[News] Just Stop Oil

[rogersix]

That stopping Japan, Germany, US, Canada and Australia destroying the planet (per capita) is far more important by an immeasurable multiple. Over and above the usual UK navel gazing from folk who really struggle to look beyond these shores, who can’t see the big picture of mankind. We see this time and time again, a British disease, is it a mental block of party politicised obsessives in a media/twatter/facebook era? Bringing central London to halt for protracted periods won’t ultimately reduce the temperatures in Italy, the US or Mali.

I’m far more interested in global agreements.

The UK has already made great progress without a roadblock in sight. Some, I hope you’re not blinkered too, would have us believe that we’re CO2 pariahs. People can’t be that stupid.

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sorry, was that a, "not at all"?

when negotiating your global deal, and britain issuing licences for fossil fuel extraction, how do you think this will play out with the poorer nations?

 

[chickens]

My problem is the haulage companies, Tesla brought out a tractor unit fully electric, attached that to the trailer and that was it, the combind weight was more than Legally allowed on british roads, my aim in truck us to cover between 400 and 450 miles per day, an electric truck will do at best 250 miles before it needs to be charged, thats without a fridge trailer attached. Yes we can put more electric trucks on the road, but how are these extra drivers pay comming from. I think Diesel will still be needed for the next 10 years.

There are logistical challenges definitely. I’m wondering if it would be possible to raise the floor level of a trailer slightly so it had additional battery arrays under the floor? Or even have batteries under the current existing floor level.

The point is, we have to find working solutions. We can’t carry on as we have been without significant long term consequences. Batteries are heavy, and absolutely the technology should improve over time, but we might have to take a step back before the technology is refined enough to take a step forwards.

 

[beorhthelm]

There are logistical challenges definitely. I’m wondering if it would be possible to raise the floor level of a trailer slightly so it had additional battery arrays under the floor? Or even have batteries under the current existing floor level.

The point is, we have to find working solutions. We can’t carry on as we have been without significant long term consequences. Batteries are heavy, and absolutely the technology should improve over time, but we might have to take a step back before the technology is refined enough to take a step forwards.

we do not need to find solutions to everything. the target was to keep global temperature anomoly below +2deg. thats been changed to +1.5. currently we're a little under +1. so we while we should make changes and rein in increased outputs (especially in developing parts of the world), we do not need to make expensive, inefficent, pious changes everywhere. so keep the trucks rolling on diesel as that is efficent and difficult to replace, cut drastically the air travel as thats mostly lesuire. and so on.

 

[Weststander]

sorry, was that a, "not at all"?

when negotiating your global deal, and britain issuing licences for fossil fuel extraction, how do you think this will play out with the poorer nations?

I know you’re very party political, we’ve got the message on repeat that all ills, whether it be pandemic, food inflation, energy inflation, climate change are due to the UK Tories.

So sticking to your favourite theme of party politics, a year into a Starmer government, what tangible comfort can a farmer in Andalucia, Greece or Chad gain from that change of government?

When Starmer wins, I genuinely look forward to it, there’s one additional aspect that will be worth keeping an eye on. I wonder what the army of professional moaners on social media will have to say if JSO or any other pressure groups slag off the government.

 

[Jim in the West]

I agree that man is screwing the planet and climate, I’ve thought this consistently for 40 years.

I also hate the power of petro companies and their collusion with governments. Sometimes they’re one and the same …. Norway!

But sorry I don’t hang all my hopes on one UK campaign group to alter one nation, to save the planet. I don’t agree with the length of the methods. All publicity isn’t always great publicity. Get the vast majority on your side.

Finally, the UK is way, way down the league of CO2 released per capita. Germany, Canada, Japan, US and Australia have got shockingly bad numbers. It has to be a continued joint effort. I’m more interested in how the global community can stop the usual suspects destroying the planet, than bringing London to a halt.

JSO has sister organisations in Germany, the US and Australia (and other countries - including Norway). The German equivalent is, rather frighteningly, called Letzte Generation. So the good news is, the global community IS taking action. But it all falls down if everyone says "you're worse than us, so you sort yourself out first". At COP26 the UK said it wanted to be a world leader. Unfortunately, since then, we've rowed back on our commitments, and even the UK's own Climate Change Committee has recently said that we're at serious risk of missing our Net Zero target. They also say that our expansion of fossil fuel production is not in line with our Net Zero commitment. The slow marches in London would stop tomorrow if the government simply promised not to award any more licences for the extraction of new oil, gas and coal reserves. And if they did so, the government would just be acknowledging the Net Zero commitment they made last year. Unfortunately there are too many individuals in government who are paid by, or have shares in, oil companies. They are putting their own personal wealth before the lives of our kids and grandkids.

