Labours latest attempt to sell the lie that immigrants are not quejumping for housing

[Buzzer]

i know you describe yourself as looney
but how f***ing looney do you have to be to describe Brown's thatcherite post blair new labour government as left wing?

you must have REALLY shat your pants over a trotskyite like Neil Kinnock

I don't think it's that looney to describe them as left wing. Their policy has been simply to tax and spend and tax and spend. We have seen the public sector mushroom to an almost unsustainable point within a supposed free Market economy, diktats come from the top intruding into every part of our lives like some sort of soviet style satellite country and it's clear that the government simply doesn't trust it's people to make decisions for themselves.

I'd say that makes it left wing with a very nasty strand of authoritarianism added. I understand it might not be your choice of left-wingism but to label it Thatcherite is IMO as misleading as it is wrong.

 

[Scampi]

I don't think it's that looney to describe them as left wing. Their policy has been simply to tax and spend and tax and spend. We have seen the public sector mushroom to an almost unsustainable point within a supposed free Market economy, diktats come from the top intruding into every part of our lives like some sort of soviet style satellite country and it's clear that the government simply doesn't trust it's people to make decisions for themselves.

I'd say that makes it left wing with a very nasty strand of authoritarianism added. I understand it might not be your choice of left-wingism but to label it Thatcherite is IMO as misleading as it is wrong.

I think there are competing strains within the governement, so that some of it's policies are thatcherite, while others hark back to old fashioned labour objectives of the past. You can see this in the health service where spending under new labour has grown hugely, while at the same time introducing measures to involve private companies in the provision of infrastructure and services.

 

[Buzzer]

True but the cynic (and extremely biased Tory) in me looks at that as partly a way of getting liabilities off the balance sheet of UK plc ie the ppf initiatives.

Getting back to the thread in question, as discussed before, I think it's nimbyism about taking on immigrants that creates these huge problems in inner city areas. Saying that id probably be one of those nimbys. Dunno what the answer is.

 

[looney]

The problem with this report is that for some people it is an article of faith that immigrants jump the housing queue. Looney nicely illustrates this point, by dismissing the report out of hand because he disagrees with the conclusions and doesn't like the messengers.
It reminds me of the atttitude of creationists who aren't interested in evidence because their minds are already made up.

I didn't dismiss it out of hand I showed how the numbers dont add up, stick to your flat earth ideology against all mounting evidence by all means.

 

[glasfryn]

Your name says it all you must be that if you think this government is left wing, slightly left of thatcherism yes I'll give you that but they are watered down tories.

the fact that most immigrants take the first house/flat they are offered may have something to do with it ..........mind you there are some estates that would have me living in a tent rather live in them

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

So what? If I was an immigrant with kids and nowhere to live I would be blagging like hell to get a house and so would anyone else.

The difference is that the recent arrivals are not sitting there thinking they are somehow "entitled" to social housing by gift of coming from a long line of layabouts, the contrary they see it as something worth having that they are prepared to graft at to achieve to better their families lot.

Unfortunately its easy to blame everyone but yourself for being in a crappy situation.

I accept that sometimes circumstances, whether it be illness or economic circumstance that cause it, when families may need to rely on social housing to see them through a crisis point, but to expect it on a generation by generation basis is just plain wrong and needs to be challenged or people will never aspire to anything more than state dependancy.

If you have a social housing system which is meant to help the poorest in society which is occupied on a permanent basis by the same families in perpetuity then its no wonder we have the social collapse we see among our youngsters and family groups.

It means that the very poor immigrants are in direct competition with the very poor locals and conflict and far right views will be encouraged.

Stick that in your report equality commission.

 

[El Presidente]

This is quite laughable really, a leftwing think tank does research for the Equality commision(leftwing) for a leftwing government and comes up with the conclusion that immigrant que jumping for social housing is a myth.

Leftwing government? You are kidding

 

[glasfryn]

So what? If I was an immigrant with kids and nowhere to live I would be blagging like hell to get a house and so would anyone else.

The difference is that the recent arrivals are not sitting there thinking they are somehow "entitled" to social housing by gift of coming from a long line of layabouts, the contrary they see it as something worth having that they are prepared to graft at to achieve to better their families lot.

Unfortunately its easy to blame everyone but yourself for being in a crappy situation.

I accept that sometimes circumstances, whether it be illness or economic circumstance that cause it, when families may need to rely on social housing to see them through a crisis point, but to expect it on a generation by generation basis is just plain wrong and needs to be challenged or people will never aspire to anything more than state dependancy.

If you have a social housing system which is meant to help the poorest in society which is occupied on a permanent basis by the same families in perpetuity then its no wonder we have the social collapse we see among our youngsters and family groups.

It means that the very poor immigrants are in direct competition with the very poor locals and conflict and far right views will be encouraged.

Stick that in your report equality commission.

what a cracking post

 

[Scampi]

I didn't dismiss it out of hand I showed how the numbers dont add up, stick to your flat earth ideology against all mounting evidence by all means.

You did dismiss it. First you tried to discredit the people who carried out the survey, then you made some vague numeric claims.

 

[El Presidente]

Right lads white working class people will get priority from now on. Are you happy with that?

What does colour have to do with it? Do you have to be white to be British?

 

[The Spanish]

What does colour have to do with it? Do you have to be white to be British?

if race is an issue in housing policy, then it has everything to do with it.

Where do I say or even imply that you have to be white to be British? You should come round my house for tea mate you would be amazed who you sat down with, before you start hyperventilating with glee that you get another opportunity to rattle out your sixth form common room rubbish yet again.


