[News] Just Stop Oil

[Cheeky Monkey]

Laws are not inherently good. I mean, what is in the phrase "law breaking criminals?"

Law breaking criminals, such as the black people who broke the laws that they had to sit in the back of the bus in the US? Law breaking criminals, such as those men who were homosexual in the UK before 1967? Law breaking criminals, such as those in Russia who are protesting the war? Law breaking criminals, like those of you who were invading the pitch some 25 years ago?

People who obey every law just because it is a law are just empty shells.

Genuine question, what was the level of debate like on the Swansea forums, or amount of current affairs threads, compared to on here?

And/or the FC Hammarby forums?

 

[maltaseagull]

….protesters have damaged every pump at Cobham and Clackett Lane services. No fuel available at either. The ****s.

[tweet]1519564685774839808[/tweet]

But they cannot be prosecuted for criminal damage?

 

[dazzer6666]

Genuine question, what was the level of debate like on the Swansea forums, or amount of current affairs threads, compared to on here?

And/or the FC Hammarby forums?

NOTHING like here

https://www.planetswans.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7070

 

[dazzer6666]

But they cannot be prosecuted for criminal damage?

Why not ?

 

[maltaseagull]

Why not ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-59727161

 

[Swansman]

Genuine question, what was the level of debate like on the Swansea forums, or amount of current affairs threads, compared to on here?

And/or the FC Hammarby forums?

Don't know. I was active on the Swansea Reddit forum - where there was pretty much only football related discussion - rather than Planet Swans, so I can't compare really.

But comparing to some of the other forums where I've been lurking at times, such as Stockports Yellowboard and recently the Barnsley BBS, there is definitely more non-football related discussions here... which is fine, but it probably does make it more heated whatever the topic is.

Hammarby... no idea, I dont even know what their main forum is. They are usually extraordinary on match days when it comes to noise, TIFO and such but other than that I have no idea where they hang out or what they talk about.

 

[BLOCK F]

Laws are not inherently good. I mean, what is in the phrase "law breaking criminals?"

Law breaking criminals, such as the black people who broke the laws that they had to sit in the back of the bus in the US? Law breaking criminals, such as those men who were homosexual in the UK before 1967? Law breaking criminals, such as those in Russia who are protesting the war? Law breaking criminals, like those of you who were invading the pitch some 25 years ago?

People who obey every law just because it is a law are just empty shells.

I take your point, Swansman, but, in this instance, I am mainly trying to point out a bit of hypocrisy.
With the exception of your pitch invasion example, the other instances were ones of basic human rights.
In this case, the effect of carbon emissions on the climate is largely accepted throughout the globe and most ‘free’ nations are taking appropriate actions, but progress has to be handled in a practical manner that enables industry and life to proceed without making economies bankrupt. The smashing up of petrol stations does nothing useful.

 

[dazzer6666]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-59727161

Not sure that sets any precedent for damaging fuel pumps. We'll see.

 

[nicko31]

Really? As you can see, at the very least, it has started a debate. If this can focus a few extra minds on this topic it will have succeeded.

Indeed, the damage is symbolic and it get the discussion going about an important issue.

Most drivers will benefit from these actions, if they come off at the Junction after Cobham, Tesco is 22p cheaper a litre

 

[usernamed]

Drax power station produces 4GW per hour, which covers 6% of the UK's energy needs. So the 5GW battery array built or planned would store power for about 8 minutes. Work to be done there, I think.

How much would it cost and how much space would it take to build (say) a week's storage capacity?

Well, I think it’s understandable that we don’t currently have battery capacity to power the whole of the U.K. for a fortnight. Our energy mix isn’t 100% renewable, we also take power from across the seas (such as hydro power from Norway) and it’s extremely rare for the whole of the U.K. to be experiencing a completely still day/night at the same time.

