Ketamine

[perseus]

As part of my work, we use Ketamine as sedation. It's quite an amazing drug to see the effects. Very interesting what drugs do to people!

I even heard Midazolam was started to be used on the black market. That's just terrifying!

That's why I called it a paedo's drug.

 

[Notters]

I doubt the Daily Mail has anything to do with this. Presumably it was the Urologist on the BBC who pointed out how many people's lives are ruined by repeated use and the consequent long term urinary problems - I suspect he's seen a fair bit of research too (as well as all the patients he's having to treat). He also said the idea that the drug is not addictive is a myth as higher & higher dosages are required. It's used as a painkiller and people reach a point where the only drug that will stop the bladder pain caused by the ketamine is... More ketamine.

Of course, I'm sure he's just part of some conspiracy to stop people having fun rather than a proper scientist like you.

I've been carefully avoiding this argument, but I honestly don't think that what you say is completely relevant. Even if it proven to be extremely addictive and extremely dangerous, I don't think it should be illegal.

 

[Don Quixote]

I blame the Green party

 

[tinytears]

I have ms & fibromyalgia. I was given a so called low dose by the NHS. It went in by a pump over 4 hours. It was the scariest experience of my life. It pretty much paralysed my jaw, hallucinations( & not good ones). paranoia. There is no way I can imagine people find it fun.

 

[sydney]

peado's drugs left the building when rohypnol was withdrawn..........lighten up eh .....ffs..??

 

[perseus]

I have ms & fibromyalgia. I was given a so called low dose by the NHS. It went in by a pump over 4 hours. It was the scariest experience of my life. It pretty much paralysed my jaw, hallucinations( & not good ones). paranoia. There is no way I can imagine people find it fun.

Are you sure they gave you the right chemical? This sounds like a nerve-seizing agent, a Phenothiazine type.

 

[Colossal Squid]

But you come across as a self-righteous bore. Kids don't want to be boring...

Absolutely.

People respond far better to being properly educated than being told by someone with absolutely no experience or qualifications that something is bad simply because that's what the right wing media has told them.

I haven't once advocated the use of Ketamine, but I have suggested tat people take their time to try and understand it, what effects it has on people, why some people choose to take it and why others who have done wouldn't again.

I'd suggest the people on this thread saying they've given it a go but didn't like it for whatever reason would have far more effect on youngsters considering trying it than Uncle C and his "all drugs are bad, I know because I read it in the Daily Mail" schtick.

It is a common story the world over that prohibition doesn't work. Intelligent people are far more responsive to substantiated logical and reasoned debate on the subject of recreational drugs than some kind of authority figure (or even a reactionary forum poster) telling them they are inherently evil.

I seem to be constantly repeating myself here so I'm not going to bother replying to this thread any longer. At the end of the day people are going to experiment with illegal (as well as legal) drugs whether they're told not to or not. It is far more responsible to educate them about the actual risks and sensible practises than to employ scare tactics.

When I was in school we were given a blanket message of "all drugs are bad, keep away" which I took note of until I got a bit older and was introduced to Marijuana. I suddenly discovered that this oft repeated rhetoric that all illegal substances have only negative and dangerous qualities was, in fact, a lie. Discovering through my own use, discussions with others and reading up on the topic that there were many confirmed medicinal uses for cannabis it didn't take long for me to wonder whether other illegal narcotics were in fact far less dangerous than we had been convinced of in school. Suddenly you take the stance "well if this one isn't so bad, perhaps the others aren't so bad either".

There are unquestionably class A substances that ruin people's lives and really don't have any positive qualities, but by the same token there are others that don't have anywhere near the same negative impact on recreational users and lumping them all in the same "stay away kids" umbrella statement ends up being irresponsible.

I believe in education, not prohibition. After all we live in a free and open democracy which we should never take for granted. Doesn't democracy mean we are encouraged to think for ourselves and make our own decisions?

In short I'm not going to keep repeating myself, going round in circles stating my opinion so this is all I've got to say on the matter. I base my conclusions on much research on the matter and my own personal beliefs. If you dont agree that's your prerogative but don't come on here shouting the odds that I'm wrong, because I've spent a great deal of time and effort studying this subject and just like anyone else on this board I'm entitled to my opinions (copyright brightonmark1234).

Some people need to wind their necks in and have a day off

 

[seagulls4ever]

If ketamine is that bad for you, don't touch alcohol with barge polls, because otherwise you're going to DIE.

