personal as they all revolve around you proving what an erudite and knowledgeable human being you are.

Not only this but it is clear I went back to the original argument associated with the overall thread but you have instigated a personal attack by threatening to call me Lemming and saying my argument was brainless. But I'm sure that that is a perfectly reasonable thing for you to do from the top of your soap box.

Also you are blatantly pulling the argument away from your own failings as a poster on here (i.e being rather arrogant and condescending) and drawing attention to mine, but masquerading it as a desire on my part not to enter into an argument with you. Which also has the added, and rather hidden, bonus of making you look more intelligent by inferring that I don't want to get into a debate with you over the issue.

And for the record I don't ever remember anyone at my school using 'lemming' as an insult. For me the use of lemming articulated the point that many fans were blindly following a belief that relegation would not cause any problems. Whether I agree with Harty or not, I think the connotations of the word worked well in the context of his view.

I’m sure your now gonna fixate on a small part of what I said, deconstruct it to the hilt and say I am a moron who has just resorted to calling you a poo poo head. Why don’t you come up with a better argument than 'the word lemming made me cry' and actually have a more substantial reason for disagreeing with my assessment of the situation. And if you can do it without a personal attack that would be nice, nobody likes a hypocrite.