Of course we couldn’t survive on 100% renewables with our current infrastructure, but the point is, as proven in my other posts, renewables (and storage) are growing as part of the energy mix , are significantly cheaper than oil, and are getting cheaper, while drilling for oil (and gas) is getting increasingly expensive as we have to work harder to unearth remaining deposits. My question remains, why oil?

 

[Swansman]

I take your point, Swansman, but, in this instance, I am mainly trying to point out a bit of hypocrisy.
With the exception of your pitch invasion example, the other instances were ones of basic human rights.
In this case, the effect of carbon emissions on the climate is largely accepted throughout the globe and most ‘free’ nations are taking appropriate actions, but progress has to be handled in a practical manner that enables industry and life to proceed without making economies bankrupt. The smashing up of petrol stations does nothing useful.

Hypocrisy is human. I'd love to be a funk bass player but I don't play the bass every day. I'd like to have the body of... someone who is not increasingly fat and old. But I don't work out. I'd prefer if the children in Africa didn't starve, but I'm not sending my Tom Yum-spiced noodles to Uganda.

I'm not sure I agree that countries ar taking appropriate actions. In most cases we just ship the problems elsewhere while we keep benefitting from what originally caused the problem. Tear down the dirty factory that used to producte our shit, pay the Chinese to build a new dirty factory so we can keep importing our shit... on paper, makes England or Sweden cleaner. In reality, the world stays as dirty, and environmental questions global rather than local, so we're just moving around the issues.

What is required is real lifestyle change and real action to either force us to change or make us benefit from changing and I don't think governments are providing nearly enough incentives for people to change, at any level.

 

[Baldseagull]

Seems like it is primarily young people, interested in having a habitable planet when they get old.

I am a bit of an old man now, but I do want a habitable planet for my descendants, and others, I don't think this action will do anything to further that.

 

[BLOCK F]

Hypocrisy is human. I'd love to be a funk bass player but I don't play the bass every day. I'd like to have the body of... someone who is not increasingly fat and old. But I don't work out. I'd prefer if the children in Africa didn't starve, but I'm not sending my Tom Yum-spiced noodles to Uganda.

I'm not sure I agree that countries ar taking appropriate actions. In most cases we just ship the problems elsewhere while we keep benefitting from what originally caused the problem. Tear down the dirty factory that used to producte our shit, pay the Chinese to build a new dirty factory so we can keep importing our shit... on paper, makes England or Sweden cleaner. In reality, the world stays as dirty, and environmental questions global rather than local, so we're just moving around the issues.

What is required is real lifestyle change and real action to either force us to change or make us benefit from changing and I don't think governments are providing nearly enough incentives for people to change, at any level.[/QUOTE

Trouble is, ‘ real lifestyle change’’ is hellishly difficult to achieve and those who champion such an approach usually mean ‘drastic action NOW’, which, more often than not, is unachievable in a practical way and also unacceptable to the masses in the free world.
Ironically, those countries that are not so free, appear to be the laggards in doing something about carbon emissions………China, anybody?

 

[Baldseagull]

Hypocrisy is human. I'd love to be a funk bass player but I don't play the bass every day. I'd like to have the body of... someone who is not increasingly fat and old. But I don't work out. I'd prefer if the children in Africa didn't starve, but I'm not sending my Tom Yum-spiced noodles to Uganda.

I'm not sure I agree that countries ar taking appropriate actions. In most cases we just ship the problems elsewhere while we keep benefitting from what originally caused the problem. Tear down the dirty factory that used to producte our shit, pay the Chinese to build a new dirty factory so we can keep importing our shit... on paper, makes England or Sweden cleaner. In reality, the world stays as dirty, and environmental questions global rather than local, so we're just moving around the issues.

What is required is real lifestyle change and real action to either force us to change or make us benefit from changing and I don't think governments are providing nearly enough incentives for people to change, at any level.