 

[sydney]

If ketamine is that bad for you, don't touch alcohol with barge polls, because otherwise you're going to DIE.

would have thought tobacco would be right up there tbh.....shows what i know

 

[Colossal Squid]

would have thought tobacco would be right up there tbh.....shows what i know

Probably because nobody is going to die from having one packet of cigarettes whereas with something like alcohol, one night on the booze is enough to kill you

 

[seagulls4ever]

would have thought tobacco would be right up there tbh.....shows what i know

Perhaps it is in other charts. This is from a 2006 BBC article: BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Drug classification rethink urged

 

[Notters]

would have thought tobacco would be right up there tbh.....shows what i know

The harm rating is made up of harm to self, harm to society and economic harm (or something like that). The reason tobacco is relatively low down is because it scores massively highly on the harm to self, but not on the others.

 

[Notters]

would have thought tobacco would be right up there tbh.....shows what i know

The harm rating is made up of harm to self, harm to society and economic harm (or something like that). The reason tobacco is relatively low down is because it scores massively highly on the harm to self, but not on the others.

 

[Biscuit]

It's a shit drug for wankers. If your 15/16 you'll do it anyway and grow out of it. If you're doing it in your mid twenties you need to get a life.

 

[trueblue]

I've been carefully avoiding this argument, but I honestly don't think that what you say is completely relevant. Even if it proven to be extremely addictive and extremely dangerous, I don't think it should be illegal.

As far as I could tell the specialist on the BBC programme wasn't calling for it to be illegal. He was just asking people to stop taking it so that he didn't see so many lives ruined by bladder problems among people who would otherwise generally be far too young to need treatment.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

That's why I called it a paedo's drug.

I still don't understand your link!

 

[Triggaaar]

I'd suggest the people on this thread saying they've given it a go but didn't like it for whatever reason would have far more effect on youngsters considering trying it than Uncle C and his "all drugs are bad, I know because I read it in the Daily Mail" schtick.

Yes I imagine they will have an effect on youngsters. Those youngsters will get the idea that the government haven't got a clue, and that all illegal drugs should be legal, and it's fine to try anything once.

 

[Seagull27]

Those youngsters will get the idea that the government haven't got a clue,

When it comes to drugs, that's true.

and that all illegal drugs should be legal

Clearly not many are calling for all drugs to be made legal, but there is more than a good case for some to be.

and it's fine to try anything once.

Within reason, is that a bad thing?

I think it's better, as CS said, that youngsters are given an education on the facts about all drugs, both good and bad and how they compare, rather than plainly telling them that they're wrong. If young people will do them regardless of whether they're told it's wrong, it's better that they are given more knowledge so they are prepared for what could or could not happen, rather than jumping in at the deep end and potentially getting into more trouble.

 

[Triggaaar]

When it comes to drugs, that's true.

It's easy to criticise the government, but can't be an easy problem for them to solve. There's a reason why each successive government leaves things as they are.

Clearly not many are calling for all drugs to be made legal, but there is more than a good case for some to be.

There's certainly a case for it, but I've never studied the reality of it.

Within reason, is that a bad thing?

Yes, that is a bad thing. If impressionable people think it's fine to try anything, most of the drugs they try will be untested, some will be mixed, many will be addictive - even the ones that aren't supposed to be, where the dealer has added something for some repeat custom. Who knows what long term effects there will be on that persons mental health. It would be good to have more independant studies with the aim of legalising some drugs, allowing them to be produced and supplied through accountable outlets. If these studies can show what is and isn't harmful, and educate people, it would be great if people had a choice of drugs without turning to a black market. But I don't suppose it's that easy. It must be very difficult to know the long term effects of mind altering drugs (that would count for alcohol too, but there's a lot more information available).

I think it's better, as CS said, that youngsters are given an education on the facts about all drugs, both good and bad and how they compare, rather than plainly telling them that they're wrong.

Like I say though, it's not that obvious what is good and bad about all drugs.

If young people will do them regardless of whether they're told it's wrong, it's better that they are given more knowledge so they are prepared for what could or could not happen.

Again not easy, but it probably is worth the government researching options.

 

[huge]

I've worked on the doors in brighton. I've seen people on it. Makes you look like a f**king idiot. Also when you snap some one out of there own little world they can sometimes be a bit fighty but thier motor skills are shot so they tend to flail around a bit. Also that polo nose white powder around the nostral is a really good look.