[News] Just Stop Oil

[Uter]

Obviously they themselves won't buy imported products or use central heating or drive fossil-fuel cars. They would be hypocrites if they did. Why don't they campaign on that basis - rather than protesting to make the government do what it's already doing, campaign so we can all make the same sacrifices they are presumably making? Why don't student unions protest about unnecessary heating in student lecture halls and accommodation - instead of minimum 18 degrees, make it 10, and wear thicker sweaters and fingerless gloves? It would be a meaningful gesture because it would show they are serious about making sacrifices for themselves rather than aiming to make other people suffer.

As I understand, Just Stop Oil's main objective is to get the government to commit to stopping any new fossil fuel licensing and production.

This would be an easy thing for any government truly committed to reducing emissions to get behind. It seems like an very low bar in terms of carbon emissions reduction.

Have the government pledged to do this? You seem to suggest they have already done this?

 

[A1X]

I hope the energy companies can afford to repair the damage. I expect Rishi will be cutting their tax to make sure they can patch it up.

 

[Machiavelli]

If you owned a business and became a target of fanatics smashing up your stuff, you would feel differently. A lot of hypocrisy here I'm afraid.

There is zero hypocrisy. So stop saying things you can't back up. You've posted a litany of drivel on this thread, all demonstrating that you're just a lackey for business-as-usual.
I don't own a business and, if I did, it would far more likely be in the renewables sector rather than the hydrocarbons.

 

[Swansman]

But it isn't though, is it? This isn't something that people don't know about and needs awareness raising. People aren't going to be swayed in their opinion because some youngsters commit criminal damage. Environmental awareness is growing and has been for years. Our company has a sustainability manager working on renewable energy and making us net zero. Electric car sales are up massively. Recycling is up massively.

I understand they are massively frustrated at the lack of progress but I cannot see their actions as anything other than counter productive. The only people happy with what they are doing are those that already supported the movement. This isn't a suffragette moment or even a Goldstone pitch invasion moment. Those incidents massively increased awareness of the cause. That is not the case here.

What indicates this awareness?

People keep driving when most could either take the train or the bus.

People keep buying a new phone every other year, they keep upgrading their televisions - not because they are broken but because they want to have a bigger screen - and all kinds of luxuary equipment that is pretty much never locally made, and requires energy to produce and import.

Looking at the consumption of luxuries and how people are always going go with the comfortable option rather than the enviromentally friendly one, there is very little indication of this "awareness".

If you owned a business and became a target of fanatics smashing up your stuff, you would feel differently. A lot of hypocrisy here I'm afraid.

And saying that "they're all just doing it for their own benefit" when this whole thing is about inconvenience of not having the luxuary to refuel your care isnt hypocrisy?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Really? As you can see, at the very least, it has started a debate. If this can focus a few extra minds on this topic it will have succeeded.

The debate is already happening anyway.

 

[dsr-burnley]

As I understand, Just Stop Oil's main objective is to get the government to commit to stopping any new fossil fuel licensing and production.

This would be an easy thing for any government truly committed to reducing emissions to get behind. It seems like an very low bar in terms of carbon emissions reduction.

Have the government pledged to do this? You seem to suggest they have already done this?

I have a strong suspicion that giving these people what they want today, would not stop them disturbing people's lives tomorrow. They would find another pretext for their actions..

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Really? As you can see, at the very least, it has started a debate. If this can focus a few extra minds on this topic it will have succeeded.

So says Mr Aeroplane!

Personally I’m in the Swanny minority here, I think it’s fantastic, but I say that as a non car driver, cyclist and train user and do appreciate that the plumbers, landscape gardeners and slightly out there (in a good way) university lecturers of NSC do need their vehicles.

 

[Swansman]

I have a strong suspicion that giving these people what they want today, would not stop them disturbing people's lives tomorrow. They would find another pretext for their actions..

I agree, activists will be activists. When those in Sweden who had fought for suffrage in Sweden won their battle, plenty of them moved on to demand 8 hour work days. And plenty of those who were involved in fighting for 25 days of vacation each year were also the same people fighting for the legalisation of homosexuality. Because some people fight for what they think is right, and that might be more than just one subjct.

All of this obviously disturbed the lives of business owners, Christians and the bourgeoisie, but I think today - retrospectively -a lot of people feel it might have been worth it.

 

[beorhthelm]

As I understand, Just Stop Oil's main objective is to get the government to commit to stopping any new fossil fuel licensing and production.

This would be an easy thing for any government truly committed to reducing emissions to get behind. It seems like an very low bar in terms of carbon emissions reduction.