I have solar panels on my roof, there was a financial incentive to do that from a Government scheme. There was an estimated subsidy of £4.3B for offshore windfarms in 2020, subsidies continue to rise year on year for wind power, despite the cost of manufacture and deployment decreasing, because although the subsidies are reducing in value, the volume of production is increasing. I don't know what is happening in Sweden, but we are on a fairly decent path here to eliminate fossil fuels, it could be faster, but smashing up petrol pumps won't make that happen, you will just get people driving around with a 20 litre Jerry Can in the boot if services become patchy, and that will burn more fuel to carry it.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Most drivers will benefit from these actions, if they come off at the Junction after Cobham, Tesco is 22p cheaper a litre

So what you're saying is, we're witnessing a mafia style turf war and these guys are actually in the employ of Tesco?

I am much more interested now!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I assume they walked/cycled there?

My first thought was how did they get to Cobham given it's on a motorway !

In addition, I assume none of them wore trainers ? Or indeed uses any kind of plastic ? Doesn't use any form of public transport ? Or use a bicycle with rubber tyres ? Or buy food that has been transported by road ?

The answer is of course they do - so their protest is against any use of oil THEY don't like - in this case fuel in private cars. Cars are one of the smallest problems when it comes to oil usage given we're rapidly moving to electric cars. Utter morons that need sending to prison ASAP.

 

[Swansman]

I have solar panels on my roof, there was a financial incentive to do that from a Government scheme. There was an estimated subsidy of £4.3B for offshore windfarms in 2020, subsidies continue to rise year on year for wind power, despite the cost of manufacture and deployment decreasing, because although the subsidies are reducing in value, the volume of production is increasing. I don't know what is happening in Sweden, but we are on a fairly decent path here to eliminate fossil fuels, it could be faster, but smashing up petrol pumps won't make that happen, you will just get people driving around with a 20 litre Jerry Can in the boot if services become patchy, and that will burn more fuel to carry it.

Wind power is... not efficient. Great with the solar panels though. But none of this is enough.

Trouble is, ‘ real lifestyle change’’ is hellishly difficult to achieve and those who champion such an approach usually mean ‘drastic action NOW’, which, more often than not, is unachievable in a practical way and also unacceptable to the masses in the free world.
Ironically, those countries that are not so free, appear to be the laggards in doing something about carbon emissions………China, anybody?

As I've said before, the reason why they are "lagging behind" is because they are importing our problems. If we have a 100 environmental problems, we solve one and ship the rest abroad. China and Russia etc. are "dirty" because we are "clean".

If the smartphones of 70 millions UKanians would end up on the beaches of Brighton instead of some beach in Africa, you'd have a damn dirty beach. If you would produce 100% of your energy rather than importing 50%, you'd likely require dirty solutions. If you would produce 100% of your luxuary/unnecessary goods, your country would be filled with dirty factories, there wouldn't be a single God damn tree in your country and if you would produce 100% of your food, Falmer Stadium would probably be a farm rather than a stadium and anywhere you'd go it would probably smell of ammonia and manure. But you, just like us in Sweden, outsourced these problems. And thats great because then we can pat ourselves on the back, imagining "we're oh so good and green". But the environment and atmosphere really doesn't give much of a shit if the pollution from the mass consumption society has its source here or there. It all affects the global eco-system.

I agree that real lifestyle change is very difficult to achieve. It takes cataclysmic events that changes attitudes and/or technology, like a world war or digitalization. But unless it happens now, with rapid if not immediate pace, the cataclysmic event forcing it upon us is not far away. The blokes destroying petrol pumps are trying to send that signal. Taking the car instead of the train or the bus is not sustainable. Importing endless amounts of useless plastic or techy shit is not sustainable. And while I rarely give a shit about it myself, I'm damn happy that someone is willing to take action, even if its small and primarly symbolic. Hopefully these guys are leading your country in the not too distant future.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Copied from Facebook, police post

Tandridge Beat (Surrey Police)