 

[chickens]

we do not need to find solutions to everything. the target was to keep global temperature anomoly below +2deg. thats been changed to +1.5. currently we're a little under +1. so we while we should make changes and rein in increased outputs (especially in developing parts of the world), we do not need to make expensive, inefficent, pious changes everywhere. so keep the trucks rolling on diesel as that is efficent and difficult to replace, cut drastically the air travel as thats mostly lesuire. and so on.

That’s where we are, but I’m led to believe we have only a 1% chance of reaching the 1..5 degree goal, and only a 5% chance of reaching the 2 degree goal, past which we risk mass permafrost melting and potentially catastrophic (to humans) changes to weather patterns and global currents. It takes a long time to turn the climate tanker around.

I’d argue against diesel over the longer term. We can’t support and encourage others globally to switch away unless we’ve done it ourselves. Better to lead on a new technology, refine it faster than other nations, and then sell our expertise all over the world. Just my personal view, I respect that you feel differently and accept I’m unlikely to change your mind.

 

[Weststander]

JSO has sister organisations in Germany, the US and Australia (and other countries - including Norway). The German equivalent is, rather frighteningly, called Letzte Generation. So the good news is, the global community IS taking action. But it all falls down if everyone says "you're worse than us, so you sort yourself out first". At COP26 the UK said it wanted to be a world leader. Unfortunately, since then, we've rowed back on our commitments, and even the UK's own Climate Change Committee has recently said that we're at serious risk of missing our Net Zero target. They also say that our expansion of fossil fuel production is not in line with our Net Zero commitment. The slow marches in London would stop tomorrow if the government simply promised not to award any more licences for the extraction of new oil, gas and coal reserves. And if they did so, the government would just be acknowledging the Net Zero commitment they made last year. Unfortunately there are too many individuals in government who are paid by, or have shares in, oil companies. They are putting their own personal wealth before the lives of our kids and grandkids.

I’m not saying we’re paragons of virtue. Personally I’m against fracking, the new coal mine licence and all the idealogical crap like that. Smacks of Trump lite.

Climate change/pollution are matters close to my heart, long before others took any interest. Alpine and polar environments show damage and temperature changes far in excess of the reported +1.5c.

I take the macro view in wondering what the entire polluting world is doing about it. Japan, Germany and Canada, for example, appear to be putting vast minerals an/or manufacturing wealth above making the inroads others have made. To me that’s frightening.

 

[jessiejames]

There are logistical challenges definitely. I’m wondering if it would be possible to raise the floor level of a trailer slightly so it had additional battery arrays under the floor? Or even have batteries under the current existing floor level.

The point is, we have to find working solutions. We can’t carry on as we have been without significant long term consequences. Batteries are heavy, and absolutely the technology should improve over time, but we might have to take a step back before the technology is refined enough to take a step forwards.

Unfortunately you still have the weight issue. My company are replacing half of the 7.5t trucks to 5.5t vans both have same payload of 2.5t, however the van has less room for pallets but more Economical in MPG and maintenance and less polluting.

 

[rogersix]

I know you’re very party political, we’ve got the message on repeat that all ills, whether it be pandemic, food inflation, energy inflation, climate change are due to the UK Tories.

So sticking to your favourite theme of party politics, a year into a Starmer government, what tangible comfort can a farmer in Andalucia, Greece or Chad gain from that change of government?

When Starmer wins, I genuinely look forward to it, there’s one additional aspect that will be worth keeping an eye on. I wonder what the army of professional moaners on social media will have to say if JSO or any other pressure groups slag off the government.

i see you do enjoy your homespun analysis,

i vote lib dem usually, so what's starmer got to do wth me, or andalucian farmers for that matter?

it is amusing watching tories scrabbling about, trying to rationalize voting tory, outside of their favoured greed motive

are you so desperate to be seen as neutral because you're a tory apologist?

 

[Algernon]

so the only important thing is, forming a plan and then actioning upon it, that's what the protestors are hoping to bring about

You come across on here as a very confident and argumentative type of chap/woman/?? and sanctimonious without fault.
How about you tell us what you're doing yourself to save the planet? I take it as a given that you don't own a petrol or diesel powered car/motorbike? Your home is fitted with a heat pump, extremely well insulated and fitted with solar panels and/or possibly a wind turbine and you surely must re-use your rain water as it runs off the roof. I hope you turn your thermostat right down in the summer and a few degrees lower than the past 20 years in the winter. Those standby lights should be off too but I'm sure you know that already. Every little bit helps. You shouldn't scrimp on your efforts just because you can't get everyone else to try as hard as you.
And more to the actual point...
Have you been on the protests? Cycled to London and walked slowly alongside them in solidarity?
Been in contact with JSO head office and tried to start a JSO rogersix protest group?
You seem keen to talk the talk. Have you and are you walking the walk?

 

[jcdenton08]

i see you do enjoy your homespun analysis,

i vote lib dem usually, so what's starmer got to do wth me, or andalucian farmers for that matter?

it is amusing watching tories scrabbling about, trying to rationalize voting tory, outside of their favoured greed motive

are you so desperate to be seen as neutral because you're a tory apologist?