Have the government pledged to do this? You seem to suggest they have already done this?

its not easy for government to do immediatly because of the impact to economy. the lights need to stay on, people need to get to work, people have jobs in the industry etc. the direction of travel is to reduce and remove licences in time. realistically in the future there will always be some needs for mineral oil lubricants and chemcial feedstock that cant be replaced with organics.

Just Stop Oil want everything to stop now. just one single narrow demand without care for consequence. like more imports, and less industry.

 

[Uter]

I have a strong suspicion that giving these people what they want today, would not stop them disturbing people's lives tomorrow. They would find another pretext for their actions..

I think they genuinely care about their cause. I don't believe they are hiding behind this as a pretext to smash things up or they are on some warped ego trip.

It's scary to think what impact climate change could have on my children's lives.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So says Mr Aeroplane!

Personally I’m in the Swanny minority here, I think it’s fantastic, but I say that as a non car driver, cyclist and train user and do appreciate that the plumbers, landscape gardeners, Albion supporters forced out of their own country and slightly out there (in a good way) university lecturers of NSC do need their vehicles.

Corrected for you.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I agree, activists will be activists. When those in Sweden who had fought for suffrage in Sweden won their battle, plenty of them moved on to demand 8 hour work days. And plenty of those who were involved in fighting for 25 days of vacation each year were also the same people fighting for the legalisation of homosexuality. Because some people fight for what they think is right, and that might be more than just one subjct.

All of this obviously disturbed the lives of business owners, Christians and the bourgeoisie, but I think today - retrospectively -a lot of people feel it might have been worth it.

And of course Luddites, Blackshirts, the Paedophile Information Exchange, Roundheads - you can't assume that activists are good just because they are active.

I'd always thought the Swedish women's suffrage movement was entirely peaceful. No?

 

[usernamed]

OK, I'll consider the humble battery. (Which Irena hasn't done in its costings.) I don't know how much it would cost me personally for a battery big enough to power my house and car for say 2 weeks in February when the sun isn't hot and the wind isn't blowing, but I bet it would be a fair chunk. And even if taken on a national basis, that much battery storage would cost a bomb. Stick that in the formula and see how cheap it is. I suspect you'll find that it would be cheaper to keep gas power stations on line but idle unless needed.

One good thing. If wind and solar are already cheaper than gas, then there is no need for the fossil fuels surcharge on the bills any more. As soon as we have enough renewable capacity plus batteries, then no-one will want to produce gas-fuelled electricity.

PS - I think it makes a difference that that report is talking about worldwide costs. Wouldn't we need to tow the UK nearer the equator to get the benefit?

Ok, here are some statistics from the U.K. government based on their calculations (so specific to the U.K. market)

https://assets.publishing.service.g...7/electricity-generation-cost-report-2020.pdf

Page 33 of the above shows the calculated cost estimates per MWh (it includes reference to a prior report in 2016) - note how significantly the cost estimates have dropped between 2016 and now. No guarantee that the drop will continue or be linear in nature, but all of the feedback I hear is that there’s still significant cost reductions available through economies of scale and further progressions in the technology.

Additionally, with regard to batteries, large battery arrays have been a thing for at least the last 6 years, and enabled areas where the energy mix has high concentrations of renewable to smooth out those gaps between generation and demand. Here’s a Tesla project (not in the U.K.) built in 2017 (and in 100 days I might add)

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/1...witches-on-gigantic-australian-battery-array/

The great thing about battery arrays is that they are technology agnostic. They don’t care where the power comes from, they’ll just store it until it’s needed.

I understand at present that there’s 1GW of battery arrays already live in the U.K., while 4GW of battery arrays were in the planning stage as of 2020. All of which begs the question, why is anyone looking at oil? It’s not just environmentally illiterate, it’s economically illiterate too.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I’m not sure the ask from “Stop the Oil” is excessive, it’s frankly bloody minded stupidity to not do what they’re suggesting we do.

They’re not suggesting shutting down what we have, just that we stop enabling the building of more. Given that we already have numerous alternatives that are cheaper and environmentally friendly, it’s slightly depressing that a protest group is even necessary.

I feel like the need to rebrand if this really is their aim. They'd get fired from the Apprentice for this kind of blunder, surely Stop More Oil is more appropriate. The vast majority must assume the same as below ↓↓↓↓↓

its not easy for government to do immediatly because of the impact to economy. the lights need to stay on, people need to get to work, people have jobs in the industry etc. the direction of travel is to reduce and remove licences in time. realistically in the future there will always be some needs for mineral oil lubricants and chemcial feedstock that cant be replaced with organics.