·
A total of 27 people are now in custody after being arrested on suspicion of criminal damage and aggravated trespass following protests at Clacket Lane and Cobham Services on the M25 earlier this morning (28 April).
The forecourt at Cobham Services, where 16 of the arrests were made, has now been cleared. Unfortunately some of the petrol pumps remain closed due to the damage caused to them. The protester who glued himself to the top of a lorry has also been safely removed.
Officers with specialist removal equipment are in the process of safely removing the remaining protesters from the forecourt at Clacket Lane. Once this has been done, the damage to the pumps can be properly assessed. 11 arrests have been made at the location so far.
We appreciate that this incident has been ongoing for some time and is causing considerable disruption but removing protesters who have glued themselves to vehicles and petrol pumps is a lengthy and complex process and has to be carried out using specialist equipment.
Please bear with us while we continue to deal with these ongoing incidents.

 

[BLOCK F]

Wind power is... not efficient. Great with the solar panels though. But none of this is enough.



As I've said before, the reason why they are "lagging behind" is because they are importing our problems. If we have a 100 environmental problems, we solve one and ship the rest abroad. China and Russia etc. are "dirty" because we are "clean".

If the smartphones of 70 millions UKanians would end up on the beaches of Brighton instead of some beach in Africa, you'd have a damn dirty beach. If you would produce 100% of your energy rather than importing 50%, you'd likely require dirty solutions. If you would produce 100% of your luxuary/unnecessary goods, your country would be filled with dirty factories, there wouldn't be a single God damn tree in your country and if you would produce 100% of your food, Falmer Stadium would probably be a farm rather than a stadium and anywhere you'd go it would probably smell of ammonia and manure. But you, just like us in Sweden, outsourced these problems. And thats great because then we can pat ourselves on the back, imagining "we're oh so good and green". But the environment and atmosphere really doesn't give much of a shit if the pollution from the mass consumption society has its source here or there. It all affects the global eco-system.

I agree that real lifestyle change is very difficult to achieve. It takes cataclysmic events that changes attitudes and/or technology, like a world war or digitalization. But unless it happens now, with rapid if not immediate pace, the cataclysmic event forcing it upon us is not far away. The blokes destroying petrol pumps are trying to send that signal. Taking the car instead of the train or the bus is not sustainable. Importing endless amounts of useless plastic or techy shit is not sustainable. And while I rarely give a shit about it myself, I'm damn happy that someone is willing to take action, even if its small and primarly symbolic. Hopefully these guys are leading your country in the not too distant future.

Well,I hope they aren’t, or if they are, I trust they will have grown up and take a practical and realistic approach to change.
Whilst I am well aware of the exporting of problems, that doesn’t account for the reluctance of the likes of China and Russia to wholeheartedly embrace the cutting of the use of fossil fuels.Perhaps they realise it can’t be done at the drop of a hat without screwing themselves, rather like the rest of the world. On the other hand, perhaps they don’t give a shit. Who knows.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Copied from Facebook, police post

Tandridge Beat (Surrey Police)

·
A total of 27 people are now in custody after being arrested on suspicion of criminal damage and aggravated trespass following protests at Clacket Lane and Cobham Services on the M25 earlier this morning (28 April).
The forecourt at Cobham Services, where 16 of the arrests were made, has now been cleared. Unfortunately some of the petrol pumps remain closed due to the damage caused to them. The protester who glued himself to the top of a lorry has also been safely removed.
Officers with specialist removal equipment are in the process of safely removing the remaining protesters from the forecourt at Clacket Lane. Once this has been done, the damage to the pumps can be properly assessed. 11 arrests have been made at the location so far.
We appreciate that this incident has been ongoing for some time and is causing considerable disruption but removing protesters who have glued themselves to vehicles and petrol pumps is a lengthy and complex process and has to be carried out using specialist equipment.
Please bear with us while we continue to deal with these ongoing incidents.

That could have been solved by driving the lorry to a garage and parking up overnight.