You’ve just posted passive aggressively towards me in the other thread, now you’re lashing out at Weststander. Maybe take a breath, I’m sure you’re a decent person but when it comes to party politics you seem to get very upset.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

There are logistical challenges definitely. I’m wondering if it would be possible to raise the floor level of a trailer slightly so it had additional battery arrays under the floor? Or even have batteries under the current existing floor level.

The point is, we have to find working solutions. We can’t carry on as we have been without significant long term consequences. Batteries are heavy, and absolutely the technology should improve over time, but we might have to take a step back before the technology is refined enough to take a step forwards.

Adding more battery kills the payload, which means operators will need more trucks to shift the same amount of goods, which means increasing their operating costs and everything gets more expensive.

Fuel cells/hydrogen looked like they were going to be the silver bullet for a while but the truck manufacturers seem set on batteries. Fine for urban operations but, as @jessiejames says, not so great for long haul.

Of course, the ideal situation is autonomous trucks because that takes away the most expensive element for hauliers - the driver! But that's decades away - if ever.

 

[rogersix]

You come across on here as a very confident and argumentative type of chap/woman/?? and sanctimonious without fault.
How about you tell us what you're doing yourself to save the planet? I take it as a given that you don't own a petrol or diesel powered car/motorbike? Your home is fitted with a heat pump, extremely well insulated and fitted with solar panels and/or possibly a wind turbine and you surely must re-use your rain water as it runs off the roof. I hope you turn your thermostat right down in the summer and a few degrees lower than the past 20 years in the winter. Those standby lights should be off too but I'm sure you know that already. Every little bit helps. You shouldn't scrimp on your efforts just because you can't get everyone else to try as hard as you.
And more to the actual point...
Have you been on the protests? Cycled to London and walked slowly alongside them in solidarity?
Been in contact with JSO head office and tried to start a JSO rogersix protest group?
You seem keen to talk the talk. Have you and are you walking the walk?

i do my bit and a bit more. maybe i come across as confident because i studied enviromental science 25 years ago.

you come across as someone who doesn't care, which is entirely rational and understandable by the way

 

[rogersix]

You’ve just posted passive aggressively towards me in the other thread, now you’re lashing out at Weststander. Maybe take a breath, I’m sure you’re a decent person but when it comes to party politics you seem to get very upset.

lashing out? he's just guessing.

in all seriousness, if you don't get upset about this neo-liberal cult that has taken over the conservative party, you've mis-read the room

 

[beorhthelm]

That’s where we are, but I’m led to believe we have only a 1% chance of reaching the 1..5 degree goal, and only a 5% chance of reaching the 2 degree goal, past which we risk mass permafrost melting and potentially catastrophic (to humans) changes to weather patterns and global currents. It takes a long time to turn the climate tanker around.

if the chances were so low, we may as well give up as it's not going to be achieved - would you place your financial future on a 20/1 bet?

some more practical numbers here (google docs ) gives a 50% chance if we hit emissions targets by 2050. if we're serious then carbon capture is absolutely essential. JSO isnt interested in that, says thats unicorn technology. they dont offer any other alternatives, just say stop using all fossil fuels in a few years, and stop most consumption. which isn't remotely viable. their demands are absurd and unachievable, they are wasting theirs and everyone elses time.

 

[jcdenton08]

lashing out? he's just guessing.

in all seriousness, if you don't get upset about this neo-liberal cult that has taken over the conservative party, you've mis-read the room

I don’t give a shit as, for the millionth time, I am not voting Tory at the GE.

 

[Algernon]

i do my bit and a bit more. maybe i come across as confident because i studied enviromental science 25 years ago.

you come across as someone who doesn't care, which is entirely rational and understandable by the way

Good to hear you tell us you do your bit and more and genuinely those 25 years will have certainly helped focus your environmental attention far more than the average man on the street. I like to read well informed and educative comment.

I don't want to drag this on and on because I really can't be doing with getting into an Internet back and forth in even the slightest way. I've far better things to spend my time doing but if you'd be so good:
I'm curious, from my previous postings how have you deduced I don't care. Are you referring to the environmental issues facing us or just generally?

 

[jackalbion]

Dont recall anyone suggesting JSO should resort to property vandalism instead of causing traffic jams and disrupting events.

It’s funny how some of you prove my point straight away. Protest at Downing Street, so maybe not Downing Street but a government building. Of course you’ve still got an issue.

 

[jackalbion]

Duplicate

 

[jackalbion]

Isn’t there a strike tomorrow?

In any event, £55 for an anytime return. Driving is cheaper, quicker, more convenient and more comfortable.

It’s almost like there’s a government in charge who’s caused those fares to be so high. But surely the people complaining would never vote for those people.