Just Stop Oil want everything to stop now. just one single narrow demand without care for consequence. like more imports, and less industry.

 

[BLOCK F]

Blimey, there are some weird buggers on this thread.
Hypocritical, deluded, condoners of law breaking criminals.
Rather reminds me of those MPs and Cabinet Ministers coming to the defence of those hypocritical, deluded law breakers in Number 10 Downing Street, and the opprobrium that some on here heaped upon them.
I dare say that had the squirming MPs of the Tory Party committed such criminal damage to property, those on here would quite rightly condemn their actions and have their pitchforks at the ready. But no, it is a bunch of smellies carrying out the wanton damage, so that is ok.
Slight tongue in cheek by me, but not entirely.

 

[usernamed]

I feel like the need to rebrand if this really is their aim. They'd get fired from the Apprentice for this kind of blunder, surely Stop More Oil is more appropriate. The vast majority must assume the same as below ↓↓↓↓↓

The headline couple of paragraphs on their website is:

“Just Stop Oil is a coalition of groups working together to ensure the Government commits to halting new fossil fuel licensing and production.

We demand that the government immediately halt all future licensing and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK.”

I agree their name doesn’t help them any, but nor really does smashing up fuel pumps at the motorway services.

 

[Swansman]

And of course Luddites, Blackshirts, the Paedophile Information Exchange, Roundheads - you can't assume that activists are good just because they are active.

I'd always thought the Swedish women's suffrage movement was entirely peaceful. No?

Nowt wrong with Luddites. You're right though, and you can't assume that activists are bad just because they are active and "disturbing" you. Comparing these people protesting the impotent dealings regarding environmental issues with "the Paedophile Information Exchange" is pretty rich.

It was peaceful but still a fight and if Sweden wasn't on the brink of revolution, forcing king Gustav V to accept pretty much every demand, the fight may well have developed into something more violent.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Ok, here are some statistics from the U.K. government based on their calculations (so specific to the U.K. market)

https://assets.publishing.service.g...7/electricity-generation-cost-report-2020.pdf

Page 33 of the above shows the calculated cost estimates per MWh (it includes reference to a prior report in 2016) - note how significantly the cost estimates have dropped between 2016 and now. No guarantee that the drop will continue or be linear in nature, but all of the feedback I hear is that there’s still significant cost reductions available through economies of scale and further progressions in the technology.

Additionally, with regard to batteries, large battery arrays have been a thing for at least the last 6 years, and enabled areas where the energy mix has high concentrations of renewable to smooth out those gaps between generation and demand. Here’s a Tesla project (not in the U.K.) built in 2017 (and in 100 days I might add)

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/1...witches-on-gigantic-australian-battery-array/

The great thing about battery arrays is that they are technology agnostic. They don’t care where the power comes from, they’ll just store it until it’s needed.

I understand at present that there’s 1GW of battery arrays already live in the U.K., while 4GW of battery arrays were in the planning stage as of 2020. All of which begs the question, why is anyone looking at oil? It’s not just environmentally illiterate, it’s economically illiterate too.

Drax power station produces 4GW per hour, which covers 6% of the UK's energy needs. So the 5GW battery array built or planned would store power for about 8 minutes. Work to be done there, I think.

How much would it cost and how much space would it take to build (say) a week's storage capacity?

 

[Swansman]

Blimey, there are some weird buggers on this thread.
Hypocritical, deluded, condoners of law breaking criminals.
Rather reminds me of those MPs and Cabinet Ministers coming to the defence of those hypocritical, deluded law breakers in Number 10 Downing Street, and the opprobrium that some on here heaped upon them.
I dare say that had the squirming MPs of the Tory Party committed such criminal damage to property, those on here would quite rightly condemn their actions and have their pitchforks at the ready. But no, it is a bunch of smellies carrying out the wanton damage, so that is ok.
Slight tongue in cheek by me, but not entirely.

Laws are not inherently good. I mean, what is in the phrase "law breaking criminals?"

Law breaking criminals, such as the black people who broke the laws that they had to sit in the back of the bus in the US? Law breaking criminals, such as those men who were homosexual in the UK before 1967? Law breaking criminals, such as those in Russia who are protesting the war? Law breaking criminals, like those of you who were invading the pitch some 25 years ago?

People who obey every law just because it is a law are just empty shells.

 

[British Bulldog]

If one of these idiots got rather hurt would they be happy to wait for a push bike or horse and cart ambulance to arrive?