Another valid concern dismissed by someone desperate to show off their groovy credentials and reduce the argument to the level of middle class teenage mongs.

 

[WATFORD zero]

"the lie" is one that's constantly propagated by loser chavvy ne'er-did-wells who ALWAYS have to blame someone else for the predicaments they found themselves in. Usually sapping off the state for years on end, they still want to blame someone they don't like so that they don't have to dislike themselves for not getting an education... or a job... and having kids they can't afford....and losing money at the bookies...and wasting it down the local.... all the while lamenting their inability to climb the social or professional ladders that they don't even step onto rung number one of.

Talking of which, where is NSC's own mr shellsuit, Das Reich ? He has normally added the sum total of his wit and wisdom to an immigrant debate by now.

 

[alan partridge]

I work in housing and used to house people in a number of local authorities. The law is based on housing need not on race - if you are homeless and with kids/pregnant/disability/old then you get housed when one is available.

Immigrants are not entitled to permanent housing until a lengthy qualifying period.

That's the law - it pretty much favours British nationals

The main issue is that there is not enough housing - if there was, it wouldn't need to be rationed.

as already said, straight from the horses mouth.

Not that some people will accept it. Not fitting in with their own views and that.

 

[The Spanish]

no its nonsense that fits a particular viewpoint equally.

PERMANENT housing. Not just housing.

Favours British nationals. British nationality is actively sought by people coming from overseas as part of the migration process. Plenty of British nationals are very recent arrivals.

There is not enough council housing. If they built enough there would not be a problem or shortage.

Supply led lefty nonsense. Plenty of empty housing stock in Britain. Problem is its not in London or the South East. Build a million houses in London tomorrow. See what happens and who occupies them.

 

[m20gull]

This isn't about immigration. This is about spin.

If there is genuinely a policy of no preferential treatment then the report wouldn't be necessary.

If the people carrying out the research were unbiased then one might have more confidence in the conclusion. They have set out to show a result and collected statistics that back it up. There's no mention in the public broadcasts (including from members of the research group) about the rate at which families are housed, only their penetration in to the population. If groups are exiting the population at different rates, e.g. by voluntary or involuntary return to home countires or transition to private housing then the research tells you nothing.

 

[m20gull]

I work in housing and used to house people in a number of local authorities. The law is based on housing need not on race - if you are homeless and with kids/pregnant/disability/old then you get housed when one is available.

Immigrants are not entitled to permanent housing until a lengthy qualifying period.

How lengthy? Where do they go before then?

 

[janee]

Even Brits who come to this country from abroad are disqualified from help - you have to show you are habitually resident here for a couple of years.

Permanent housing is the issue - temporary housing is occasionally council housing but not often and you have few rights - certainly no right to buy.

Of course everybody claims to know somebody who arrives at Gatwick and moves straight into a 7 bed council house and then buys it at discount (I've heard this so many times over the years) but never come across an actual case wherever I've been working in 20 years (or a 5 bed council house either for that matter).

Are we really saying that we want families with small children living in the streets just because they are foreign? If you pass the asylum test - you have to be in a pretty bad way.

I take the point about empty homes and demand being in the south east - but there still remains a shortage of housing in this country for all who can't afford to buy it and until the empty homes are converted - I'll stay with my point.

I wish the newspapers had a bit more of a clue about housing policy before spouting sometimes!

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I think you'll find the vast majority of immigrants , refugees and asylum seekers given leave to stay will be housed in the private rental sector and not council housing. The local councils however will be picking up the tab for the rent as housing benefit will no doubt be claimed.

 

[The Spanish]

Even Brits who come to this country from abroad are disqualified from help - you have to show you are habitually resident here for a couple of years.

Permanent housing is the issue - temporary housing is occasionally council housing but not often and you have few rights - certainly no right to buy.

Of course everybody claims to know somebody who arrives at Gatwick and moves straight into a 7 bed council house and then buys it at discount (I've heard this so many times over the years) but never come across an actual case wherever I've been working in 20 years (or a 5 bed council house either for that matter).

Are we really saying that we want families with small children living in the streets just because they are foreign? If you pass the asylum test - you have to be in a pretty bad way.

I take the point about empty homes and demand being in the south east - but there still remains a shortage of housing in this country for all who can't afford to buy it and until the empty homes are converted - I'll stay with my point.

I wish the newspapers had a bit more of a clue about housing policy before spouting sometimes!

fair play to you Jane you work in that sector and will not be so bold as to contradict what you say, but its an emotive issue.

it just makes me laugh that some on here knock people claiming dole when I bet plenty more on here will get a P45 before the year is out, and claim that self serving housing policies, or at least protectionism based on race, does not happen. I would strongly advise people to google who is in charge of housing in for example Southwark or Tower Hamlets. But still thats just London where you go to work, why care?

Absolutely clueless, and the sort of ridiculous denial that gets the idiot BNP nearly a million protest votes.

 

[RexCathedra]

The problem with this report is that for some people it is an article of faith that immigrants jump the housing queue

The Prime Directive for politicians is Get Re-elected. If the immigrants aren't naturalized, and don't vote, and vote in his constituency, where's the percentage in it for J Random, MP?. And if it does give him a boost in his constituency, but hurts his party at large, he'll be told to soft-pedal it by the national party at some point

Surely the existence of some reverse-racialist, whitey-hating, guilty-liberal bloc vote out there in London NW-something large enough to swing elections is a Tory fantasy.